NPC Party to challenge PCs, how to defeat it?


Advice


Hi all. I was asked to make an NPC party of four made to be a weaker rival group for an eventual confrontation over prestige or loot but not morality or other issues to kill over. As such it's to be a neutral aligned group of that is three levels lower than the PCs and can't be really bad stuff like master summoner. The target level is 7 with option to go upward for possible reuse. I'm left in dark of the PC composition or even their number. Scene is set here is the brief gist of my four....

1) halfling paladin (hospitalier) who uses fates favored. The build is to use fey touch, toughness, quick channel, and reactive healing to make sure that he never goes down. With his never going down he uses channeling in emergencies only or for reactive healing.

2) half orc invulnerable rager/urban bar with a double weapon and a bow for backup. Just swings and swings time and time again for all the damage it can muster with high health and superstition keepin him going.

3) LN ecclisitheurge cleric of Alichino based on trickery and madness. Obviously a debuffer most of the time with a hint of reach, no combat reflexes, and bestow curse metamagic.

4) human preacher inquisitor of Desna. Using luck/fate domain and preachers ability to get rerolls on top of human feats for rerolls this character is made to well reroll.

So what I NEED? Is this too good? What weaknesses does this have that I can make more vulnerable so that the PCs can win? Am I prolonging the fight too much with such strong defensive abilities?


PC's generally have better stats and more wealth so they should win unless you make the opposing team much higher in level than the party.

How much of a challenge is this supposed to be?
If each NPC is two level lower than the party then each NPC will have a CR of APL-3 but as a whole they should be APL+1

Target level is 7<----Is that the level the NPC's will be or is that the level the PC's are?

The group suggest needs more firepower IMHO. They appear to be playing defense except for the barbarian.

PS: Without knowing your group though it is hard to say. A challenge for one group can be a walk in the park for another group.


NPC target is 7 PC target is 10. The challenge level is my bringing a party that punches above its weight class. meaning that it's completely overshadowed by the PCs and underpowered but can make it a tough fight that the PCs should win. I'm guessing they the NPCs are meant to drain resources and never meant to win but that's only my opinion.

To your point of being defensive would you say dropping the reroll feats of the inquisitor would change that dynamic sufficiently? I've been debating this as at this level of 7 or 8 it's just too few feats for archery and reroll I'm thinking


You have classes that do recovery thing and rerolls, but they don't really put the PC's in any danger except for the barbarian. If the party takes him down fast the other 3 will go down without much trouble

As for expending ___% of resources don't worry about it. What I look at it is how many times the party can fight before they have to rest, assuming no lucky dice roll streaks on either side.

I would drop that paladin for a ranger or slayer.

Just as a reminder If the NPC's are level 7 they will be a CR 6.

By level 7 with a ranger or slayer you can have the following for archery.

1 Point Blank Shot
2 Ranger feat Precise Shot
3 Rapid Reload
5 Deadly Aim
6 ranger feat Improved Precise Shot
7 Manyshot

I would go with the slayer or ranger(guide archetype)

As for the cleric and inquisitor I would try to make at least one of them combat focused, and trade the other for a bard. His performance will help the rest of the team in combat, and he has buffs, healing, and maybe some debuffs.

This gives you a competent lineup without them being superstrong.


I can't see how I can lose the paladin, he's the guy that keeps the barb going and everyone else going. Plus he's decent damage dealing in his own right just because you can't kill him until he runs out of lay of hands and channels.

Add on: the GM replied back to me on a message saying that a level 8 cleric is good with him as a leader to enable the level 8 madness domain power.


The real edge you can get in this fight is based in how good the PC's teamwork actually is.

Not all groups coordinate well or even back up each other to maximize their strengths. Your advantage here is that you have total control over your npc meaning you can set up different tactics that you know they will do when you need them to do so.

To that end, you should try to create a group that compliment each other or capable to pull off several combined actions.

Another thing you should consider is the terrain itself. Unless this is an impromptu encounter, should you include a scout type character into your npc group, you could get insight about the battlefield and even set up an ambush for the PC's.

Try several strategies like hit and run tactics, lure monsters to them to debilitate the party and deplate their resources, focus all attacks on one character, etc.

In the end, it will be like a chess battle against your PC's but with worse pieces.


I don't see how your halfling Paladin will be doing anything like decent damage. Doesn't fit too well with the neutral theme either.

With a three level deficit (presumably in wealth too) all your characters will be having a bit of a difficulty making most things 'stick' either attacks or spells, although the 8th level madness cleric will help with that a bit, which means he will probably only get a round or two before he is dead.

Basically, a CR 10 fight (which is what this is) won't be very memorable for an APL 10 party. It is just an average encounter that they don't really have to spend much effort on.

Optimization can swing a CR or two. Madness is a fairly optimal domain power, the rest of your builds seem fairly average (with defense taking a priority over offense, which since the game favors offense probably means you are trading actual danger of the encounter for a slightly longer battle.) Unless the PCs are very unoptimized, I expect this will be a quick an easy fight and afterward the players are going to go "We had an archenemy? I didn't even notice that."

Of course a fair bit of this is outside of your control, since you seem just be be doing the grunt work of building PCs, not actually running the game, but it is worth mentioning to the GM.

In building a 4 person party I go with 2 strikers, 1 buffer and 1 controller. Your cleric can be a decent control build. Barbarian is of course a fine striker, although I would just go with 2-handed rather than double weapon. I would want a Bard or a second cleric with the Evangelist template to be the primary buffer, a second reach cleric would be particularly powerful choice. And for my second striker I would want an archer build.

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