Council of Thieves (Inactive)

Game Master Molech

We can go ahead and start going over more Campaign Flavor stuff and character creation stuff.

Reporting for duty (via taskmaster Voice of Awesomeness).

What Unchained alternate rules do you usually like? (just out of curiosity)

I am teh here!

I don't think I'll be making a 1st level version of Vulpiano, as my hope is to create a new member of House Arvanxi. That said, the goal of possibly joining the CoT is still a possibility.

Ray, do you think we can accomplish this overall concept without more or less playing an 'evil' game?

I prefer the Unchained Classes presented in the book.

Regarding Consolidated Skills, I 'consolidated' them before Unchained was published and got used to it my way -- tinkering with it for each new campaign -- until it is what it is now. I am posting them here Wednesday; I hope you like them.

Alignment:
It's definitely something I've been on the look out for. The published text does assume you're good guys. But a pro-Cheliax group of LE PCs looks like it will work better, 'So Ling As--' ... and I just gotta make sure I see the monkey-wrenches ahead of time so I'm not caught unawares.

Reporting for duty (via taskmaster Voice of Awesomeness).

What Unchained alternate rules do you usually like? (just out of curiosity)

Ray is the GM I got the Knowledge: Society from for our game :)

Another question, which maybe got missed in our back n forth PMs:

Are you okay with material from the Campaign Setting and Player Companion line of books?

Regarding allowed sources, I think it's wise in PbP to limit the allowable resources to the books that I know thoroughly so there aren't any surprises in this or that PC's build and abilities. We were tentatively agreed upon players trying to use Core, APG, UM, ACG, UI, ARG, Unchained and 'New Paths Compendium.' (notably no UC or UE - or OA) But if you have a character in mind that wants a Feat or Spell from a book I don't know I will really try to allow it. Just please go over how it actually looks in gameplay (Let's not forget your PC is already Gestalt and in a campaign that was published at the dawn of Pathfinder -- with only Core and Bestiary 1 resources available to either player or DM.). The most important things are 1) The players are roughly equal to each other; no one PC is ridiculously better than the others. 2) The DM is aware of what your abilities are in a given situation.

Hiya.

Is UC ultimate combat or ultimate campaign? And I'm assuming no psionics.

Anybody know of an online reference to the new paths compendium? I'd like to look at it before buying the obsolete herolab version.

I can answer any questions you have regarding 'New Paths.'
I highly recommend it. It's not as well designed as the Classes in the ACG, granted, but the Classes are designed very well. (I always forget to say 'Expanded Edition.' I didn't know at the time the one I was sponsoring as a Kickstarter was 'Expanded' -- I was just chit-chatting with Marc and Wolf at PaizoCon at the time and Marc encouraged me to become a patron. I did it just to support Marc, help out a long-time gamer buddy trying to make it in the industry. But when I got it, holy moly, such a great resource.

New Paths Compendium *Expanded Edition*

UC is Ultimate Combat. I hate that book. Sorry about the confusion. .... I can honestly say I don't think I've ever read anything on Ultimate Campaign -- it was never a book I felt I needed to even look at, let alone purchase.

Regarding Occult Adventures (I assume that's what you're talking about regarding Psionics.): I finally bought the PDF a few years ago, but honestly, haven't really looked at it. My hesitancy in allowing it is simply my own ignorance. I am completely ignorant of the content. I've DMed a few PFS Scenarios at conventions where someone had an Occult Class PC but, hey, it's PFS. And in our Homegame, Mike Johnson was DMing a ToEE/Slavelords campaign and one of our buddies played a 'Something' Class from OA. If memory serves he was a Mesmerist. But I just don't know enough to know whether this or that PC build from OA is grossly unbalanced or not. And I wouldn't know what the PC does/can do. It's my fault.

Skills:

My Skills 'consolidation' predates the publication of Unchained, and I've tinkered with it (with the suggestions of players at the gaming table) at the start of most new campaigns. This most recent version is the result of an attempt to make all of the consolidated Skills at least somewhat balanced. I look forward to reading your feedback.

