GM Foxy's 2nd Legacy of Fire

Game Master Foxy Quickpaw

Well that's thoroughly annoying. Do we need to find another platform?

Would be nice if there were an alternative that doesn't ask you to pledge your soul to get an account, or best case doesn't ask for an account at all. If someone knows something like that it would be great.

I can push it into the slides for you if you tell me what images you do need.

The request was for the caves of the isles of not. Page 25 of the AP book.

Bump! Have it there.

Thank you Ohrmizd!

Yes, thank you Ohrmizd. Looks great.

Are we still in initiative?

Are we still in initiative?

Your decision.

Yes, please remain in initiative. We still have some stuff up and running.

I assume it is your turn to move to the next spot you want to check. So far I only got ooc discussions what to do next, if I didn't miss something.

Sam can dimensional step into the room but what good does that do us? How do we get everyone in there?

Do you want me to finish them off without you?

I assume it is your turn to move to the next spot you want to check. So far I only got ooc discussions what to do next, if I didn't miss something.

Did Samuel actually figure out and get into the concealed caves (yellow dashed boxes)? Like he thought he did, Link. If so, we know about at least one of them... and it might be time for Samuel to speak up.

Yes, you missed this question Foxy. Do we know about the concealed caves in the dashed yellow boxes from our previous visit?

Sam can dimensional step into the room but what good does that do us? How do we get everyone in there?

Do you want me to finish them off without you?

I suspect that would involve you getting finished off, not the other way around...

However, if we know the spaces are there, I wonder if the substance of this island is close enough to stone for our Shaitan allies to stone shape the ways open for us?

I suspect that would involve you getting finished off, not the other way around...

If I could cast a spell I might could pull it off. So far I fired off 3 spells that just fizzed. O for 3.

On th emap it looks like they are separated, but nothing in the description hints that they are not connected to the rest of the complex.

And last time I simpl ygave you the description when investigating the area.

A new map, Mr. Map Man. All that old s##!e can go.

interesting what the site turned the word "s#*@e" into
.

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"Is there a way to stop these outsiders from moving all over the place?" Heshan asked as he made his way towards the ship where the other one jumped down.

Usually dimensional anchor works for that, but it is too niche of a spell I doubt any of us knows it.

I can prepare that tomorrow. All I have today is mad monkeys which would cause concentration issues. Problem there is casting time of one round.

You get a fort save.

I am now confused, Heshan rolled his Fort save. Does it mean Ohrmizd needs to roll Fort to hit the protean?

I believe I saw Heshan modify his post that originally did not include a save.

I believe I saw Heshan modify his post that originally did not include a save.

That.

downside of an edit is, that I don't see it in my notifyer.

Oh, yeah, that is a problem. I usually drop a post in discussion in those cases, just to note I edited :)

How long is Heshan nauseated for?

How long is Heshan nauseated for?

10 rounds if you can't get rid of the cause. Which you do not know yet how to do that. And as you only get move actions, you can't do it yourself either.

"If you think behaving like a sheep is going to raise your odds of getting paid I have to tell you you have very little understood how the likes of Obherak think and treat others, my friend "

Assuming you are right about Obherak, he wasn't there to observe your display of dominant behaviour. Also the spinx works for Obherak. Calling a proud creature a pet raises the question if the Sphinx would care about Obherak's opinion about eating you. And even Obherak could stand and watch while you get eaten, staying true to the deal with all who don't end up sphinx food. Or he could decide that you starting a fight with his guardian is a breach of contract from your side. I have a hard time coming up with a scenario where it would actually beneficial to your cause where you want to not fight Obherak.

Just my two cents worth about how the situation could have played out if it weren't averted.

I am sorry my behavior is causing frustration on you. But your way of acting and removing agency from the other players is constantly frustrating me too. I want to play a cocky guy in a light and surreal game were to laugh at every inconsistency and fumble, while you want to play a cold headed master planner in a heavy and realistic game where every action is meaningful and any misstep can mean the end of the adventure. I do not see any solution that would reconcile both expectations and so far I understood we were just trying to play along and limit the frustration as much as possible in order to have as much a pleasant time together as possible.

