Just FYI, I'm going on vacation this Friday and I will be away with spotty internet access for two weeks. I will try to keep up with the game, but if something happens where you need a quick response, feel free to decide what Benedic does without me. :)
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Okay, here's where we get into it, I've put it off as much as I could but we're about to get into the Siege of Drezen and mass combat is what should form the bulk of this section of the adventure.
I know different players have different interest levels in mass combat. However, you can't really have a crusade story without pushing some soldiers across a map.
The problems I have are thus:
1) The RAW mass combat rules are just not very interesting, and really just put one player against GM NPCs.
2) Play-by-Post is already a slow method of play, further slowing things down with a round-by-round mass combat doesn't make for interesting posts.
So here is what I propose instead. Below will be spoilered for length:
Mass Combat Skill Challenge Rules
Ability Pools
Might - (Strength of Arms and Magic) - Spend from the Might Pool when you fail a melee attack roll, strength or constitution based skill or ability check or Fortitude Save.
Mobility - Speed and Ability to Maneuver - Spend from the Mobility pool when you fail a ranged attack roll, dexterity based skill or ability check, or Reflex Save.
Discipline - Morale, Magic and Intelligence - Spend from your Discipline pool when you fail a concentration check, intelligence, wisdom or charisma based ability or skill check or Will Save.
Army Resources
Your army has access to the following resources, to make use of the resource you must include it as part of the description of what the army around you is doing.
Improved Armour: +3 to rolls to defend against attacks [ ] Refresh once per day.
Improved Weapons +3 to rolls to attack in melee [ ] Refresh once per day
Mounts: +3 to move with speed [ ] Refresh once per Day
Ranged Weapons: +3 to attack at range [ ] Refresh once per day
Healing Potions Recover 1d8+1 divided among your pools as you wish. (Can be used once)
Army Edges
Your army has the following edges:
Aura of Courage Reduce cost of spending Discipline by 1
Channel Positive Energy Use Discipline vs. Undead once per day.
Divine Health Reduce cost of spending Discipline to defend against disease by 1.
Lay on Hands Recover 1d4 Might once per day.
Smite Evil Reduce cost of spending Might by 1.
Spellcasting Spend discipline instead of Might or Mobility.
The Mass Combat Check
Each time your army enters a region, each player will make an attack, save, skill or ability check to represent their contribution to leading/inspiring/guiding/fighting alongside the army. You will be presented with an AC/Save DC/Skill DC/Ability check DCs along with suggested rolls for these DCs.
Once this check is resolved, you'll be able to decide where your army will go next, or a location will be revealed where your characters might need to perform a personal skirmish action.
At the end of each round a round-up will be made from lowest-to-highest, with the highest PC winning Glory.
Failing Forward
This will be a "Fail Forward" mechanic, where players fail these checks they will be reducing the Might/Mobility/Discipline pools of the army to make up for failures (1 point for each point the check has failed). These pools are both the ability scores and hit points of the army. Representing loss of lives, tactical advantage or morale of the army. If any pool reaches 0 the army is unable to take further actions until the pool is healed above 0.
To recover pools your heroes will likely have to perform some manner of mission to recover enough resources to heal casualties, seek reinforcements or restore morale to the army.
If all pools are reduced to 0, your army is defeated, either by death or forced retreat, and your mission in Drezen will be much, much harder against the forces arrayed against you.
Spending Glory
Any PC who has earned Glory can spend it in the following ways:
30 Points - Recover 1 mythic point
20 Points - Recover one use of a class feature, or 2 rounds if tracked by round
10 Points per Spell Level - Recover a spell slot of the corresponding level.
10 Points - Regain a charge on a magic item.
Rations
Your army has 14 days worth of rations. Each day without rations reduces all of your pools by 1 point per day.
Statting up your army
So based on your victories so far I'd like you as a group to decide how you'd like your army's pools to be statted up. Each pool will begin at 10 as a base, and you have 40 points to distribute among the three scores.
Crusaders of Kenabres
Might 10 +
Mobility 10 +
Discipline 10 +
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I'm good with the proposal, I think it is a more interesting way to approach mass combat than other writeups I've seen out there.
I'd vote for splitting the 40 points evenly, with a spare going into discipline (they are Paladins after all)
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Sounds interesting. Let's try it!
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Additional Rules:
Allies can be used as part of a Mass Combat Roll or between Mass Combats to help restore the pools for your armies.
