Shadow Over the Dales (Inactive)

Game Master dickie

I made a statline :)

Looks good, thanks! Beau needs to get his updated as well. Beau also needs to make sure I have the full alias info, just ask if you need help! Check how others have formatted theirs, or stick a link to an external sheet like some folks have.

The commander guy is actually about five feet away, so Alyna needs to move to get to him. Also, I need to verify, but I think with multiple melee attacks movement would occur during the initial "first pass" of initiative. I'm starting to look at the multiple attack rules a lot like Shadowrun style initiative, so pass seems the right word. I'm going to assume taking the insulting boss man out and not forcing an AoO is your preference, lol.

EDIT/UPDATE Actually, the way the initiative just rolled out, you don't need to move to close, he came to Alyna. But I'm still pretty sure that the second attack factor means no movement afterwards. You may not be standing after this shakes out, lol, so it may not matter.

I'm still screwing movement rules up all around by the way, bear with me. I forgot that moving into melee is half-speed, for instance. Really, what you'd expect from 3.x and beyond, just the action economy is less well defined across the rules. There is a part of me that wants to just start rewriting/organizing AD&D crap on my own for a better format, lol. If i win the lottery I'll have time for that.

So, the Lieutenant hit me and damaged me with these rolls, right?
Attack: 17 - 1d20 - 2 ⇒ 17 - (17) - 2 = -2
Damage: 1d8 + 3 ⇒ (4) + 3 = 7

Of course, I'm ok with that. After all, I'm a player in your world. But... It would mean that our adversary is a level 4 fighter with str 17 and weapon specialization, if I'm reading it right.

That, at level 1, is quite an adversary, and I'm quite proud to have slain him in one round, and not at all ashamed to have taken a lot of damage.

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As to movement. I don't think you're correct about the movement inhibitions. If you are, then those inhibitions are in not a single book I've read, and I own about a meter (that's 3'4") of 2nd edition books, if I'd stack 'm all up.

The whole idea of movement before or after combat, about attacks of opportunity, threat ranges, or even flanking, entered the D&D world with 3rd edition. 2nd edition, as far as I know, didn't have those concepts.

Bear in mind, too, that a round takes a full minute. The attack rolls we make are the attacks, during our heroic fight, that even stand a chance in the first place. The rest of the minute is hopping around, staring angrily, shouting insults, running after one another, gathering magical power, and/or delivering blows to each other and deflecting them. In such a heroic battle, I've always played it like you could move to just about wherever you'd like. After all, disengaging, walking backwards, and such is implied in the flavor description of the combat round.

However... The enemy can move about just as much. So, moving away doesn't save anyone from being hit that round. Perhaps it'd save you from being hit the next round if your opponent didn't choose to move with you, or if your opponent is a dwarf :D

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As it stands. The 2nd edition rules are much more suitable for the theater of the mind style of play than any edition since. In fact, I've played it without any use of a board or models for about 10 years straight, and my friends from that time actively make fun of me when I show them pictures of me playing Pathfinder with my new group (and maps and models). So, in that, it is actually great for forum play. I mean... Attack wasted? Not necessary... just use the attack roll for another opponent 50' away. Just... loosen up. There aren't many rules. It's descriptive, heroic gameplay. And you, as a DM, can do just about anything to keep a combat interesting and flowing.

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That said. Since I now have only 3HP left, the last thing I want to do is charge forward, so I'm quite alright where I currently am, hitting the opponents that are focusing on my allies.

You are correct in your assessment of his stats, lol. It may be a "shakedown cruise" fight, but it's also partly a lead-in to my own story thread and therefore deserves at least one substantial threat. And honestly, at this point the morale checks kick in for the rest of the Zhents, lol.

My main reasoning for the movement/attacks comes from the way the multiple attacks rules are phrased combined with the half-move and attack rule. If you can move half speed and make a single attack, then multiple attacks implies no movement. This is again implied under "what you can do in one round". I would allow minor adjustments (5' step, basically) with full attacks, but it for sure reads to me as being the same elemental action economy as 3.x. I would also allow a single attack and move. It isn't expressly stated, but again implied heavily.

Regardless, I'm going to do some research. Check forums and Combat and Tactics.

Well, C&T addresses the problems by implementing an actual phase based initiative system, but adjusting for that it does seem that movement with full attacks is intended.

Obviously the half-speed-into-melee factor and AoOs help keep people with high movement in check. So keep that in mind: when closing to melee to attack, you can either move half speed or charge.

Side note: do you all want to include the movement modifiers for high ability scores? Just adds variety.

Side note: do you all want to include the movement modifiers for high ability scores? Just adds variety.

I'm neutral on that one. Never played with it.