There is a lot we could talk about the convenience or inconvenience of bothering or not bothering Obherak and his minions and the level of respect with which they should be approached, or whether if Ohrmizd has been unsuccessfully trying to start a brawl with them, but now, this tone

Ohrmizd, will you please quit being a dumbass!

is totally out of place and crosses a line of personal respect. What are you expecting from me and this game after insulting a fellow player out of character?

I'm not frustrated. I just wanted to give you some insight what your action might cause from my perspective. So you know what to expect and are not disappointed if the creatures you are cocky to, don't laugh at it.

I know you were just trying to make clear the consequences of provoking the shaitans, thanks for that Foxy. NPCs have not tended to talk to us nicely either through all of our adventures, and although I kind of got used to your direct speech through the years and try to work with it when they harsh talk us, I do not feel the need to talk nicely back when I feel there is trouble ahead anyway. My post was not a direct answer to yours though, nor it was directed at you, sorry for the confusion.

Sometimes you just have to be a total jerk without that intent. Typically it is best to vent rather than explode. Are you two done or should I conjure a room for you?

I am sorry my behavior is causing frustration on you. But your way of acting and removing agency from the other players is constantly frustrating me too. I want to play a cocky guy in a light and surreal game were to laugh at every inconsistency and fumble, while you want to play a cold headed master planner in a heavy and realistic game where every action is meaningful and any misstep can mean the end of the adventure. I do not see any solution that would reconcile both expectations and so far I understood we were just trying to play along and limit the frustration as much as possible in order to have as much a pleasant time together as possible.

There is a lot we could talk about the convenience or inconvenience of bothering or not bothering Obherak and his minions and the level of respect with which they should be approached, or whether if Ohrmizd has been unsuccessfully trying to start a brawl with them, but now, this tone

Quote:

Ohrmizd, will you please quit being a dumbass!

is totally out of place and crosses a line of personal respect. What are you expecting from me and this game after insulting a fellow player out of character?

What I want from you is to stop being utterly stupid in character.

Your PC is an experienced adventurer and has a wisdom of 16, and a +16 diplomacy mod; why are you acting like some sort of third rate thug trying to pick a fight with everything that moves? Yet you persist in trying to start random fights with what Foxy has already told us is a CR 15 encounter when we're 10th level (not to mention have burned the vast majority of our spells for the day and prepared for a completely different fight...).

Why do I want this?
I like to win the games I play, including RPGs - that doesn't mean dying a random and avoidable fight, while the big bad guy goes on to complete his evil scheme...

Why should you do this?
If this were a poker table and it was only your chips you were pushing into the middle of the table hoping to hit a full house on the river, that would be your business. But this is a team game, and when you do stuff like this, you're pushing my chips, Heshan's chips, Samuel's chips, (and presumably Foxy's chips as well - presumably he's running this game because he likes it; if not, I'd suggest retiring it - ain't no law saying he has to GM for us) into the middle of the table along with yours... That's a problem.

Addendum.

Yeah, sometimes in RPG's, you have to bet everyone's butt on your PC pulling it off, or just on praying for luck. But this ain't that, and you know it.

1. It is difficult for me to settle things down when I see no effort for amendment or apology at the other side.

2.

[..]stop being utterly stupid in character.

This is completely your opinion and a strong, aggressive, bullying way to put it down. You argue Ohrmizd antagonizes NPCs, yet you show no remorse in using harsher speech and attitude with Heshan, Samuel or me.

3.

has a wisdom of 16, and a +16 diplomacy mod; why are you acting like some sort of third rate thug trying to pick a fight with everything that moves?

yeah, and Ohrmizd has Cha 8 and Intimidate +21 also, now, who decides how Ohrmizd shall act?

Also, and for reference, Ohrmizd initial attitude with the shaitans was amicable, it was Obherak brusque introduction which changed all (which was a not very subtle hint from the GM that this was the enemy to be hated) and yet Ohrmizd reacted with only kind words.

4.

