Curse of the Crimson Throne for PF2e by DM Doctor Evil

Game Master DM DoctorEvil

I was thinking Ioca gets a full share — kinda of the adventurer social contract. Billi was hoping to break out 30gp for full plate which seems in the new budget selling all liquid items.

We may want to detect for magic.

I was thinking Ioca gets a full share — kinda of the adventurer social contract. Billi was hoping to break out 30gp for full plate which seems in the new budget selling all liquid items.

We may want to detect for magic.

I agree with Billi that we should detect for magic and take a moment inside to see if we can ID the scroll. Between Sable (Occult), Lenrelle (Divine), and Perivolt (Arcane), we have three of the four traditions covered, so it's just a peek at the scroll and an auto success to see what the scroll is. The only way we don't ID it is if's it primal, then we hand it to whoever can use it.

As far as Ioca getting a double share, while I'm not against it, I do tend to lean Billi's way here. Not just for that tends to be how adventurers work, but more practically, we may need the resources to get any gear we need, especially with what seems to be going on in the city.

If there were an IC vote, Sable would abstain.

Good points all round. OOC, I think Ioca getting a double share is a bit much, but that is what Talindra would do. Feel free to roleplay an objection :)

I think Sable has more pressing IC concerns at the moment!

On a side note, D. Evil, as Sable is a local, if, during the course of things, you want to have her/us run across people that she knows as victims of the fighting, that's fine with me.

The only reason I said double share, was his own, plus Talindra's who offered. He is not above accepting it...

LMK what you decide. You can investigate your items for magic/identify them while outdoors also. Things are breaking down, but there is no immediate threat.

I have a hard time feeling Sable, who has proven herself to be capable, needs more help seeing her family than getting injured and traumatized children in a safe environment escorted only by our capable rogue. We have been heavily biased to children safety till now. We don’t even know if we have a home for them. My friend is an emergency foster parent here in the US, I would not even let these children go in the care of one person in my home town to any social services office. Sorry if I let personal feelings intrude here too much.

That said, as a DM I have a bias against split parties. So I will take it on faith that the children are 100% safe traveling through a town in civil disorder with a single unintimidating escort.

Fret not, sir dwarf. While split parties are dangerous in dungeons and such, unless the GM contradicts me, I think we're purely narrative at this point, so different "parties" just limits to whom we can each speak during this period. Probably just spoiler territory for the next few posts. Alternatively, DM DoctorEvil can just GM narrate the whole thing and bring us back together after a beautiful story. :)

Aye, the narrative is definitely getting good. I would have thought it would be funny if Perivolt went down the sin magic and needed Billi the addict for advice on how to not to go too far chasing an addiction.

Sorry for some inattention. Went to GotG3 last night, had RL Pathfinder session this evening.

Will get caught up tomorrow.

Splitting up the group is not ideal, but we can make it work. I don't think there is a hand-wave coming up however.

Not sure I ever got a cohesive answer about the loot splitting. Ioca assumes and will take his own share. Right now, a one-sixth share is going to be 32 gp (rounding down).

I thought i read from the gameplay that Talindra was offering her share to Ioca for the care of the orphans. Is that accurate? If so, I will remove 64gp of stuff from the Loot Tracker, otherwise it will be just the 32gp.

I also thought someone wanted to detect magic on the items, but perhaps you have changed your minds about that?

Lastly, even though you leveled up, some of you still have HP wounds. Did you deal with those before going out into the riotous city?

Let's take a beat and level set before everyone goes off in different directions.

I do think we should ID the scroll before we split up and make sure whoever can use it has it.

Detect Magic, if Lenrelle or Perivolt has it, would also be pretty smart, I think.

I'd think Lenrelle and Talindra should hang on to the items we'll sell for that 32 GP each when we can since they'll likely be at the safest location. I'm also assuming that we can't go shopping yet, given the nighttime war zone we're all in :)

I thought i read from the gameplay that Talindra was offering her share to Ioca for the care of the orphans. Is that accurate? If so, I will remove 64gp of stuff from the Loot Tracker, otherwise it will be just the 32gp.

Yes, that's accurate. It is of vital importance that the orphans have as good a new start in life as they can. Life is not going to be easy for them, so the least she can do is make sure money won't be one of their worries for a little while.

Lastly, even though you leveled up, some of you still have HP wounds. Did you deal with those before going out into the riotous city?

I would have liked to, but the scene advanced a bit before I was able.

Let's take a beat and level set before everyone goes off in different directions.

Agreed. Since I'm responding here anyway and since it's all OOC, I'd like to clarify that Talindra's plan is to try to keep the rest of the group together as much as possible. Maybe bury Zellara's remains first, because I don't want to carry around a decomposing head while we do everything else, and then dropping off the children. She'll try to convince everyone of this plan. If you'd like to roleplay that part, I'm happy to do so, I just wanted to post this clarification here so we don't have more OOC posts in the gameplay thread.