Speaking about thief... Xune... Have you noticed how you could take a slot in ambidex or in two weapon fighting, to remove that -2 you have on your off hand? That stuff is in Combat and Tactics, in Skills and Powers and it might also have its first printing in the fighter's handbook ;)

Indeed, but it would cost slots and I'm not really a fan of those later rules to be honest. I'd rather just wait for some dex equipment that can increase my reaction mod further. I'm just kind of using TWF for the moment to offset the high thac0 (2 chances to hit).

Aiming for the deck of many things? :D

Not sure I would have the balls for that, but gauntlets of dex would be nice. Really not that concerned with combat and am ok playing with thief skills and NWP out of combat. That's really my favorite part of the game...but occasional backstab is nice. ;P 2e thief just will always have a special place in my heart, its probably irrational in the final analysis.

I think it's great that you play a thief! It completes our party :)

You can leave the slaughter to the fighters ;)

I'm also thrilled to have a thief in the party. It feels classic.

By the way sorry for taking so long with my turn. Had a busy couple of days and just couldn't get a post up until now. That's not typical of me. I also had to learn about combat spellcasting.

Also, seeing as how Watchers are all about being protectors, I was thinking it might be fun to share a backstory with someone. Basically I would be someone's sworn shield. Any takers?

Well... since I'm recruited by the Harpers, we could pair up on this. But I would hate you for the fact that I'd be forced to consider a human an equal teammate.
Perhaps others are a better match.

Thanks for the heal, though! :)

DM

Just wondering. I've been playing sylvan elf as a different language from high elf.

Do you like it that way, or would you prefer to just have 'elvish' and maybe 'drow', and nothing else?

Davin I'd be down if you want to work something out. Lord knows she will need some protecting. Xune is not the most morally forward character though. Perhaps she did Davin a favor somehow and he reluctantly was forced to swear his protection oath. If that's not interesting, no worries.

...and I just realized I never actually finished the backstory for this character on my profile. So its pretty wide open at this point. :D But I was thinking she was from the smaller urban remnants that dot the Cormanthyr forest...acquiring and trading illicit historical artifacts, etc. Maybe she recovered something important to Helm.

It would be close enough to other spoken languages in the Tel'Quesser language group that you can keep it for flavor that way without it impacting your ability to converse with other elves. There are a lot of languages in the Realms, so I'm thinking of it as a dialect (probably with it's own idioms and accents). There could be some misunderstandings as a result, of course...

Then, if you don't mind, I'll just regard 'elven' as a language (with sylvan elf and sun elf and moon elf dialects). Which means I've got a spare slot. I would've chosen draconic (as it is a major arcane language), but that now seems cheesy.

I'd just like to play it as me having room to learn another language, as soon as I learned (or got bored of) common.

Or... I could just take treeant or some such.

What do you think?

Draconic is fine. I feel like I remembered another common magical language in the Realms, but just can't recall what it was. There is an ancient elven magical language, but it's a nearly dead language.

I'd allow you to hold the slot open or pick something else entirely.

Yep, I'm cool with being Xune's steadfast protector. And I'm even okay with you having saved his life. I'll let you decide how. I assume that at the time neither of us thought we would see each other again.

But then a few weeks later, Xune wakes up in a tavern room, with Davin a few feet from her, reading from a book. She is heavily bandaged but feels completely fine. She remembers getting in over her head, and manging to escape. But she was bleeding profusely, and barely conscious. She made it to some alleyway, and the last thing she remembered was some large man in plate armor.

When she confronted Davin about it, he informed her that he found her nearly dead. He healed her and brought her to the tavern.

"I believe Helm wants me to protect you," he tells her simply. When Xune scoffs and asks why, he says, "Because I have studied for years to be a Watcher of Helm. And I have prayed every single day that I would be an instrument of his divine justice. But before last night, I have never cast a single spell. I never had the gift. I do not know why, but Helm wants you alive. And until I hear otherwise, it is my sworn duty to keep you that way."

Also, I don't think my character would give yours any grief about your choices. If you asked his opinion he would give it to you. But otherwise he lets you live.

"I am sworn to be your shield. Not your father."

Draconic is fine. I feel like I remembered another common magical language in the Realms, but just can't recall what it was. There is an ancient elven magical language, but it's a nearly dead language.

I'd allow you to hold the slot open or pick something else entirely.

Cool :)

Thorass?

Seldruin?

I should point out that I really don't mind the elvish being thrown around. I was just being a sassy boy for comedic effect. In fact, it's given me an idea for roleplay. Maybe Davin is feeling left out and self-conscious, and maybe he'll even ask Xune to teach him the language.