One of the new things is my attempt to wrestle the relevant-Ability-Score-modifier into balance. Now, there are 6 Skills each for DEX, CHA, INT and WIS. (STR has 2 Skills, but, hey, what can you do; it's STR.) The only really awkward thing (and one of the players in my homegame just ignores it, no biggie), is that I've made Appraise a WIS Skill instead of an INT Skill. Just so that INT has 6 and WIS has 6 (instead of 7 & 5). I try to justify it by arguing, 'Hey, when you look at a diamond or a wondrous item to try to figure out its value, it's kinda like a Perception. Kinda like a Sense Motive seeing what someone will pay.' I dunno. Still a bit shallow.

Here are some highlights:

Appraise: (WIS) You attempt an Appraise check on everything you will sell, whether they be mundane items such as the masterwork longswords you got from the Hobgoblins you just murder-hoboed, the diamonds & gold you looted from that poor old man's grave, or the extra Cloaks of Resistance (since everyone already has one), and +3 Trident no one really wants, or the useless Wand of Shatter with 23 charges that you'd Much rather have the money for so you can finally add Keen to your +1 Greatsword. .... The standard value of an item is half what the Core says. If you get a great Appraise check, you add to that amount. Get a crappy appraise check and get a little less than half of the published price. (This actually, Finally, makes Appraise a good skill. It's untrained, and, yeah, it makes it balanced with the other Skills. ...*I think*)

Investigate: (CHA) This is the old 'Gather Information' Skill that was separate from 'Diplomacy' back in 3rd Edition. Pathfinder made it part of the Diplomacy Skill. I always just felt Gather Information was a good Skill, separate from Diplomacy. I mean, a Rogue-like PC may not be the party 'Face' but could be a good gatherer of info on the down-low in the city. Diplomacy just felt odd there. And the Paladin may be great at Diplomacy for charismatically talking to the Duke or the Captain of the Guard, but 'Gathering Info' on street rumors of the sewer Wererats? Or the blackmarket poison merchant? Gather Info should be a separate Skill from Diplomacy. (but still CHA, absolutely) And in the WotC game it's called "Investigate" instead of "Gather Info" so, yeah, "Investigate" sounds better.

Spellcraft: (varies by Class) In Unchained they combine Spellcraft (INT) with Use Magic Device (CHA) as one Consolidated Skill. Makes sense when you're consolidating Skills. Here, if you're a WIS caster then you use your WIS modifier to recognize the Spell, copy the Scroll, activate the Wand, or turn off the Artifact for a round or two. Since, you know, your Casting ability is Divinely gifted to you from Sarenrae. Or Pharasma. You use your Wisdom to talk to plants and channel healing magic. So you use your Wisdom to recognize that my BBEG is casting Energy Drain at your face. If you were a Sorcerer it would be your CHA. And if you're a Witch it'd be your INT. (It hasn't happened yet but if you have two Casting Classes, say a Gestalt Life Oracle & Reincarnated Druid, you'd just use whatever is greater, CHA or WIS.)

I also use Background Skills from Unchained.

I'll get my complete 'consolidated' Skills list to you all soon, probably within a few minutes after posting this. But it may take a wee bit longer.

Hi Ray, thanks for offering to lead this game!

I'm considering it very seriously, and have a few Qs. I'd like to understand a bit more about what'll bring us together, and what kinds of motivations would(n't) be a good fit.

You mentioned that the AP usually assumes a good party, but that you can see other directions too. I'll go on record as someone who often has trouble getting excited in the long term for evil parties and evil goals. (I like the idea of the novelty, but in practice I find I often lose motivation). That said, I'm open to trying something with great folks.

New Paths Compendium *Expanded Edition*

By the way, I happened to notice that it's available for $3.60 right now, from the Kobold Press site.

The reason I was asking about the above book lines is that there are several that add more interesting character options for an urban/intrigue game.

Obviously, they aren't *necessary* since as you said, the AP was originally released when only Core existed. That said, there's a lot of classes that you're allowing that lack class options more suited to this sort of game unless supplemental books are used.

For example, right now I am *considering* an Alley Witch and a Shaman with the Slums spirit.

Edit: However, if either(or both) of those options don't work, I have another concept that I believe could work fine with the approved list of sources. And actually, I might decide to go with that instead, but we'll see.

Correction: that sweet $3.60 price is only as an *add-on* if you're buying a physical book from them.

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Another couple Qs:

1) Do you allow the variant Tiefling and Aasimar heritages?
2) Would a Paladin be a bad fit here? If I played one, it might likely be a Rogue | Paladin of Chaldira Zuzaristan (who has an interesting code and certainly wouldn't play as Lawful Stupid...but still, I know there are some games/parties where a Paladin is a poor fit. If that's the case...no worries at all; I have several ideas I'm chewing on. Just wondering if this is one I should eliminate.

