I hope I have given sufficient warning that these Babaus are professional if crazy veterans.
And a "crazy", for demon standards, demon may actually be more socially functional and/or sane then the average demon.
And then of course, mythic b$*!~#&& will happen and you will trounce the encounter with ease :).
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Idaya also took some serious damage but reasonably may have chosen to heal it with Lay on Hands while we were all chatting post-battle. Generally, I am also waiting on her response to being offered the spider climb scroll and Thesius's interaction with Arthur / Elliot to activate his flight hex before we move on in. No worries if you don't want it, just wanted to give you some options, Idaya, because these guys seem like they might not fight fair on the ground, and we can't offer actual flight right now.
Damn, Verene expertly caught one thing they are going/planning to do :)
Very glad you did!
A short aside on demon personalities:
When I am trying to come up with demon statblocks, strategies etc. I try to add a short C.V. of that demon, what motivates him/her/it etc. and then I get a hard boiled bunch of Babaus who have seen some seriously s%@#, that traumatized them into being actual teamplayers who watch out for each other.
At least some of my demons are certainly "nicer" in a "a society of such people could actually exist" then demons in a pathfinder, cosmologically, could plausibly be (where they are written as pure evil and chaos), but I find that a) interacting with demons which have names and personalities, even if that interaction is pure violence, is more fun for players (most of the time) then interacting with anonymous statblocks, and b) I dont think I am sufficiently chaotic and evil in real life to write for *lore accurate demons* and I dont think I want to be.
Oh, as you were chatting, and then the mental showdown with the Babaus began, Sorica is going to book it with a message to Irabeth about possible demon relief attempts.
She does not have equipment on her, and the following fight should be hard enough without having to protect an unarmed unarmored hostage (she could temporarily yoink some cultist gear, but currently also isnt in a great shape headwise, and doesnt want to touch demonic things).
If Thesius does not want to play Elliot, we can retcon that Elliot is escorting Sorica, I will adjust down the number of enemies in this case.
To clarify, Thesius and Elliot or making their way quickly down that hallway. So if they can move forward further in that first round before getting attacked. Please feel free to move them.
Sounds like Azira is keeping pace alongside Thesius. Verene is trailing to stay out of the silence.
Thesius' caster level is 7. He lost one level when he transitioned into Evangelist.
As Verene noted, Thesius has Trap Spotter for an immediate attempt at spotting traps within 10 feet. His current Perception is +27 in case needed.
Also, I was thinking that as a L7 character, Sorica would be safe to hang back but stay with us until we collected the Thesius item and left. Is that not right? Azira certainly wouldn't want her to leave alone, even with directions.
Its mostly to reduce things that I have to run in the combat.
If Sorica leaves with either Azira or Elliot as guards (probably Elliot since Thesius more strongly indicated he doesnt want to run him), between 1 and 2 Babaus will try to ambush them, and fail, because Elliot will defeat one and Azira will easily curbstomp two.
Especially without their boss and their bard nearby.
Sure, makes sense - so can she just hang back out of the combat, near the entrance with the stairs, so you don't have to run her in this combat? We've made and implemented our plan for this area, which does involve both Elliot and Azira, and I don't think we want to wait longer IRL to adjust it.
Sorica is an NPC, so she's under GM control, so if she goes to Irabeth on her own that's that, I just think it would make more sense for her to wait to be escorted by the full group than for either her to split off or her plus Azira/Elliot to split off.
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She is gonna dress up in a masterwork chainshirt (joinked from one of the cultist, lets just say one of them had a chain shirt rather then a breastplate) and take +1 Frost rapier temporarily for self defense.
Murder Mortal=26
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Verene=19
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Babaulier=18
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Thesius AND Elliot (convenient) 17
Azira=13
Merixia 11
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Barbdau 10
Goodsquad red 9
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Arthur 7
Wulfric 3
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Goonsquad green 3
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Idaya 2
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Also, Paizo Forum tried to eat my post! But I had it saved in open office! NOT TODAY PAIZO!