I like to win the games I play, including RPGs

And you are trying to beat the GM? the author? or the other players perhaps? Giving you my best thoughts, I think your sense of victory is to reach the end of book 6 having fought as little encounters as possible, avoided all traps and received 0 or as near as possible to 0 hits. The problem is... we other players get bored. Ohrmizd starts seeking fights memorable enough to tell Haleen about with a bottle of whisky in between, Foxy begins "whatever, you win" wrapping up things, Samuel calls Heshan Peshan for lack of any other entertainment, and Heshan tries to sparkle some laughs doing a few pesh things.

5.

Yet you persist in trying to start random fights with what Foxy has already told us is a CR 15 encounter when we're 10th level

The Kheleshite will do back the way to the top of the bowl and greet the sphinx there, throwing the remains of the proteans in the front entrance "Ok, our part is done. Now tell your owner to send us back to our home"

And only thing I see here as confrontational is the word owner that can be seen as Ohrmizd disregarding the Sphinx. Let me explain then, that this all comes from Ohrmizd attempts to be friendly with the Sphinx before, even going to the point of looking for riddles for her, and yet she showed no positive reaction back. But besides some venting on that, what I was trying to accomplish in here is to trigger some thoughts on the sphinx that Obherak is treating her as a slave. Foxy stated here that "maybe" the Sphinx shall join the fight, which I interpret as "it can be convinced to fight Obherak or at least to stay neutral" if things go wrong and Obherak decides he prefers to kill us. So that's it, Ohrmizd is trying to make the Sphinx realize she is a slave under Obherak, not to start a fight with her.

For the rest of Ohrmizd actions in that paragraph: to greet the Sphinx, to leave the protean bodies in the entrance to show the work is down, and to let our interlocutor tell Obherak we are done, what can be confused with a desire to fight? I have already expressed my opinion on Obherak and my desire to finish this and put earth in between. Why would I want to enter again the loop? That does not mean I want to talk with them like they are old friends. And that way of talking does not mean I want a fight here. So why I am a dumbass exactly? Because I am trying to make the Sphinx realize Obherak considers her a slave, because the shaitans have showed us no friendliness, or because I am informing them the job is done?

And just for reference Obherak called us all men slaves, and yet you did not complain for the GM provoking us into a fight, and on the contrary you judged wise to strike a deal with this bully and coward, honor the deal, and complain to Ohrmizd for feeling angry and resented for helping a slaver and the evilest NPC we have found in the whole Kakishon.

And as all this convoluted reaction shows, no, this is no random fight. This was the core conflict of the book.

6.

But this is a team game, and when you do stuff like this, you're pushing my chips, Heshan's chips, Samuel's chips

This is very unfair for you to say when I have always deferred to others preferences when being called out, stepping back when needed. On the contrary I have been very accommodating to Omari's worries like when you made us talk through notes in the map, when you have come up with plans that derailed the current direction of action, or in general selfishly giving my time to help others with map issues or tracking down equipment.

In contrast you have been forcing the party to bend over your preferences when it comes to what to do, how to fight or even what spells should everyone cast and when. And just for reference in case someone forgot already, these is what you wrote in your notes when you forced us to go kill the proteans: "It is my faith to resist such destruction. Indeed, I will stand against you, sundering our fellowship, if necessary to do so." Now you come and tell me not to place the party chips on something of just my will.

I have come to respect what you add to this table even if that means some back and forth and some tension every now and then. Now, I would not accept you suggest I do not take into consideration what others are trying to achieve, nor I will accept you using my character name to insult me.

7. Now, if you are still at a lost, doing at least a few of the following can be very helpful to keep me in a collaborative mood:
- Apologize for the insult.
- Recognize the existence and validity of different play styles.
- Acknowledge only Foxy's will makes an idea workable or not and it is not your function here to judge what proposals from others might or might not work.
- Stop telling others what to do or say.

@Ohrmizd
I can't help with the personal quarrel you now have with Omari.

But I'd like to comment on this

Quote:

The Kheleshite will do back the way to the top of the bowl and greet the sphinx there, throwing the remains of the proteans in the front entrance "Ok, our part is done. Now tell your owner to send us back to our home"

And only thing I see here as confrontational is the word owner that can be seen as Ohrmizd disregarding the Sphinx.