Anevia Tirabade
+2 checks for Scouting (Perception, Stealth), Kn. (Local/Nature), Traversing (Acrobatics, Climb, Swim), Survival, Ranged Combat, Reflex Saves
Recover: Mobility (1d4)
Captain Arles Jhestander
+2 checks for Intimidate, Ride, Melee Combat, Will Saves
Recover: Might (1d3)
Aron Kir
+2 checks for Scouting (Perception, Stealth), Kn. (Local/Nature) Traversing (Acrobatics, Climb, Swim), Survival, Melee Combat, Reflex Saves
Recover: Mobility (1d4)
Aravashnial
+2 checks for Knowledge (Arcana/Planes/History), Concentration, Spellcraft, Will SWaves
Recover: Discipline (1d4)
Beatric
+2 checks for Knowledge (Religion), Concentration, Will Saves
Recover: Discipline (1d4)
Horgus Gwerm
+2 checks for Intimidate, Reflex Saves
Recover: Any (1d3)
Irabeth Tirabade
+2 checks for Diplomacy, Intimidate, Kn. (Religion), Ride, Attack Rolls, Fortitude Saves, Will Saves
Recover: Any (1d6)
Captain Kamilo Dan
+2 checks for Diplomacy, Kn. (Local), Ride, Melee Attack Rolls, Will Saves
Recover: Might (1d3)
Nurah Dendiwar
+2 checks for Charisma based checks, Scouting (Perception/Stealth), Ranged Attacks, Reflex Saves
Recover: Discipline (1d4)
Sosiel Vanic
+2 checks for Kn. (Religion/Planes), Heal, Spellcraft, Concentration, Melee Attacks, Will Saves
Recover: Any (1d6)
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I am good with this plan.
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Example of Play
The crusaders find themselves in a blind canyon, and have come across an army of cultists.
The modest amy of Cultists has a CR of 3 (HD d8) for a total of 120 adversary pool (4 x 3 x 10).
The following checks and DCs are offered.
Concentration DC 19, Skill DC 22, Enemy AC 21, Strength/Con DC 14, Save DC 17
Might
Fight in the Melee Melee Attack Roll
Outlast the Enemy Constitution Check
Mobility
Scout Stealth/Perception
Charge! Acrobatics or Ride
Covering Fire Ranged Attack
Discipline
Hold Firm vs Fear Will Save
Surrender or Die Intimidate or Diplomacy
Spell Bombardment Concentration DC 22
(-4) Tristan rushes into the melee with a group of Paladins, but the cultists hold them at bay with their better reach. (Reduce Might pool by 4)
(-4) Benedic tries to help the army hold firm against the magical fear cast by the cultists, unfortunately some of the enlisted men break formation and run! (Reduce Discipline by 3)
(+3) Caliban works with Aravashnial and the small group of dedicated casters in the army to bombard the enemy with ranged and area of effect magic, causing some of the cultists to scatter. [Earning 1 Glory]
(+5) Junior and Amelia corner some of the scattered cultists offering them the choice of Surrender or Death, many of the cultists choose to kill themselves rather than be captured but a few choose surrender. [Earning 1 Glory]
(+9) Selann and Anevia work together to find a spot to ambush some of the separated Cultists taking them down in an efficient manner. [Earning 1 Glory]
(+14) A small group of cultists defending their demonic commander have held out on the battlefield, but few can outlast Greta and her endurance inspires the crusaders to fight beyond their limits finally breaking the turtle formation of the cultists and bringing their commander down in a glorious and bloody finish! [Earning 14 Glory +2 for Natural 20]
OMG this is such a good level for me. I wish I had time to actually do it. Stupid work.
Lore master, another versatile perform, song goes to move, 3rd level spells.
Work? Say, wat now?
Yeah until you share your trust fund with me I have to work for a living. And I should probably make some GM posts before I level too, lol
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Hurray for level 7! I should have time to level up today, and I'll post highlights here.
I'm not 100% sure I completely get the flow of mass combat (although the example definitely helped), but I'm down for just going for it and seeing how it goes.
As for allocating stats for our army- given that the spellcasting edge lets us spend discipline instead of might or mobility, is there any reason at all why we shouldn't just put all of our free points into discipline?
Alright, level up complete
+9 hp (6 from a d10 +2 Con +1 fcb)
+1 BAB
+1 to all my skills except linguistics
feat goes to VMC, and gained the "calling" order ability
gained 2nd level spells, and learned: bless (1st), bull's str, and see invis
gained DR 1/--
Yeah until you share your trust fund with me I have to work for a living. And I should probably make some GM posts before I level too, lol
Merlin ate my trust fund, so now I work...lol.