And were Forgotten Realms elves traditionally very tall? I know my 5e PHB says that elves basically top out at just over 6 feet, and 145 pounds--which basically makes them walking toothpicks to a 6 foot, 6 inch, 220 lb. human in full plate armor.

But honestly it wouldn't surprise me much if that were the case. I love the Realms, I really do, but, boy, continuity means jack squat in that setting.

Hehe, means your character is about the size of me in real life :D
I'm (and I had to run this through a calculator) 6'6" and 212 lbs

I'm getting less and less sure of what I thought I knew. I thought elves were tall in Faerûn, a bit like the Tolkien elves...

It's good that you don't mind the role playing of bigotry and xenofobia.

I feel awful in the Al Qadim I'm playing in because my character insists on referring to the rogue beggar as Beggar, lol. I reserve the use of his actual name for when it is just the right moment.

So here is the thing I'm debating: theives and spellcasters have bonus awards for using their abilities, but have weird restrictions and rules text that has never sat right with me.

One possible solution I have used in the past is to essentially make any significant use of abilities or spells apply, but reduce the award by a 0. So any spell cast in battle or thief abilities at important moments would grant 10/spell level or 20/use. The other is just to let the DM make the call when it applies, which TBH is less optimal for a number of reasons and increases the chance I will forget. Opinions and thoughts are welcome.

Opinion
Just hand out group xp and give rewards for exceptionally fun, good role playing, or great teamwork .
I killed that level 4 fighter by myself and the rules might suggest that I get his xp, true. But that was only due to good stats and lucky rolls. Not anything else. Also, Davin's heal really helped, afterwards...
It's all just team effort. Even just standing guard while the thief disarms a trap is essential.
Also... Story xp.
I'd say just add it all up and tweak it up or down a little bit for individuals...

I always split group XPs, that's just a given for me. It is the way the bonuses for classes are presented which aggravate me.

Anyway, I will officially figure it all out by the time you are free to roam and explore as you please. Speaking of which just to get the show on the road I'm going to post a move-forward post tomorrow. Just to give folks a chance to take any actions before the riders show up.

Alyna claimed the banded mail, so we can divide the loot proceeds five ways, subtract 200 gp from Alyna's portion and split that 200 between the other 4. Everybody OK with that?

Loot breakdown, assuming a 60% resale value for everything:
5 longswords - 15gp each (75 x.6 = 45)
7 short bows - 30gp each (210 x.6 = 126)
4 studded leather - 20gp each (80 x.6 = 48)
5 small shields - 3gp each (15 x.6 = 9)
1 draft horse - 200gp (200 x.6 = 120)
100 gold coins
=448gp sale value (/5 would be 89.6gp each)

-1 banded mail - 200gp
+112gp to Beau, Devin, Sid, Xune
-110.4gp party debt to Alyna

Huh. Just noticed that I wasn't seeing updates for this board. I never got a notification that any discussion was going on here. That's annoying.

Huh. Just noticed that I wasn't seeing updates for this board. I never got a notification that any discussion was going on here. That's annoying.

That happens to me sometimes to. Usually all I need to do is renew my login by going to "My account >> My Profile" at the top of the page. That usually fixes it for me.

Also Sid, dotting into gameplay (annoyingly) doesn't dot you into discussion. I think that was maybe first discussion post

Alyna claimed the banded mail, so we can divide the loot proceeds five ways, subtract 200 gp from Alyna's portion and split that 200 between the other 4. Everybody OK with that?

Loot breakdown, assuming a 60% resale value for everything:
5 longswords - 15gp each (75 x.6 = 45)
7 short bows - 30gp each (210 x.6 = 126)
4 studded leather - 20gp each (80 x.6 = 48)
5 small shields - 3gp each (15 x.6 = 9)
1 draft horse - 200gp (200 x.6 = 120)
100 gold coins
=448gp sale value (/5 would be 89.6gp each)

-1 banded mail - 200gp
+112gp to Beau, Devin, Sid, Xune
-110.4gp party debt to Alyna

Ooc I'm completely ok with that. Roleplay wise I will bristle against having a debt for utilising something that would otherwise go to waste.

Assuming 60% resale value, though, the used banded mail is worth 120 gp, not 200. She'll be ok if her getting the banded mail means her not getting other loot. That's a simpler way to look at things, which fits her worldview

Good call on multiplying the banded mail value by .6. I'd call 120gp value a wash against a 112gp split for the others.

Since your character's eye rolling about the use of languages and his opinion of my characters' ruralness won't really be made explicit, I can't really react in-game to it :D

But what I want to say about it is this:
Alyna does not speak common "perfectly well". She constantly uses wrong translations and faulty grammar. You might have noticed this in all the things I've made her say in common.