Edit, chatted with MG who said Pali is probably a poor fit here.

Sadly, I'd have to buy the PDF and the Herolab version. A bit steep for one game. If I could find the class info online, I'd be okay with just buying the herolab if something struck me. Right now I'm not having anything jump out at me. Of course, my muse may wake me in the middle of the night, but right now I'm drifting.

@ Gyr Falcon,
Regardless of group Alignment, group 'togetherness' will be mandated. I don't play if other players work against each other. The PCs will be expected to make decisions as a team, share info, and share treasure.

I'm playing with a kinda Players' Guide for our game that will give us all a feel for the campaign. It will have possible Macguffins and such to get PC ideas started and the group together. And we'll share dialogue here. Note: I haven't even read the whole AP yet, so there's some time.

@ Monkeygod,
Alley Witch & Slums Spirit are good. There are two spells I don't recognize in Alley Witch; I'll look them up. I've always been a fan of Slums Spirit. (In Westcrown, many pale caracal cats run feral in the streets.)

@ Philo Pharynx,
New Paths is a great book of new Classes but you certainly don't need to go out of your way to get a copy.

@ Gyr Falcon,
We can wait and see how the group starts to form before making a final decision on Paladins. I think the Big key is going to be that the group is together in support of one of the Noble Houses of Westcrown, Arvanxi. Or something like that -- a handful of PCs who support X in Westcrown. Also, I have absolutely no problem -- in fact I encourage it if the player likes the idea -- with this campaign featuring a LE Paladin of, hmm, Mephistopheles or Mammon or Dispater or something. Aura of Law, Detect and Smite Chaos, yada yada. But again, let's see how we want the group to get together first.

Tiefling & Aasimar Heritages are great. We'll get to PC stuff soon, I promise.

What do y'all think of the Skills Homebrew?

Specialized skills seem cool. The skills list is not overly reduced by the bare consolidation, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I think I see where all of the traditional skills fit, except Engineering. Would that fall under crafting now, or perhaps profession?

Engineering would be a Profession, yes.

Thumbs up on the skills. I may need to twist a bit to get them in HeroLab, but it shouldn't be too hard.

Specialized skills seem cool. The skills list is not overly reduced by the bare consolidation, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

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I remember first seeing the Unchained consolidated list and at first really liking it -- made me wonder whether I should scrap my Homebrew all those years ago. But I just think it goes way too far. The Rogue gets absolutely demolished! It's really bad. Back in the day, having 8 Skills per Level (and 6 for a Bard) was a real power bump. Rogues with all the Skills could really shine just on that part of the game. But Unchained makes it so there's only 12 Skills total. WTF? Now Rogue may as well just be a one-trick, Precision-attacking Pony.

I think a greater accomplishment is the effort made to balance the Skills a little more. So many Skills from the original d20 system are SOOO useless. (While Perception is so important it ought to be the Seventh Ability Score!!!!)

But it is what it is.

Most players, upon seeing my list, initially frown at seeing Lore of Undead being put into Arcane. But I just think it makes the most sense, logically, and more importantly, for an attempt at game balance within the Skills.

What do y'all think of the Skills Homebrew?

As a fan of skillful characters, I rather like it, a lot. Of course, I already knew some of it from prior games with you, but it's nice to see the finished product.

Speaking of, I believe I am going to change my above concept. I am now thinking of a Phantom Thief U. Rogue and an Urban Infiltrator Inquisitor, assuming that archetype is approved, since it's from Magic Tactics Toolbox.

Okay folks,....

I've added some good chunks of material into the 'Campaign Info' tabs; I guess you can read them in any order but obviously I put them in a particular order. Um, I still have to edit for syntax and grammar.

I started to really go to town on some of the tabs, then had to reign it in -- too many Spoilery lead-ins.

But it's a great addition to the published Players' Guide, which I recommend.
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I see four good lead-ins to the campaign, and you may come up with others -- we can certainly find ways to combine/mix-and-match:

1) A Noble House: You guys are all strong supporters (even members) of one of Westcrown's Noble Houses. Then, as a group that is supporting the elevation of that House's influence and power, you go through the AP.