We are heading out of town this weekend, so my posting rate my...who am I kidding! Game on!
That'll teach you to trust a cat who's also a wizard with your investment portfolio.
@Dudemeister, excuse me if I've asked this before but does Moment of Greatness apply to the strength bonus from rage song? I can see arguments on either side of it.
Anyone want to go in on outflank with me?
Turns out I planned ahead
+1 feat (Outflank)
+1 BAB
+7 HP
+5 skill +2 background craft, spellcraft, UMD, engineering, oratory, percussion, sing
Lore Master 1/day
Versatile Performance - Sing to gain bluff
+2 3rd level spell slot
+1 1st level spell known (Moment of Greatness)
+2 3rd level spells known (Flexible Fury, Good Hope)
Rage song may be started with move action
Leadership +5 1st level followers. Will get some basics on these people later but one is a goblin alchemist whose name is Spleck
Amelia +1 level, will do later
3rd level spells: Haste, Vampiric Touch unless someone else wants to grab haste?
Feat: Cornugon Smash :D
Level 7! I can now cast Fly on Greta! And Haste! Of course I want Haste!
And I can add magic to my arcane bond/ring! Can anyone cast Create Food and Water? (to make it a ring of sustenance)
And I can add magic to my arcane bond/ring! Can anyone cast Create Food and Water? (to make it a ring of sustenance)
I could with Spell Kenning
Selann, are you taking haste then? I won't at the moment so we're not doubling up. We can trade spells later so we both have it. Also have Dispel Magic in my spellbook from earlier if you need to copy it.
And I can add magic to my arcane bond/ring! Can anyone cast Create Food and Water? (to make it a ring of sustenance)I could with Spell Kenning
Gonna recommend you just no meet that prereq. DC becomes 15, and each check you can take 10, your spellcraft is better than +5 right?
Benedic can cast Create Food and Water- he would just need a day when he can burn a 3rd level spell on it.
Also, Hurray for fly!
My spellcraft is currently +7, but I plan to increase it to +12. In the item creation rules you can double the speed of creating an item by increasing the DC by 5.
My spellcraft is currently +7, but I plan to increase it to +12. In the item creation rules you can double the speed of creating an item by increasing the DC by 5.
Yep then the DC goes to 20. 5 (base) + 5 (item level) + 5 (req not met) + 5 (fast craft).
Your check is 22 if you take 10. No need to burn a valuable 3rd level spell slot on it.
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That'll teach you to trust a cat who's also a wizard with your investment portfolio.
@Dudemeister, excuse me if I've asked this before but does Moment of Greatness apply to the strength bonus from rage song? I can see arguments on either side of it.
Yes, you apply Moment of Greatness to any one morale bonus you're receiving before making a roll which means you can double the bonus from Rage.
Inspiring Rage specifically calls out the ability bonuses are morale bonuses, so all kosher as far as I'm concerned.
Anyone want to go in on outflank with me?
Remind me to level him up Monday and then yes...lol.
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Level up
+1 BAB
HP +6
+1 Fort
+7 skill (+1 perception, +1 spellcraft, +1 stealth, +1 disguise, +2 planes, +1 local)
+2 bg skill (string, musical composition)
+2 bard song
Gain inspire competence +2
+1 1st level spell slot
Spells learned: light, disguise self
Feat: Outflank
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I'm back from my vacation and starting to catch up on everything. I'll level up Benedic today (he gets 4th level spells and lay on hands). I think I understand your Mass Combat rules, and I greatly appreciate what you're trying to do with them.
Heroism!
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Benedic doesn't have very many 4th level spell slots, but the spells that are useful at this level are embarrassingly fulsome. Here's what I have in my notes:
air walk (4th): very useful, comparable to fly
crusader's edge (4th): evil outsiders bane 1m/level is great, nauseated on crit is excellent
death ward (4th): essential to have available, via scroll or Inspired Spell
dimensional anchor (4th): necessary vs demons, scroll or Inspired Spell
divination (4th): excellent for learning what we will be facing, use with Inspired Spell or empty slots at end of day
divine power (4th): very good if full attacking, especially with Fate's Favored -- slightly redundant with haste
enchantment foil (4th): hours/level, so eventually good to cast at end of day to last after resting
encouraging heroism+ [mythic] (4th, domain): encouraging increases the bonus to +5
freedom of movement (4th): essential, scroll or Inspired Spell
glimpse of truth (4th): good scroll or Inspired Spell
good hope (4th, from Iomedae): +2 morale for everyone to ability, attack, damage, saves, skills-- redundant with mythic heroism
holy smite+ (4th): ~13 damage to all evil creatures / ~24 damage to all evil outsiders in 20'r, Will save for half or blinded
purify body (4th): mini-heal for emergencies
@Benedic- if you're welcoming feedback on your list, I'd point out that inspired spell requires that a spell have a casting time of a standard action or less, so it can't be used for divination (which has a 10 minute casting time).