If Sid wants to ignore her faulty understanding of common in favour of having a communal language, then that's fine. But I would say that Sid, being quite intelligent, is well aware that Alyna doesn't speak the language well.

Fair enough. If Alyna seems to be having trouble understanding Common then he'll switch to Elvish for her. His eye roll wasn't specifically about Alyna, it was about half the group speaking Elvish then half the group speaking Dwarven, when it seems like everybody speaks enough Common to be able to understand each other without switching. He spends lots of time with humans, speaking Common more often than not. Once the dragon revealed it could understand Common, Sid was pretty much over switching out of it.

As far as not being able to react to Sid's thinking Alyna is rural, he's too well brought up to be rude to her but is not too well brought up to not think of sylvan elves as the hillbillies of elf-kind. He'll learn how erudite and urban she is, eventually, but right now they've just met.

We've got a nice set of prejudiced louts together, don't we? Davin seems to be the nicest of the bunch :D

Humans, whatdya expect. They don't live long enough to truly understand grudges, lol.

Update coming ASAP, been busy but off work tomorrow.

I can't shapeshift yet so it's prooooobably not safe for me to actually go into Shadowdale; any thoughts from the party?

It would NOT be at all a good idea to be seen in Shadowdale, lol. I do actually have a plan for addressing this particular challenge in the future so you don't have to hide or wait outside town, but side quest type of deal.

Really in Shadowdale you will just have a big exposition scene. I'm thinking I will jump things forward on that later tonight or tomorrow when I post.

So, I pretty much stopped paying attention to FR lore when WOTC switched to 4E and changed everything. Which is great for me, since we're in 1362 DR. But for our other elves doesn't that mean the Cormanthor War hasn't happened yet and Cormanthyr is mostly abandoned, so it's still Myth Drannor and full of demons?

I use the "Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves" source for this and another Dales elf I play. It contains a ton of history (its meant for time travelling to the past type of campaign actually) but includes a timeline up to 1370 DR and details some of the settlements still dotting the forest.

I don't have that book so I'm just going by what's in the FR wiki, so maybe I'm missing some stuff. But in 1362, Myth Drannor is an abandoned ruin full of demons, and the Retreat started 14 years ago, leaving Elven Court, Semberholme, and Tangled Trees mostly empty but not totally abandoned, right?

Even without the Retreat, Cormanthor as a kingdom fell in 714, over 600 years before, and the forest has been infested with demons and goblinoids for the past several centuries, according to the wiki.

I'm writing Sid as if he's from the last remaining elven kingdom on the continent, the last bastion of elven civilization outside Evermeet. If that's wrong I'll change how I'm writing him. Is Alyna claiming lineage from the last coronal, Eltargrim Irithyl? What settlement is Xune from? They're both sophisticated urbanites but I don't see where that's possible in Cormanthor in 1362 DR. I'm not trying to argue, I just want to make sure I'm on the same page as you and Alyna.

I'm far less sure of things as you are. I'm claiming lineage from a still active, minor kingdom in a forest. I'd say they've decided that since they stayed, they're now fully autonomous.

The Harpers besieged my parents for help, and they sent exactly one elf to help. However, they did send their daughter, who is quite well trained. It's still an arrogant move, though, to consider a single elf a huge difference to a cause.

Sid, Xune is from Tangletrees:

Not all elves participated in the Retreat. Some "tarried" or preferred to stay in their Houses. I imagine Xune saw some opportunity in remaining behind, or was simply excited at the chaos ever on her doorstep.

As an aside, I'm still here, just not in town, so I will pop back up once the adventure is underway again. :)

As an aside, I'm still here, just not in town, so I will pop back up once the adventure is underway again. :)

Yay :)

Thanks for the clarification, Xune. I think that's on the wiki as Tangled Trees. It seems like we're all pretty much on the same page.

Yes. That's my only comment, lol.

I have had a lot going on, trying to get caught back up with things today.

Okay, missing exp time!

Everyone: 57 exp/each
Xune: +20 bonus
Davin: +10 bonus
Beau: +5 bonus
Sid: +5 bonus
Alyna: +45 bonus

Don't forget to add +10% if you have prime ability scores for your class(es).

Xenotime, I can't search it at the exact moment, but are there special dragon awards listed or do you end up using the psion chart?

I believe I just use the psion chart (which means I won't earn bonus xp until I've gained a level anyway, as I have no psionic abilities until then). It's not like I used my breath weapon or my charm ability anyway though. :)

What role is needed for checking the items? just a general d20?

By RAW in 2nd edition, you use Appraising nonweapon proficiency to evaluate nonmagical treasure, and you need an identify spell to determine the functions of magical items.