Thesius has evasion, so no damage for him. I'll update his status line later.
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Note, the "Murder Mortal" has been bullied by Staunton, on suspicion of trying to steal his booze.
Lies, he actually stole a few of Stauntons wands at Vrakasheks behest, which he is now employing.
He does not know that I think he still caused more damage then Staunton Vhane.
These babaus, while they are a bit quirky and even fun in some ways, are absolutely chaotic evil murderhoboes.
They are perhaps a bit less evil then the average demon, because a) they really hate the great old ones, which reduces their anti-mortal-racism-sentiment (they do cringe at demonically affiliated mortals trying to outcruel actual demons) as well as their "I hate the forces of good" sentiment (if they see a Shoggoth fighting an Angel they would stab the Shoggoth first, and then probably try to suprise stab the angel or prank/troll it in some other way) and b) the strange interaction between the mind altering effects of being in the city of the elder gods, and being demons, somehow resulted in demons with a sense of teamwork, c) they will also be completely honest about them being "chaotic evil murderhoboes".
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He did more damage by default, because poor Staunton never even got a turn to act!
It's been a great subject of discussion amongst my longtime IRL player/DM friend group: how do (Almost) Always Chaotic Evil races ever get to the point that they have a functioning civilization or army? Drow are a great example. They have this whole complicated system of noble houses and a giant city and successful economy and a military that they fight wars against the mind flayers with and so on, right? But if they're constantly murdering each other for position or gain and there are no consequences for that except what they or their families can enforce, the whole thing should basically instantly collapse into anarchy.
Not that I'm wanting to make any changes now, but it's not technically possible to 'ready' combat actions outside of initiative. But a surprise round if one side is not aware of the other side is possible. Due to her school power Forewarned, Verene always acts in the surprise round.
You mortals are quite curious from our perspective. You see, every single Succubus/incubus can greater teleport. A Power that perhaps 1 in a thousand mortals, on Golarion, would ever acquire. Yet, nearly every single mortal is able to cooperate with others, and to rapidly join coalitions, even if they have vastly different alignment, and to have this actually work. There are very few demons who can do this
The demoness says as if she had similar conversations before
Demons dont tend to view this as a strength, as my kind constantly belittles mortal frailties, and most mortals are indeed very easy to kill compared to most demons. A few demons, like some Baphometans, consider turning mortals into demons a "benevelent uplift", but actually learning from mortals? Incredibly rare, outside of Nocticula, Haagenti and Nurgal. And before that Luralune, whom I once served. She was a Fae first, a Banshee-queen second and a demonlord third.
her eyes becomes a bit distant as she talks about a long past memory, as she conjures an illusion, a beautifull Fae Lady, ethereal, but with sleek fiendish wings, likely the demonlord she once served.
Nocticula views mortal social cohesion and adaptability is desireable, and her politics, as they impact the material planes, are broadly speaking to be a temptress of mortal talent, not a genocidal conqueror. We do fight hard in my case, Cania, the Qlippoths, Carcosa and even Besmara herself would admit, but we arent interested in genocide, least of all on Rovagugs cage. Whats the point of ruling over ashes?
Refering to Golarion as Rovagugs cage is interesting, but to a planar traveler, not surprising.
To have working laws in the Abyss, well, Nocticulas laws are very very easy to understand.
1: If you have a problem with Nocticula, every Nocticulan can try to assassinate her. This, "Trial by murder" is an inalienable right. If they fail in a way Nocticula considers interesting, they may be elevated by her to a higher position. If not, Nocticula has the right to deal with those who try to assassinate her in any way she desires.
Note that trial by murders can only be done "upwards", I could trial by murder Shamira, as she outranks me, but Shamira cannot trial by murder me. She can still try to murder me via catspaws and proxies, but she would only be able to utilize a fraction of her power, and risk failing in that, which would then give me a pretty *just* cause to trial by murder her in turn, calling in all of my favors owed. If I declare the trial, I can ignore plausible deniability and go all out.