2) Council of Thieves: You guys are all wannabe members of The Council of Thieves, either minor nobles of various Houses who want to make a name for yourself other than just 'one-more-second-cousin-twice-removed', or, you guys are non-nobles who figure a roguish life in the Council of Thieves (working for secretive, disgruntled Nobles) is better than being a peasant who's going to get conscripted into military service or something.

3) Westcrown's Children: You guys are all goody-goodies (or um, 'Neutral-neutrals*?*) who want to rage against the machine and bring back Westcrown's prosperity after 100 years of Thrune's rule. (Or I guess 70 years since the civil war was 30.) This is the assumption of the canonical AP. Y'all are 'The Children of Westcrown.' Um. It's not a well liked macguffin among Paizo's APs. In fact, it's pretty universally disliked. I mean, this isn't Hell's Rebels, you know.

4) The Darklight Sisterhood: You guys are all aspiring members of The Darklight Sisterhood. This one can be done because of Paizo's intent, back in the day, to encourage players in APs to join PFS. But since you're not exactly good guys closing the Worldwound, stopping a RuneLord, or, you know, overthrowing House Thrune and The Nine Hells (even a little bit), yeah, Darklight Sisterhood would work better than Pathfinder Society.

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Anyway, here begins our discussion on what we want the group of PCs to be.

In any case, or with a mix of those options, I can stay pretty true to the published AP.

This is all useful. Thanks both for the hooks and the background info!

Sounds like we'll be some variant of morally grey folks looking out for our own (and each others') self interests/power...and maybe also some/all trying to advance House Arvanxi.

Seem right?

Ray, any concerns about Ratfolk? It's not 100% crucial to my concept, but I have a morally grey ratfolk witch I've played and enjoyed before, who would be fun to revive/explore more. Would probably gestalt to alchemist, to get more mileage from my cauldron. ;-)

Also: any sense of build rules yet? Point buy, gold, HP?

Thanks!

I have no problems with Ratfolk.
(It's been a looong time since I saw a PC Ratfolk. Indeed, thinking about it I think I've only ever seen them in PFS, you know, the cliché 'Hey-the-best-choice-for-PFS-Wizard-is-Ratfolk-so-I'll-invent-some-Baroque- backstory-to-make-it-seem-like-Ratfolk-was-a-Flavor-choice-and-not-a-Crunch -choice' gimmick that we saw in PFS for a few years.)
It'll be nice to see a Ratfolk again.

Monkeygod and I are both really hoping for some kind of angle where the PCs decide to be in the House Arvanxi corner. At least a little bit -- if not all in.

(We both really like House Arvanxi and want to find Gameplay opportunities to build it up again.)

What we'll do for character generation and Houserules is thus: I'll post all my baggage and y'all can decide what you like and what you don't like.
You may decide to keep a couple of my Houserules and discard the others. Or just go RAW -- except of course for Skills.

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Friday, Saturday and Sunday I will be focusing ALL of my free time on prep for my Sunday night homegame. My PCs are leaving Korvosa for Sandpoint in a race to find 'The Aasimar in Sandpoint' before a meteor up in the sky crashes into Varisia. Little do they know that the Aasimar in Sandpoint is a little girl named Nualia who, compounded with many other awkward moments in her troubled childhood, will be further traumatized by a group of Korvosan hero-adventurers who smash into town one day and focus all their Perception Checks looking for her. (Something like that happens to a kid and she may just grow up to worship Lamashtu or something.)

Anyway, I have to do some prep for that game. One of the PCs is a Life Oracle of Aroden and is anxious to learn about Aroden from Sandpoint's Aroden-faithful. So I gotta flesh that out. And another PC is a H-Orc who believes her ancestors used to tame and ride Dragons (turns out it was just Drakes, she will discover), and an NPC in Sandpoint is going to give her a book on "The Known Dragons of Varisia" that I'm still putting together as a handout. So, you know, typical DM prep. Gotta customize the game for the interests of the players before you let your pet Balrog kill them all.

1) A Noble House: You guys are all strong supporters (even members) of one of Westcrown's Noble Houses. Then, as a group that is supporting the elevation of that House's influence and power, you go through the AP.