I think we are splitting up as Billi doesn't have children, but he thinks they are priority one. Like my kids at Disneyworld we set a meeting place and time, we meet up at Perivolts estate in three days.

Billi consumed the elixir before the conflict with Lamm while we are bookkeeping. I had view only on spreadsheet or I would have removed it.

Apologies, family celebrations this weekend I may not be posting till monday

I think the meet-up time should be more of a play-by-ear/play-by-narrative, as we don't know what will happen next, and as Dr. Evil said, it does not look like there's going to be a hand-wave. I'm not saying it's a bad plan. Meet in three days at Perivolt's (or even one of the temples), is a good plan. I'm just saying that we should not assume it's going to be a 'three days have passed, and you're at Perivolt's.'

We also don't know that the Little Lambs are orphans. They might have people like Perivolt and Ioca looking for them as well. Getting them to a place of safety, I agree, is something the group should do, but we should not assume that they are orphans. Again, that's not a criticism of Talindra's plan to financially support them. It's just me pointing out we don't know much about them at this point, beyond the fact we saved them from Lamm.

As for Sable, she's going to try and check on her family. She'd feel that the Lambs were safe with the group and that the group could get them to a temple, or Perivolt's house, or some other place of safety, so she'd want to pet her own family first at the moment, with a plan, like Billi's, to meet back up.

Perivolt’s actions are “either/or.”

As far as I can tell, the 3 day thing was Billi wanting to do a movie scene. I don't see how that would be possible with the city literally falling apart and on fire. Can we not do that, please?

I was hoping to not split the group six ways, especially given the state of the city, but it seems people are set on splitting up in at least three different groups. =\ Can we please stick together?

Since Talindra agrees to give her share of the loot, and Ioca is taking his, I have removed 65gp of art items from the list. They weren't sold, and they haven't been made liquid yet, Ioca just took them, and will sell/trade them for the care of the orphans etc. He does not agree to have any of you come with him. He has this, and you have adventures to complete. They will be taken care of, its not something you have to roleplay on screen. If you are really dying to, then send me a PM. The only child left, unless Perivolt wants to let Ioca take him home also, is Graykos.

Three days in the circumstances the city is in is way too long. You can be gone from the group for an hour or so, and even then events are likely to overtake you.

I will link a map with the locations you are and some other key points noted, that may help decision making.

The map is her and at top margin for future use. You can see that Zellara's house and the Old Fishery are both in West Dock area, and not terribly far apart. if there are other points you wish to have indicated on the map, let me know

I hate to put it this way, but out of everyone here, Ioca and Perivolt are going to be the most motivated to hand deliver their raison d’etre (per campaign trait) of being involved in this lynch mob.

It’s just unreasonable to even expect Perivolt would even consider leaving his brother alone after just finding him, especially with the city in riot level turmoil.

I’ve written Perivolt attempting to convince everyone to go to Zellara’s and even providing a “reasonable” explanation for why Sable shouldn’t fear for her parents given the intention of the mob, and the relative distance between our location and Old Korvosa (if that’s where her parents are). Even without that being enough to sway people’s minds, I’ve also tried to introduce a relatively short delay between Perivolt’s escort and his return if the party does split.

While the artificial and meta game desire not to split the group is real in player mind, it is completely unreasonable in character. Sable wants to confirm her parents are safe in a riot. Ioca and Perivolt have just found the reason for the searches encompassing up to a year of their lives. The PCs have mostly just banded together for the first time less than 12 hours ago.

Would you not desire to get your brother/sister home or to the hospital over…um, uh…what exactly is the alternative again? Oh, nothing. Just “Let’s just stick together.” Guys, c’mon. Roleplay is still meant to be immersive and believable. If there’s really no choice to keep this going without asking Perivolt to sacrifice his natural and protective feelings, then perhaps he should just go ahead and exit the game and become a NPC. I can create a new character the party can encounter around the street corner after Perivolt leaves or DM DoctorEvil can invite one of the prior applicants if you don’t prefer me to continue.

PM to DM DoctorEvil about “time in CoCt” to prevent spoilers.

I’m happy compromising and accompanying you and Ioca to make sure your brother and sister are okay. The only problem I had was carrying a decaying head around with us. I’m happy to go with you otherwise! I would hate to see the party split up, permanently, because of a disagreement like this. I am so, so sorry that it’s gotten this far.

I’ve done my best to provide in game explanation and reasonable argument which was just dismissed by Sable without literally a word. And that’s fine. Sable’s RPing she isn’t convinced or her urge to protect her parents and family. Just like Perivolt.