In communication theory there is what you want to convey and there is what the listener actually receives.

There are two levels to this. The one is with the Sphinx. You have a proud creature, ages old, who is used to eat people for answering thier riddles wrongly. Who agreed to serve a master who is even more powerful. As a hero you might even be able to kill the sphinx in a one on one with your 10 levels, but from the sphinx' perspective, you as a puny human are below her in standing. You are seeking an audience with Obherak and she is the gate keeper. With that in mind, that sentence of yours lacks any respect. You throw severed heads at her feet, and ORDER her in condescending tone to tell her owner. That might not be like you intended it, but that is how I read it.
A real life equivalent of this lack of respect comes to mind, when tourists stand in the way of excercising guards in front of Buckingham Palace.

The other level to that is towards the party and in particular Omari. Maybe I'm a wuss and therefore my NPCs are easily offended by you being cocky. But you managed to offend Dilix. You almost got Obherak to kill the party right away. And with that experience you already made, you should know what to expect from me and my NPCs. And with that background, this sentence of yours reads like a big F*$% YOU to the current party plans. Like you had it with playing nice and would start to rile up the shaitans all over again.

This might not be what you wanted to do. But it is the message that I saw. I didn't want to start a fight right away, so I only wrote "Come again?". And from Omari's reaction, I guess he read it the same way.

@Omari & @Ohrmizd
I think your dispute needs to be resolved one way or the other for the game to continue. One advice someone gave me, that I found helpful: Apologize for what you didn't intend and you are actually sorry for. Don't apologize for what you meant as you said it. And then see if there is a way to move on together or if you part ways.

Eff you, Omari. You are right but there is no need to be an a$$ as well. Thanks for ruining the game for everyone. I could take you in gameplay like a cat would take a mouse. GTFO with that narcissistic bullshlt.

Eff you, Omari. You are right but there is no need to be an a$$ as well. Thanks for ruining the game for everyone. I could take you in gameplay like a cat would take a mouse. GTFO with that narcissistic bullshlt.

OK.

Then my character can take your character smack... and you want to say I'm an A$$...

Apologies to Foxy for having this blow up like this, but I'm out. Have fun with your game gents.

Okay, things have gotten off the rails here.

Ohrmizd, I like you both as a player and as your character, but getting into trouble like this can be grating.

Omari, I don't think this is intentional and it's just a matter of discussion of what the character should act like.

Samual... come on. There was no need to throw fuel to the fire like that.

And quite frankly, it's been harder to be motivated into continuing this campaign at this rate. It's been trying paying attention with all the negativity and this isn't helping.

C'mon Omari, this is no way to solve things up. All I am asking for is a bit of understanding and tact on dealing with what was perhaps not the best array of interactions in our side.

Every now and then we all get in a direction that clashes with some other character or player motivations. We all have bad days and communicate past the line. But it should be possible to go back and fix things with more clear and respectful speech, trying to understand we work only with partial information of what is going on in the other one's head.

This is just a game, we should give us some room to make errors, that's why we are there to support each other when one misses to understand or communicate, another one can take over and try to solve things with a different approach. If we jump at each other each time something is done in a way that clashes with our motivations, then we are only stressing up each other and there is no space to build up a real team or enjoy our journey.

I brought this up to solve things, try to understand better what is the source of frustration between each other (because it was not punctual even if this time a higher line was crossed), and align things between us. Samuel message only serves to alienate Omari and does not make things better for anyone in the long run. Let's all try to learn from this and be better, rather than just throw the towel and mark it as impossible.

There is something the GM said that made me realize about one of the problems here. Foxy said "in condescending tone", but this is written message and I wrote no adjective on how Ohrmizd was speaking. So I think because the image Ohrmizd has set up of himself and expectations coming from him, the theater of the mind showed his interaction with a tone multiple times multiplied over the intended tone.

If it serves to resolve things, and following Foxy's advise, I am sorry if Ohrmizd has not been diplomatic enough, and hear me state very clearly I have no intention to start a brawl here with Obherak at this point we are so close to leave Kakishon.

That said, I am going to need help from you guys, because Obherak is requesting a faithful of Sarenrae, goddess of mercy, to kill an unharmed, undefended prisoner to seal our deal.