2) Council of Thieves: You guys are all wannabe members of The Council of Thieves, either minor nobles of various Houses who want to make a name for yourself other than just 'one-more-second-cousin-twice-removed', or, you guys are non-nobles who figure a roguish life in the Council of Thieves (working for secretive, disgruntled Nobles) is better than being a peasant who's going to get conscripted into military service or something.

3) Westcrown's Children: You guys are all goody-goodies (or um, 'Neutral-neutrals*?*) who want to rage against the machine and bring back Westcrown's prosperity after 100 years of Thrune's rule. (Or I guess 70 years since the civil war was 30.) This is the assumption of the canonical AP. Y'all are 'The Children of Westcrown.' Um. It's not a well liked macguffin among Paizo's APs. In fact, it's pretty universally disliked. I mean, this isn't Hell's Rebels, you know.

4) The Darklight Sisterhood: You guys are all aspiring members of The Darklight Sisterhood. This one can be done because of Paizo's intent, back in the day, to encourage players in APs to join PFS. But since you're not exactly good guys closing the Worldwound,...

Alright, so personally, I can actually see the first 3 fitting to varying extents, and the 4th possibly working as well:

1) I plan to make another member of House Arvanxi, and the other players are aware of this and support it as well. However, as we're both aware, the House is on the decline, and the elder members(especially Aberian) are to blame. Which leads me to

2) I think my PC would want to make a name for himself outside of the House, but for Arvanxi. Or rather, what it could become again. Joining the CoT or at least working with/through them might be a good route to take. Of course, if the various highers up are also overly corrupt and useless, they should probably be removed.

3) As I said to you privately, and also to the group in discord, while I wouldn't want to overthrow Thrune, restoring Westcrown to former glory(but still under the rule of Thrune) is definitely an overall goal for my vision/version of Arvanxi.

4) I could easily see tying in the DLS somehow as well. I don't think my PC would be a member, but perhaps one of the others could be?

OK great, I'm pretty excited. Tiknesr Th'th'th'th'slifp's first incarnation was in a homebrewed Worldwound game (started before WotR came out) and he was created at L10...but I like the idea of refreshing him with a new backstory, straight from L1.

Expect a Witch / Alchemist from me. It seems like a really great gestalt combo. By the way, I found the Sleep hex overpowered when I played him, so I'm inclined to houserule it to not exist...but let me know your thoughts. At any rate, he'll do his best to avoid the front lines, but will have a nice mix of hexes / bombs / spells to debuff and control the battlefield a bit. And the INT to master all the Lore skills...and being small and dextrous, he'll be able to tag along in a stealthy group without being too much of a nuisance.

Also...I assume we're starting at L1, but should ask that too!

Re Ratfolk: How common are they in your Cheliax? (Is there community of them in Westcrown's sewers?) I know there's plenty of prejudice in Chelaix; where are they in the social heirarchy?

Re motivation: He's mostly interested in gaining power and esoteric knowledge. Would want to join/start/eventually lead a coven. Like any good ysoki, Tiknesr understands that you die fast if you don't take care of your swarm-mates. He knows he's squishy, and wants to have less-squishy friends who count on him, so that he can count on them. It's possible he could begin with an inclination to help House Arvanxi, and perhaps is employed by the House? I'm quite sure he'll never be Chelaxian nobility...but perhaps running a powerful behind-the-scenes coven? Could certainly see him in the DLS as well.

(While Perception is so important it ought to be the Seventh Ability Score!!!!)

PF2e didn't make it a stat, but it's a seperate class feature that you don't need to spend skill ranks on.

I expect that ratfolk would be oppressed in Cheliax.

But I can see a few ways to get around this.

1) Have enough style and Charisma to become a unique oddity.
2) Have enough stealth to shadow the party without being seen
3) Pretend to be a servant or slave to another PC in some situations.
4) Get two other ratfolk and a trenchcoat.

Do we have an ETA for finalized character creation rules?

Trenchcoat it is! ;-)

----EDIT----

In seriousness, yes, I think I'd make sense as either an employee of House Arvanxi or of the Darklight Sisterhood. Some organization that helps me mitigate the prejudice, at least when I've got official business, or am in a group.

Foolishly taking a few moments away from prep....