As far as the head, Zellara’s house should basically be the destination as was suggested. Perivolt’s plan to go all the way to the Ornelos estate was merely if he was being left with NPC Ioca and the rest of you were going with Sable. If everyone is going with Perivolt, Zellara’s is the destination while we wait for Sable’s return. And this would be a player assumption. In character, Perivolt would actually not expect Sable to come back since that would be a reasonable response with this going on, but if she does, great surprise!

At some point Perivolt would like to see to the delivery of his brother personally, and then he’s free to return to the party or they can accompany him. He’s mostly just against going with Sable since Old Korvosa is really far away and it would be much easier to deliver his brother before making that trek.

Everything you’ve said here makes sense. I’m sorry, I must not have communicated well. Under no circumstance did I plan to or want to suggest that the rest of the party goes with Sable. I was figuring she’d be fine on her own and the rest of us could handle the business we have and meet up with her after. Again, I am so, so sorry that this has become so tense. It sounds like you and I are in agreement on all points, in-character and out? If not, please know that I want to be. If I have said something that disagrees with you, then I was being dumb and that was not my intent.

So Sable left and headed over the bridge to her parents. Understandable.

Ioca, Perivolt and Billi were going to get the kids to safety. Understandable.

Lenrelle and Talindra, after Sable left, said let's go bury Zellara. I assumed it was Talindra and Lenrelle, as Sable was gone. Now that we find out it is 1000 feet away and a very short errand, understandable.

Billi picked a place to meet up and a time that was too long. Taking traumatized children to bury a dismembered head seems a stretch.

Can we have Billi, Perivolt and Ioca take the kids to a sanctuary, have Lenrelle and Talindra bury the head with sacred rites and head to the sanctuary, and Sable visit her parents and knowing Korvosa find the group later? Maybe even Billi can build a single bunk bed and a single toy mining cart waiting for them to return.

It could actually be a therapeutic event for them. We could explain we’re burying someone hurt by Gaedran Lamm who has been denied proper burial. Then we could ask if they have any friends who are not coming back because of Lamm and encourage them to “bury” their former friends with Zellara and her son. Whether it’s via surrogate items Billi helps them make or actual tokens they have kept, could be a strong method to help them bury the dark past they’ve had and help them realize this whole ordeal is really over. Lamm won’t ever threaten them again.

Ioca is taking the rest of the kids (not Graykos) away. Its more than a plot point, it gives the departing player a mission, and takes care of the need to deliver them anywhere. Feel free to go see them after if you wish, and you can build them all kinds of bunkbeds or whatever during down time.

It seems then, that everyone but Sable is going to Zellara's house first. Other stops can be made after. Sable is trekking across the city to Old Korvosa by herself, that may or may not be without consequence.

Your group should easily be able to meet up either that night or next morning. So I don't see a permanent split as a concern right now. Appreciate everyone working on a solution, and I think the character motivations are part of the chaos of the scene.

I believe I am ready to move the story forward.

I also want to say I am not intending a permanent split. From Sable's perspective, the choices were:

a) Check on her family in the middle of a riot; or
b) Carry the rotting head of a ghost who at least somewhat lied to us to her house and bury it.

For her, the choice was easy, even though, as a player, I realize it's a bit of a PITA.

But for clarity, Sable fully intends to link back up with the group probably the next day.

I didn't think Sable was going off on her own forever, for what it's worth. It sounds like any issues we've had over the weekend have, in all seriousness, been a huge misunderstanding. Glad to crack on with the game now we've clarified things. :)

In the heart of the Midlands we can probaby get to one of the three magic shops easily to transfer runes. I am not sure how the Midlands is set on armor shops except for outfitting griffins.

Finally, I think the wand of magic missiles would be the once a day magic wand type in 2e worth 60gp?? Perivolt seems the only one that can use it.

Does anyone want to use a hand crossbow as a primary weapon? we can ask Sable when she returns. The dagger rune seems a prime candidate to move to another weapon.

We have learned in another game, to our dismay, that assurance does not include ability modifiers. Our second level cleric get trained +2 plus 2 level + 10 for a 14. And our fighter can't add his +4 str to his athletics assurance leaps.

We have learned in another game, to our dismay, that assurance does not include ability modifiers. Our second level cleric get trained +2 plus 2 level + 10 for a 14.

Oh #@$# me! Pardon.. I appreciate being told it's just very frustrating.

Can we say she used Guidance then? SO she could make the 15?

Billi's correct. Assurance only adds the proficiency modifier, which is training level plus character level. It doesn't add any attribute bonuses, item bonuses, or anything like that. It also doesn't include penalties, though those are much more rare. But they can happen. For instance, a GM can increase the Treat Wounds DC if the conditions are terrible, say treating wounds in the middle of a swamp. In that case, Assurance would not get that penalty, so it balances out.

It basically trades out the roll for the assurance that a person won't crit fail. For Treat Wounds, at 3rd level, you can ensure the baseline healing. In my experience in the TT game I run, the players still prefer to roll. They'd rather risk the crit fail to have a chance at the crit success.