Nocticula cannot trial by murder anyone in the midnight isles, as she is on top. Which is in turn an implicit guarantee of safety.
To a mortal, that construction seems strange, but it apparently is intuitively understandable to a demon.
2: Do not attack mortals or planar travelers coming as guests, when they become participants in our game, they are fair games, but traders and tourists are to be spared. Nocticula does sometimes enforce this, very randomly, very demonstratably and very violently. On the other hand, if you manage to get trade deals with other planes, have happy customers return, you are provided discreet and measureable boons. These boon may just be that you can call in the Blades of midnight, Nocticulas household regiment, on your side should you be attacked, once, and everyone intuitively accepts that long term traders in Alyushiynrra have a lot of such boons and favors in reserve, for emergencies. Which discourages, significantly, brazen attacks upon them, or their business partners.
There is a rumor, which I occassionally encourage, that my association with Ragathiel which I once had as his guest allows me to once, call celestials to my side to do battle with other evil outsiders. I will neither confirm nor deny this.
She says with a smile to Merixia
Doloras tried a couple of times to get me in hot water with Nocticula by sending traders to Alyushinyrra, in the expectation that I would attack them, and thus violate Nocticulas law. Pfff, fool, I turned them to my side. Once you prove to the "bait" that the bait was just "bait for you", and send to essentially die, the bait will become quite cooperative with you. And I am a vastly better employer then the infernal queen of torture.
Her golden eyes smile warmly as she recounts this
And what does the Abyss think? It is sentient after all? That it is all a trap to kill a god. Maybe Cayden, Maybe Callistria, Maybe Besmara. All of those have been to Alyushinyrra, although with Cayden I am not sure if he was there as a god, or only as a mortal hero, but it is why the Abyss doesnt strike such an island of... for abyssal standards, law and pragmatism.
Having all of that working, well, it requires Lady Nocticula to be somewhat impartial and both distant and present. I dont actually want her job, it is too detached for my liking.
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I'd imagine that it works similar to GM's spoiler. Super Chaotic Evil societies survive when the stronger choose to spare the weaker by making them their vassal or enforcing some sort of obedience. Rules are enforced by threat of punishment and obedience rewarded to some degree.
Kind of like capitalism.
Another aspect that makes specifically Nocticulan society "work" is that they are mostly humanoid demons, Succubi, Incubi, Lilitu, Seraptis etc. that frequently spent significant amounts of time among non demons as infiltrators, and thus have had more preexposure to non demonic modes of "government".
Nurgal (who has nothing at all to do with WH40K Nurgle), used to be a god, and is highly pragmatic when it comes to violence. If you are good at violence, and have new tactical ideas about that, and are willing to work for him, he gives no expletives whatsorever about wether you are mortal, demon, something else. If you are mortal, and really good at things Nurgal cares about, you may even get a sweatheart deal on some type of immortality, because "f$@~ off Charon/Pharasma, if you want that mortal come and fight me over him".
Haagenti, as demonlord of science, is quite aware that science typically advances when at a dominant scientists funeral, since he doesnt plan on dying himself, ever, he is thus very keen on siphoning up mortal scientists, to whom he offers pretty reasonable deals.
In terms of political commentary, Laulieh specifically would recognize herself in the description of a "venture capitalist". Identify promising mortals early in their career, endow them with power by "investing" in them, and reap rewards later by having such mortals at least somewhat aligned to your goals.
As an aside fun fact, in my version of the midnight isles, the currency is convertible to assassination, to a similar degree as the Dollar used to be based on being convertible to oil.
Also, rules question, does sound that enters a silence zone come out on the other end?