Ok, so Heshan asked me to stick my nose back in...

@ Ohrmizd, you and I, we clearly have really different ideas about what’s being provocative to assorted folks, and to be blunt, Foxy’s kinder as a GM than I would be.

With me GMing, you would have started a fight with Obherak the first time you tried to b%&#~@!~ him and then called him out as a coward and tried to undercut his leadership. His political position as warlord pretty much means he can’t let a public insult like that stand... No matter how good a diplomacy or intimidate roll you make. Foxy let us (the party) walk away - I would have buried a party that did that with everything the Shaitans could throw at them.

And next negotiation you proposed killing him, out loud (note, if you had just thought that, using italics, that would have been fine) - a successful perception check by Obherak, that would have been another fight right then and there there...,

I have no idea what you were trying to do, with Rayhan here , but it looks like starting trouble to me...

You do this kind of thing all over the place, and I don’t get it at all...

However, I would suggest that if you want to use intimidate as a social effect (I’d advise against, it has negative side effects – the usual advice wrt to social skills is first try Diplomacy, then Bluff, and Intimidate as a last resort), I’d suggest rolling it as part of the post, and perhaps telling Foxy what you’re trying to do in an out-of-character comment...

@ Ohrmizd, I don't want to be insulting and this may be an unfair question, but is English a second language for you?

As to why I ask, when I look through your comments, a lot of them appear to misinterpret (what I think, I suppose) Foxy's telling us when his language gets fancy, for example, you say that "And just for reference Obherak called us all men slaves", and the link goes to this:

"Only fools would wish to leave paradise!" Obherak comments.

And to Samuel "On the contrary. They are the ones damaging this realm. Had this realm’s creator slain them after their work building this realm was completed rather than just banishing them to the Isles of Not, Kakishon would have endured forever! Yet he was crippled by cowardice and compassion, I suspect, as are all men—he could not bring himself to slay his slaves, and instead just locked them away in a place where their anger would be allowed to fester and grow."

"If you want to see the earth seed, you have to agree first. I have one protean imprisoned there, this would be your first protean to slay."

Obherak's not calling all men slaves there, he's saying that Nex was crippled by "cowardice and compassion", as evidenced by Nex locking the Proteans away rather than killing them and that he (Obherak) suspects that all men are similarly crippled by the same thing (what he calls cowardice and compasssion).

Finally, WRT to the last protean, as a chaotic good follower of Sarenrae ( also known as the Redeemer), you could not bring yourself to execute a prisoner, as an Inquisitor, I would suggest you have enough leeway to look the other way while someone else does the job...

Omari is Lawful Good; If Sultan Obherak, the local law, has convicted said prisoner of a death penalty crime (say trying to exterminate the local Shaitans), while I might offer the Protean the opportunity to speak in its own defense, if I am not convinced by it's speech, I can execute a condemned criminal if necessary.

As to how to offer it a chance to speak in it's own defense without offering it a chance to escape - establish a binding diagram with magic circle vs chaos (as if summoning), and then fortify the circle with a dimensional anchor. Cast Zone of Truth, and ask it what it has to say for itself? Did it try to exterminate the shaitans?

If that helps to solve things at your side, I am open to remove the cocky and inquisitive traits of Ohrmizd personality.

I hope this statement helps you take similar steps to close the gap between us.

What is the holdup at this point?

I interpreted the last sentence from Ohrmizd as a question to Omari and was waiting for a response.

In the meantime I asked Samuel via PM if he is going to apologize for the insults he threw at Omari. He will not. And so he is out of this game.

Question is now if we are still trying to make this work, or if we call it quits.

That will be up to the other two.

I am in if you still want to play with me.

Sorry, things got very busy here, but that appears to be blowing over. Will try to get a post in tonight.

After all the hold up I wanted to move on and threw you directly into the first encounter in the new place. But a quick check showed, that you are supposed to be level 11 for the start of this new place, so you might consider a level up first, before you dish the hurt to those unfriendly creatures.

Man, if there was ever a time I wish the martials went first. I don't see any movement options that won't have Heshan eat an AoO.