Sadly, the assurance cast in exploration mode would have to come from another character doing the repeat spell

I was not aware of these rules around Assurance. Does that mean that Guidance or the similar buffs don't add to it either? Seems like they would to me.

Because Treat wounds is an exploration activity, unless someone else was repeating spell guidance, (which I think would work for ten minutes straight of treat wounds), guidance would not work. It would have to be a repeated spell.

When battlefield medicine is used, making treat wounds an encounter action, I think it can be modified by encounter spells like guidance.

We had an experienced 2e player join our group, and he explained how assurance is situational. Now the skill feat continual recovery (2nd) to do continual medicine checks is amazing--we just held off using assurance medicine till level 3 cleric. When critically failing an athletics check is bad or you need to predict exactly how far you can jump, we are still finding assurance athletics for monks and barbarians worthwhile.

That seems overly rigid to me. I would likely allow Guidance (or any other spell) to be used in exploration mode, and assume the timing was right to make it work.

RAW, Guidance would not work because there is no roll. Assurance removes the roll and gives a 10. Of course, a GM can always modify rules as he sees fit :)

Assurance seems to me to be intended to allow someone who is decent at something to always succeed at something routine. Like, for instance, jumping has a DC equal to how far you want to jump. If, say, as Billi mentioned, a monk wants to jump a gap and can make it on anything except a 1 or 2, Assurance is great. You remove the crit fail chance. But, if it's something hard, then Assurance tends not to be as good, though even then, it can be useful.

At least at my tables, players haven't wanted to use Assurance with Treat Wounds because they want to try and get the crit. Since the DCs are flat and known, and the player chooses which to go for, once they are above trained, it's easy to tell how likely you are to succeed; my players almost always choose to roll the dice since crits really spike the healing up.

Like a lot of things in PF2E, it's situational if you use Assurance or not.

My purpose to get it was to avoid the failures, particular the crit failures as bad dice were hitting right and left consistently. At this level, her hitting the crit with assurance and Guidance would be unpossible (IF guidance were allowed).

I don't blame any of you for MY poor selection of feats, it's just this currently appears to be a poor choice on my part... by the rules. Oh sure, Lenrelle can never fail a medicine roll, but barring ideal situations , it would mean she can never succeed at hitting that DC 15. In a level that changes. I get that. But for now, as rules state, it would be useless at level 2, and finding that out was very disappointing.

I appreciate DM Dr. Evil's leniency in this. After this, I'll just roll and wait for third level if folks think it's truly game breaking.

Funny enough, I think I did find out a way to get a plus one that's not contested. For 50 gold one can buy an Expanded Healer's Kit that gets a +1 "to such checks". I had not meant Lenrelle to be big on treasure but she just found reason to save her pennies.

Lenrelle, you are doing an amazing job. I would say the assurance feat throws many for a loop. There is an Otari background that comes with Assurance Medicine that led two of our PCs to have it. The wizard with the 12 Wisdom is less disappointed about the "changes" we had to impose when we learned no stat modifier than the 18 wisdom cleric.

And, when we are flush with money, I would suggest party healing buffs be paid with party funds. My most successful 1E group paid for healing wands and a phylactery of channeling for the cleric out of party funds.

*eyes the Nat 1 Len just rolled*

Paranoia intensifying

My purpose to get it was to avoid the failures, particular the crit failures as bad dice were hitting right and left consistently.

"More than slight. I've been neglectful." Lenrelle moves to Perivolt next.

Just a plain jane treat wounds roll.

Rolls Natural 1

Oh, the irony! Don't worry, Perivolt's a big boy. Hopefully, Lenrelle won't kill him with this...right in front of his young half-brother. :P

Nope. Spent the Hero point (Thank you, DM) so I didn't have Lenrelle throwing away her healing kit and going on a pilgrimage to find out how she had offended her goddess.

:)

I undid my plate armor as buying it was harder than I thought.

Looks like weapons rune transfer or purchase may be easier and hefty hauler may not be needed.

No one knows if you'll have any money left anyway, so no sense counting and spending it in this environment.

Not rolling for city knowledge since I don't have any relevant skills and I don't want a crit fail to result in misdirection. Korvosa's dangerous enough even without the current calamity that I don't want to confidently lead the group down a blind alley into something even worse than we've seen so far.

Sorry, but I notice that some folks went up a level but proportionality got more wounded. Wouldn't we get some positive hitpoints from going up second level rather than it being yet more 'wounds' we need to heal?

EDIT: Ah, I see our good DM posted . Thanks!

I’m not going to argue with a full heal, but I’m looking at the rules for levelling up in the CRB and it says nothing about healing. Reminds me of leveling up in angband and seeing the @ for my character suddenly turn orange / red because I gained so many HP that I’m now “seriously hurt”.