Canon does give us an example of a chaotic mortal society in Nirmathas. People choose to follow particularly charismatic and capable leaders. In the Abyss, I imagine that powerful demons and demon lords attract vassals by trading protection for service. There's very little in the way of codified law, but it's in the lord's best interest to keep their vassals safe and either content or terrified enough not to risk leaving for another lord's service. Nocticula and Laulieh are smart enough to realize that they get better work and more loyalty from vassals who are happy or at least content with their lot in life.
Yep, Laulieh in particular is genuinely not a bad boss. Although there is some un-Nocticulan nepotism, since she does specifically favors her daughters and sets them up to win. Nocticulas daughters are unknown, and trying to research who, if any, they are gets you seriously assassinated as Nocticula does not tolerate theoretical threats to her offspring, but she is also fiercely meritocratic, and there are no known examples of her favoring her offspring in particular.
It is hypothesised that Nocticulas daughter do not know who their mother is, which is sensible given how many demons are telepaths.
Another fun tradition of the midnight isles is the "Bloodmoon".
Supposedly commemorating a *certain hero* who was both quite freedom loving, and supposedly really good in bed, and whose name totally doesnt rhyme with Ayden Aylean, having had an outing with the lady in shadows.
It is said that he was so proficient/pleasing, all slave collars in the midnight isles stopped working for 3 nights.
In strategic terms, it gives slaves a fighting chance to murder their masters, or to renegotiate their arrangements so to speak. The timing can never be truely predicted, but there is a betting market on it. Laulieh (and some others) nearly exclusively use employees (who are paid) and vasalls (who are not slaves, a vasall maintains a fair bit of autonomy and gets something in return), and tends to expand her territory each Bloodmoon, at the expense of more slave heavy competitors, as such, more refined ways of running things are somewhat subtly incentivized.
I feel like most of the things described above are just demons having to reinvent feudalism, which is kind of my point. Things can't stay anarchy and also have a full civilization.
Anyway, every ally gets to Advance, including those whose turn it is not! Enjoy your full round actions on your next turn.
Also, rules question, does sound that enters a silence zone come out on the other end?
Sorry, missed this question. The description says "All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area." So, if the 20' radius of the silence from where it is centered on Elliot totally blocks the passageway here, I think no sound would go through. If we were in a larger cavern or like a flat open field, sound might go around the bubble of silence.
In that case, the 2 Babau were rather confused about the music stopping when they teleported too.
Now that I think of it, "Babaulier" sounds a lot like a Clair Obscur enemy.
He now has a french Galtese accent, which wont matter that much because of the silence.
A lot of people have their advance action, at several more people are up!
I definitely did not realize from the description of his turn that Babaulier was back on the ground after running up the wall to attack Elliot. Azira would have gone for him if I thought he was in reach, but no worries. What's done is done.
He is a spring attacker, and it is certainly unusual that he moves after attacking.
She would have missed him (he is well equipped and a dodgy bastard), so that worked out for her.
Effing pathfinder, trying to balance things so that they dont easily die and challenge you, but so that they also dont hundred to zero PCs on one crit, is surprisingly hard.
Busy weekend. I'm working on getting caught up though so I can post.
Darn, I was hoping he wouldn't have Combat Reflexes. I suppose it fits for a cavalier though.
A couple things:
- Both of those attacks by Merixia were critical threats due to keen edge. I think there was a mix-up with flying vs. the 3-dimensional nature of web, and Merixia did not intend to stop her movement in it and thus disallow 5-foot steps, but moving on.
- The three babaus in it need to roll against Merixia's archon's aura.
- Aren't the walls 20 feet high? If the lead babau is on the ground (which I just did not get at all from the description of his turn, sorry about that, very much my bad) and Idaya is spider climbing, she does not need to provoke that AoO at all. She can move to 2 squares directly above him (or 2 squares above/1 past) and then 5'-step in on her turn if she wishes.
- Everyone who moved into/through a square of web (pink), whether through Advance or on their turn, has to make a DC 13 CMB check or Escape Artist check to do so. Thesius already did, so that's Idaya, Merixia, Elliot, and when he moves, Arthur.