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* I have no problem with Sleep Hex whatsoever. There will be times when your Sleep Hex will win the day practically before we even roll Initiative and the PCs can cheer, 'Hip Hip, Hooray!' There will be plenty of other times when a Ghost or Black Pudding or Clockwork-Rust Monster or Elf Assassin will laugh at you maniacally (you think black puddings can't laugh maniacally?!) for being useless. The Funny thing there will be if you -- or an ally who goes before you in Initiative doesn't holler out -- don't have enough Lore of the Arcane to know that that thing lurching toward you is an Undead and is thus Immune to your Hex. That's when I get to laugh maniacally at you for wasting your Standard Action to try to put my Dude to Sleep, who ain't gonna go to Sleep! (Remember to play your PC appropriately.) .... Ultimately, also remember that to awaken someone from a Sleep Hex is a Standard Action so I may have a Mook or Familiar or something that can wake me up before you go-go. So, yeah, Sleep Hex is very welcome in my game -- and a very useful Hex it is, too.

* Seeking esoteric knowledge works out very well in this campaign (cuz Paizo wanted to promote/bake-in PFS). You may decide that you like the idea of your Ratfolk PC ('Ray quickly looks up the word, "yoski"; Ahh, okay.') having a little background of being told, 'No, you're a rodent -- we don't want walking, flea-bag-diseased, rats joining our Darklight Sisterhood' and decide to have a chip on your shoulder, get something to prove to Cheliax's lore-finder/ archaeologists that they should have courted you to join them and now they're begging for you to join. Or something. Build what you want; we'll find a way!

* I'm going to get character Crunch out probably Monday or Tuesday. This weekend I have to do prep for my Sunday night game. (Mondays are often very busy for me.)

Also, everyone, please send me a PM of the various Spoilers, itty-bitty and big, that you may have heard or bumped into over the years. I can try to get that knowledge to you in-game quickly so it doesn't interfere with revelations and roleplay -- and I can tinker with things so there's still maybe a surprise or twist: 'Wow, I knew Joe-Bob NPC was a secret worshipper of Demogorgon but when it was revealed he was also a Beholder in disguise, Wow!' -- or some such nonsense. Even stuff like, 'I heard volume 2 sucks,' or something. It always helps me out.

Catching up (had a hectic end of the week)...

Lead-ins: I like those hooks. I can see us pick a main lead-in but then individual characters mixing and matching a bit along the way to that shared lead-in. E.g., for #1 I like a background involving the character being trained as some sort of secret weapon against other noble house, and perhaps some or much of that training had been provided by the Darklight Sisterhood #4). A secret weapon trained for House Arvanxi but who becomes Darklight-curious along the way as they plant the seeds for a defection? Still vaguely thinking Magus-Rogue, but perhaps I should shift that with MG heading rogue.

Realizes spoilers are incoming for RotR (which I'm currently playing, still in book 1) and stoooooops! Phew, that was close!

Btw, where is a good place to read about House Arvanxi to get as pumped up about it as you two :P

DM Ray, when you get a chance, do you mind opening Gameplay for dot-and-delete?

I use my current campaigns tab to keep track of new posts in games.

Thanks!

I'm going to try to get her Tuesday for a good character-creation post and Discussion.

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Speaking of Spoilers, apologies -- and it would be a good time to mention those adventures with which we are individually avoiding Spoilers.
I am avoiding Spoilers on the second half of Wrath of the Righteous. (I haven't read 'Hells' Rebels' or 'Hells' Vengeance' yet because, like 'Council of Thieves', I was avoiding Spoilers for so many years hoping for a chance to play in them. But now I've just given up. I'll DM them, starting here with CoT -- which I will finish reading by Wednesday, perhaps earlier. But for me, please no Spoilers from WotR. (Also no Spoilers for me on 'Savage Tide', though that was so long ago that I doubt it would come up. But I'm still hoping to play it one day.)

We already know that we should avoid Spoilers on 'Rise of the RuneLords'.

Any others?

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Okay, I'll open Gameplay specifically for 'Dot-and-Delete' -- just please remember to Delete. (We're a ways from Gameplay.)

Ray, whenabouts does this game take place in relation to your personal homebrew? Specifically, what has Magnius been up to, and where he is currently? Unsure if it would be a good idea or not to have one of my former PCs as a friendly npc to group or not, lol

Also, I don't recall if you had done much on your own with House Arvanxi before I made him or not. If you had, can you give me a refresher on them?

Finally, I've given some more thought to my PC: He's going to be a bit heavy on infiltration skills and I'm possibly considering taking the Master Spy PrC. He'll likely have one or two false identities to start with(which can be detailed if you'd like), and he'll probably create a few more as the game goes on.