Always appreciate feedback, Greta! That’s a good point, I’ll have to keep empty spell slots for divination if we want to make use of it.
okay dropped Haste since Selann is picking it up and grabbed slow instead
Prestige classes don't get free wizard spells when they level up, right? :/
Prestige classes don't get free wizard spells when they level up, right? :/
They do not. I can feed Selann scrolls up to 3rd level now if he wants.
Crap! I forgot that. And there's no where to buy them here.... :(
Do any of our NPC friends have ranks in profession siege engineer? Or would Know. Engineering also work for that check? Even if the DC was higher.
Crap! I forgot that. And there's no where to buy them here.... :(
Perhaps Caliban also learning haste is good for you both after all?
Crap! I forgot that. And there's no where to buy them here.... :(Horgus can source scrolls, potions and consumables for you for a 15% mark-up for delivery.
Could he do the same for scribing material?
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Sorry, I already have questions...
- We all pick one check and attempt it right?
- Are people allowed to double up on the same roll (like Benedic and Tristan did) or do we have to all pick different ones?
- You mentioned using NPCs in mass combat, how does that work? Do they act in our place or in addition to us? How often can we use them?
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Sorry, I already have questions...
- We all pick one check and attempt it right?
- Are people allowed to double up on the same roll (like Benedic and Tristan did) or do we have to all pick different ones?
- You mentioned using NPCs in mass combat, how does that work? Do they act in our place or in addition to us? How often can we use them?
Everyone picks one check and attempts it
If people choose the same check only the higher of the two counts (@Benedic or @Tristan if you want to change your check because this wasn't clarified earlier please feel free)
Using an NPC below - Once Per Day you can use an NPC in combat, any NPCs not used can be used in the recovery phase to recover a stat. They are essentially "Aiding" your character.
Anevia Tirabade
+2 checks for Scouting (Perception, Stealth), Kn. (Local/Nature), Traversing (Acrobatics, Climb, Swim), Survival, Ranged Combat, Reflex Saves
Recover: Mobility (1d4)
Captain Arles Jhestander
+2 checks for Intimidate, Ride, Melee Combat, Will Saves
Recover: Might (1d3)
Aron Kir
+2 checks for Scouting (Perception, Stealth), Kn. (Local/Nature) Traversing (Acrobatics, Climb, Swim), Survival, Melee Combat, Reflex Saves
Recover: Mobility (1d4)
Aravashnial
+2 checks for Knowledge (Arcana/Planes/History), Concentration, Spellcraft, Will SWaves
Recover: Discipline (1d4)
Beatric
+2 checks for Knowledge (Religion), Concentration, Will Saves
Recover: Discipline (1d4)
Horgus Gwerm
+2 checks for Intimidate, Reflex Saves
Recover: Any (1d3)
Irabeth Tirabade
+2 checks for Diplomacy, Intimidate, Kn. (Religion), Ride, Attack Rolls, Fortitude Saves, Will Saves
Recover: Any (1d6)
Captain Kamilo Dan
+2 checks for Diplomacy, Kn. (Local), Ride, Melee Attack Rolls, Will Saves
Recover: Might (1d3)
Nurah Dendiwar
+2 checks for Charisma based checks, Scouting (Perception/Stealth), Ranged Attacks, Reflex Saves
Recover: Discipline (1d4)
Sosiel Vanic
+2 checks for Kn. (Religion/Planes), Heal, Spellcraft, Concentration, Melee Attacks, Will Saves
Recover: Any (1d6)
PCs can't Aid each other during the battle as they'll be too busy leading the troops in battle.
copy that, in light of the change, Haste instead of slow...
@Selann I'll save my Spell Kenning for you for today unless we hit an emergency. Just pay the appropriate scribe scroll cost for whichever 1st-3rd level spell you want to learn.
You can assume I do that everyday for you. I'll call out when it won't be possible.