- Arthur, you can do what you want, but Verene did just stun both the guys at the back, so the back line is safe for at least a full turn. You should feel free to unleash on the leader here, in my opinion.
Babau have combat reflexes innately. The Babaulier also has the dex to really benefit from it.
Anyone can absolutely stop at 10 feet from him via advance, and then 5 foot step (if difficult terrain allows), but it does run the risk of him dodging panaching away (although thats an immidiate and he can only do that once per turn).
Spring attack with a reach weapon and dodging panache is pretty potent, normally.
I think/hope the fight is fun and tense, but may suffer from ending up being more climatic then some supposed boss fights (Hi Staunton).
The leader is more dangerous then the rest combined (although the Bardbau is a potent force multiplier) and Arthur has reach as well, so he can hit him without getting AoOed in the face.
Idaya and Arthur both have their turn before he is up again, but if he somehow stays up (he currently has one more parry left before he is out of AoOs, so thats imho unlikely) he can maybe put Azira down (although she also, I think, has dodging Panache and could defensively 5 foot step out of her flanked position, which would reduce the Babauliers attack bonus by a lot).
Outflank is one of the teamwork feats the Babaulier shared with his allies.
The Babaulier also thinks Elliot is dead (he hit him hard twice, most mortals he done that with are dead), unless Elliot stands up or acts, and he is too busy with multiple paladins to spare an attack on a currently non threatening foe.
Arthur personal long term rival has been introduced.
Mustafen the mythic Cambion alchemist. Plans to ascend as nascent demonlord of fraudulent sales practices, scamming, unethical means of doing business and viral marketing.
Also has an ego big enough to partially bend space time.
Rip Babaulier, you fought well.
For reference, the scource of the Cambion picture is:
Discount Dan from Black Pants legion Battle tech is really cool and I like it a lot haha
I then did some dumb stuff to turn it into a Cambion.
As far as I know, the guy in the picture is happily married with multiple kids, has a quiet desk job and adopts this persona for the lulz.
Well that's one way to end the massive threat that was this one. Are we still in initiative? Are the babaus retreating?
You are still in init, the Babau are essentially looking to teleport out, but you can still stop them, by hitting them really hard, and Idaya still has her turn too.
Nice, Arthur. I don't think I've ever seen someone roll two 20s to confirm two 20s in a turn before.
Idaya and Wulfric have a turn and then Verene, Azira, Thesius, Elliot and Merixia have a turn before any more babaus can act, I believe. I hope we can kill the remaining babaus before any get away. The mortal wand user gets to act after Idaya and before us, though.
Merixia, would you rather declare Wulfric's actions, or should I do it?
Unlikely these guys have any information worth their lives, and I don't really want to have a long conversation with them. If we're worried, Verene can scry. One vote to keep fighting and see how many demons we can take down before the rest teleport.
That was... complicated.
Also, rules question:
--Due to order of operations, the Bardbau, who has not used his manufactored weapon prior to biting, thus was entitled to bite attack with his fangs in a primary way.
--If someone would now provoke from him, it would be odd since he already did a primary bite, and thus couldnt, in the same turn, get a primary manufactored attack
--I am inclined to give him essentially a "secondary" penalty on any remaining AoOs he has until turn with his bardiche.
Also, its impressive how you are tearing throw competent foes who have a plan and good gear/tools. Babaulier was an advanced level 11 Cavalier (daring champion archetype)/demon gestalt, the Bardbau is level 9 Bard/Babau, and also advanced, and the goons had advanced templates and maxed hp too.
Future combats will be less swingy since I wont have to take into account/balance against Azira, and there will be less combatants in general.
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Why is the trip attempt of 37 failing against a CMD of 36, much less by 11?
because the AoO hit, for 12 damage and that is applied as penalty to the CMB attempt.
Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver.
which reduced it to a 25
Okay, in that case, knowing that, making the parry becomes much more important, so I'll mythic surge it immediately knowing that she needs a 38:
Leading to a parry result of 39, so the bite does not hit.