It's too bad there's no way to get two Inquisitions for an Inquisitor, as both the Clandestine and Secrets Inquisitions work really well for my overall concept.

Course, it's probably for the best, as I if could take both, I would then pester you to let me also take both the Secret Seeker and Urban Infiltrator archetypes. They both give up Monster Lore, but otherwise don't share anything they trade out.

I don't have a set-in-place time. In general, I prefer to start new campaigns 'about 100 years after Aroden' and then subsequent campaigns 'a little bit after the previous' campaign. I don't think canonical timeline will really matter in this game; it can be when you need it. NPCs, likely more in the early game (only in order to set the stage), may imply that Aroden vanished 100 years ago. (But it could be 104 or 108 or 111 years, whenever).

In my Homebrew the only time I used Lord Magnius was in Macini where some PCs were tracking down some legal documents at the famous law library/law university there. I needed ready-for-play NPCs and Magnius was available. In the past, when players run into their old PCs as NPCs, I try to make the encounters brief. I'll likely have Magnius in Macini during this campaign. I can't go into more without Spoilers, but even though I've detailed some House Arvanxi members, and you have as well, we'll probably leave much of it out. At least, for large swaths of the game. Maybe more like occasionally sending or receiving a letter regarding goings-on or progress.

As an addendum, though (now that I'm awake), it seems that the timeline would have to be earlier than yours and my attempt at PbP last time -- since Magnius was 8th Level back then and doing his part to further his House. So if we made it more contemporary then Magnius would have been a success already. Maybe in your head-canon it's a little earlier, Magnius is still 2nd or 3rd Level or something. (If he's 8th or 10th he'd just bonk Aberian Arvanxi on thead and be like, 'Yeah, I'm patriarch now; you're useless.'

Okay, I'll open Gameplay specifically for 'Dot-and-Delete' -- just please remember to Delete. (We're a ways from Gameplay.)

Okay, now I have to come up with a name and alias before we have the finished character creation rules. This is really odd.

I'm usually a rules -> story -> rewrite rules to match story -> rewrite story to match rules -> rinse and repeat a few cycles kind of guy.

LOL

I totally understand. And feel your pain. For the record, I usually, you know, *Read* an adventure before I agree to DM it.

This one's throwing a few of us for a loop.

Lol, I'm pretty 'go with the flow' for these sorts of things. I generally don't bother with some sort of 'pre-dot'. I've posted here, so the campaign itself shows up in my thread of games.

Is there something special dotting in gameplay does that's different from what commenting in discussion would do? Especially considering Ray won't be starting the game soon?

It shows your commitment and marks you as one of the chosen. Without this mark, who knows what might happen on the Night of of Darkest Blessings.

lightning flashes through the window, revealing that hooded acolytes have silently entered the room. At being revealed, the begin to chant...

"One of us. One of us. One of us,"

DM Ray wrote:

Okay, I'll open Gameplay specifically for 'Dot-and-Delete' -- just please remember to Delete. (We're a ways from Gameplay.)

Okay, now I have to come up with a name and alias before we have the finished character creation rules. This is really odd.

I'm usually a rules -> story -> rewrite rules to match story -> rewrite story to match rules -> rinse and repeat a few cycles kind of guy.

I don't think anyone NEEDS to dot now (and if you do, it can be with a name like TBD-123). I just requested it since it's the way I like to track threads.

Lol, I'm pretty 'go with the flow' for these sorts of things. I generally don't bother with some sort of 'pre-dot'. I've posted here, so the campaign itself shows up in my thread of games.

Is there something special dotting in gameplay does that's different from what commenting in discussion would do? Especially considering Ray won't be starting the game soon?

I use my campaigns tab to track things to keep up to date on. If there's a way to get a thread to show up on that tab without dotting in gameplay, I don't know of it. (I do know there are other ways of tracking threads...but this is the one I tend to go to regularly).

Okay, y'all can use or not use these Houserules. I've gotten so used to them that it never seems like a whole heap to me, but, yeah, I guess it can get overwhelming. Anyway, we can go plain RAW (except for Skills) if you want. Or you can cherry pick through these. Letters 'C', 'I', and 'O' are my personal favorites. But whatever.

A) Gestalt

B) 26 Point Buy for Ability Scores

C) Every Race to use the 'Standard' Ability Score racial modifier of +2/+2/-2 -- so even Aasimars and Humans get a +2 to one Physical, a +2 to one Mental, and a -2 to one of the other four Ability Scores. Player's choice. If you want your Dwarf to have a racial +2 CHA or your Catfolk to have a +2 WIS, you can. You could even have an Elf with a +2 CON and -2 DEX though it would look like an odd Elf. And your Human is a +2/+2/-2 just like everybody else. (I do this so people can choose Race based on Flavor rather than Crunch. There are great concepts for Gnome Arcanists (but you need INT instead of CHA) and great concepts for Ifrit Inquisitors (but you need WIS) that don't get played because of your Ability Scores are nerfed right out of the gate. (And Aasimars should be +2/+2/-2 just like Tieflings -- I remember calling Paizo out on this when Aasimars were published and Erik Mona responded with like, 'Hey, they're not supposed to be Balanced.' I thought that was totally bogus, bad design. But at least he personally replied to my Thread on The Boards; I love Paizo!)

D) Max HP every Level

Healing:
E) Re-Roll ALL Ones in HP Healing

F) As a Full Round Action (provokes) you can use the Heal Skill to treat wounds. You can use the Skill to heal 2 Hit Points at DC 16 and an additional 2 HP for every five DC points (4 HP at DC 21; 6 HP at DC 26; 8 HP at DC 31, etc).

G) You can use the Heal Skill to identify how injured or near-death an ally or enemy is. Use either a Move or Swift Action (does not provoke) to determine Health; more accurate health information is revealed with higher DC achievement.

H) You can also use the Heal Skill to provide relief against afflictions. As a Full Round Action (provokes) you can counter the effects of one Condition for ten minutes per your Character Level on a successful Heal check. The DC is either 15 times the spell level, or 12 plus the Fortitude Save DC. This does not eliminate the condition, it suppresses or counters it for the duration.

I) The zero-level spell, Cure Minor Wounds is usable, magically healing 1 HP as a Standard Action (provokes), but can only be used on the same character a number of times per day equal to CL plus your relevant Ability Score modifier.

J) The spell Breath of Life is renamed “Cure Deadly Wounds” and as such is treated as a ‘Cure’ spell (for spontaneous casting).

Language nazi DM:
K) There is no ‘Common’ human language. Natives of Cheliax speak Chelaxian. Natives of Absalom speak Taldane. Native Varisians speak Varisian.

L) Every Rank one puts into Linguistics earns two languages.

M) Ancient, dead, and lost languages, such as Thassilonian and Azlanti require four Ranks in Linguistics to learn.

Weapons:
N) A nat 20 is always a critical hit (no confirmation).

O) No weapon has an intrinsic Threat Range. No weapon. The Feat Improved Critical can give you a Threat Range (19-20) as can the Enchantment, Keen (19-20). Improved Crit and Keen STACK, so with both one can have an 18-19 Threat (and always Crit on a 20).

Miscellaneous:
P) Item Creation Feats are not allowed except for Brew Potion and Scribe Scroll.

Q) Adamantine can not be purchased, only found during game.

R) Neither Race nor Class can grant the Feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

S) And I'm indifferent to starting treasure, 150 GP, 300 GP, 'Rich Parents' Trait or whatever.

Thanks! I particularly like the race thing. I'm always sad that Gnomes are such subpar alchemists (and love that now a halfling fighter or a dwarven bard is doable).

To clarify, for languages, let's say I wanted to learn Thassilonian, are you saying it still only counts as 1 of the 2 languages, but can't be taken before L4? Or are you saying that it "costs" 4 language slots (so after spending 2 pts, I could learn elven, dwarven, orcish, and halfling...or instead of those four, learn 1 ancient language?

Linguistics Rank 1: Goblinoids and 1/4 Azlanti.
(It can be tricky to try to articulate that briefly; it often sounds like one could go Linguistics Rank 1: 1/4 Azlanti and another 1/4 Azlanti. But one cannot.)
4 Ranks: 4 Languages and Azlanti.

It's just a gimmick to make my strict language beliefs work: I need strict language rules but want to make it easier to get several languages. ....(But then I think of Thassilonian and Azlanti and the others and I'm like, 'Oh wait; I don't think you should have that at 1st Level.