Wait, never mind. If the parry is going to fail, that's when Wulfric can just use his Gallant Inspiration as an immediate action on Azira's attack roll to parry, making it a 40.
My apologies for the delay. I'm wracking my brain about the logistics of a particular move and it requires some clarification.
To start, I believe Elliot needed a check when he tried to move through the web.
How high up is the Bardbau? Are they still reachable from the ground?
Elliot I believe has two mythic points left. I'm thinking of having him use one to grab his weapon and the other to cast Force Hook Charge. It says he lands on his feet which in turn would allow him to go into his full attack.
(Note that I think Wulfric would use Gallant Inspiration on the parry attempt because that's the first thing she does in the round that seems like it's going to fail. The AoO-parry combo takes place before the trip attempt. Only when she takes damage from that failure-to-parry-AoO would the trip attempt then be made at a heavy penalty.)
Azira I think cant mythic surge it since she already used a swift (for the fleet charge) on her turn, and the AoE also happens on her turn (rather then after her turn, where the immidiate action would be available).
I did explain my reasoning why Wulfric would in my view surge the trip (certain to suceed in something, vs 3 in 16 chance to boost the parry enough to matter).
Having it not be an incredibly big deal also allows me to not track down if he even has level 2 spells left, it has been a pretty long adventuring day (spanning months of in real life), even including stuff that happened before I even took over Gming, and I cant simply go by Wulfrics posts since its different people (including myself) doing his actions. To be honest, thats a significant reason for my decision
Depending on how the Bardbau looks resources wise when he gets his turn, he may do something fairly climatic rather then just teleporting out. The Climatic thing may well result in him dying during that.
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The Bardbau is reachable from the ground if you have a reach weapon, are large, have lunge, or, with likely getting AoOed, fly of spiderwalk.
The ceiling is 15 feet up, the Bardbau occupies the top 5 feet, and threatens, with his bite, the "middle 5 feet" and with his Bardiche the bottom 5 feet.
Force hook charge would definitly do the force hook damage (8) (remember the SR check).
If you fail the SR check, I actually think the movement still goes off, just the 8 damage are negated. It would be similar to trying to greater teleport someone who is resisting the attempt, you would still teleport, the target does not.
If you miss the touch attack (not impossible, the Babau is quite agile and dodgy, but Elliots ranged touch is pretty high I assume) I think nothing happens (even if, physically, the force hook would hit the ceiling behind him), note that the prone penalty does not apply to the touch attack.
Looking at the rules, I think Elliot gets all of his attacks in, as part of spell combat, before he begins to fall, even if he isnt flying/spiderwalking.
Note however that he is still prone when he makes his full attack, as the "lands on his feet" part happens at the end.
He could take a fair bit of damage from a) the secondary AoO and b) the babaus protective slime ability (DC18 reflex negates), I have been mostly ignoring the latter as a d8 acid is kind of trivial, and Azira in particular only fails this on a nat 1, and these Babaus wear (acid resistant) clothing and armor, which reduces their sliminess considerably, but given Elliots fairly low hp as well as the badly hurt state of the Bardbau, right now I would be looking at that as well.
In the case he gets knocked unconcious from a combination of the Bardbaus AoO and his protective slime ability, I think the result is that he falls, on his feet, and then falls prone without taking falling damage.
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Also, general note:
I try to keep fighting challenging, which requires considerable changes to the encounter as written. If I run this encounter as written, it is... 2 babaus. Thats it. 2 babaus (who then telepathically alert a bunch of CR2 Vampire spawn). Like, it wouldnt even be worth rolling initiative for this.
I realized there is an alternative that will work better with all of that in mind. I'll get up a post today.
Paizo was doing weird stuff with the rolls. Didn't realize it moves d20 rolls if you put one another in front of ones that were already rolled. Should be fixed now.
And Elliot has Acid Resistance 5.