...well, that didn't quite as planned. I think I really screwed up.
I must admit, I wasn't really expecting to be fighting Apocolypse Zombies at this level. Three of those beggars are a CR of between CR 5-6, which might explain partially why we got our asses kicked - although I am assuming they're the same as standard Apocolypse Zombies, they have the same special abilities such as the grab and additional attack, and do the same damage, so there CR is probably pretty similar.
The rest was bad luck (a member down the pit right at the start) which led to bad tactics (largely on my part, since I followed them down the pit). So, I'm really sorry for my part in getting Kayin and Randall killed. I...really did not expect going down there to try and help would trigger a CR 5 encounter, but while it was in character it was really reckless, and it's looking like you guys will suffer for my screw up.
Hey, don't sweat it, I personally liked the dive into the pit thing. But, you know, for the future? Try to stick the landing, yeah?
And nobody's dead until their stuff has been divided up among the survivors either, so let's see what Titan's skill check does and if there's enough rattling around in Randall to pull back to some semblance of mostly dead instead of dead dead.
Our great and powerful GM is currently in the hinterlands somewhere, with an Internet connection that is apparently two cans and a string when it exists at all. So he likely won't be doing updates until either later this week, or possibly early next week.
I'm back home from my whirlwind tour of Ireland. I'll be catching up on the campaignes over the next 24 hours and will get us rolling again.
Hope everyone had a safe and fun 4th of July.
Val
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@All - I've been emailing with Randall for the past couple of weeks. He's opted not to create a new character at this time. RL has reared up on him and he's pulling back from playing. Hopefully, we'll see him in the future.
Just didn't want all of you thinking that I killed him and never addressed it with him.
As a reminder, this campaign is suppose to be dark and difficult. I'm not pulling punches and not trying to "balance" encounters. You may run into situations that its best to run and fight another day.
I'm all for playing a campaign with a measurable element of risk to the characters, but those auto-grappling bomber zombies every encounter are still a bit much for low-level characters like ours. I do feel that those should be parceled out more rarely among standard zombies, only becoming more numerous once we get to a point where just getting caught in the blast of three or four isn't a guaranteed death on its own, never mind any damage taken during the actual fight.
There's a difference between "difficult" and "bend over and grab your ankles, the DM's going in dry," lol. The minotaur was difficult. The exploding corpses, thus far, have been more toward the other end of the scale.
Well, DM's rules. If we're gonna fight those guys as standard enemies it's going to be rough, but we'll just have to focus on fighting them.
I will say that if these guys continue to be the standard enemy, in the same numbers, then we're going to need something to even things out or we're going to need change things, significantly. It's the same as fighting a Babau Demon or Large Elemental every fight in terms of difficulty.
We're down to 4 players, which isn't gonna help.
I think we need to start looking at ways to control our enviroments more, controlling lines of approach. One of these things at a time is managable, even with the grapple checks. It's two or three of them that are a challenge, and we have to assume there's going to be places that hold even more at once. Spells like Grease are going to be worth there weight in shinies.
Alchemical Grease is going to be something we'll wanna buy shares in, too - it's being grappled that's really hurting us. 5gp for a +5 to CMD, escape checks and the like for four hours is...pretty much essential, at this point.
Tar Bombs, in the right circumstances, are also a nasty option, but we'll need to be careful. Still, setting them on fire and leaving them to burn is...appealing. Tangleroot would be good, but it's pricy for our level to use every fight. Same with Tar Paper.
I'm going to assume caltrops won't have there usual half speed ability on the undead, so they're not much use. Hollow Caltrops, if we can affordsome and load them with Holy Water, will create a bad day for the undead...but the price hurts. We should buy bags of Marbles by the barrel - DC 10 isn't great, but I can't imagine they have a brilliant Reflex save.
We might also wanna try using Mancatchers to lock down enemies for a while, and Syringe Spears if we can get them, loaded with holy water, for charges. Barbed Arrows might offer an advantage.
...it's not gonna be much fun, but I think some combination of these items, combined with some kind of barricade, will be our best bet. If we enter an area, set up defences, blow a horn to attract our new friends, kill them while they're falling over or having their feet melted off by holy water, shoot them with ranged attacks and use braced syringe spears with holy water...then collect our gear, move to the next area and repeat.
The mistake we've been making is letting the undead - which, bar the minotaur, are not big thinkers - dictate our battles. By luring them into killzones we pre-prepare we can negate their biggest strengths, those auto-grappling attacks and the disease they spread.
Thoughts?
As far as item go, more specifically those of an alchemical nature, I gave Kayin the skills for just this very reason. But so far, there hasn't actually been time to make use of the skill and make some items. Even with Valjoen approving speedier Crafting via the Unchained Rules--and honestly, I wouldn't have taken the skill with only the standard rules in effect, now that I've actually used them in the other Talanor campaign--and spontaneous alchemy, it still takes a bit of time for various things. On the other side of that coin, however, I can make the materials Kayin has available stretch for a good bit, thanks to how UC Crafting rules reduces the costs involved.
Of course, it doesn't help any that there are a number of highly useful things that the party could benefit from, but only one oracle to actually do the work. Seriously, I need minions that can do the tedious bits while I just make the requisite checks to actually turn their work into ready product.
Fire is a nice idea, and it would sure work. But remember that Valjoen might just let us burn the district to the ground if we get stupid with the incendiaries and how we use them. And since we kind of want the district intact for a number of reasons, that wouldn't make the party very popular in Talanor.
Kayin can help with the luring of stupid zombies, having a few spells--most with no limit on daily uses--that are ideal for making it appear as though there is something attackable knocking about. (And now I'm thinking Dying Light, where the zombies are attracted to noise and light, and making too much of the former draws even nastier zombies in eventually.)
Of course, fighting in this way also means no more leaps into open holes in the floor :p.
The zombies are based off Apocalypse Zombies with a few added bits. Apoc Zombies are CR2. I'd call these CR3 with good tactics and CR4-5 with no tactics.
I think all of your ideas have some merit and would certainly help.
Well, it's not how I prefer to play - moving from room to room, setting up and murdering enemies is not generally my idea of fun - but it should keep us alive, and given we also have zombie animals and monsters who can negate some of what I'm plotting will probably spice things up.
But yeah, I think we'll all need to start pouring ranks into craft skills - alchemy, arms and armour, etc - to get the gear we're gonna need and want.
The Tar Bombs will need to be used carefully, and only in the presence of Create Water, but as a last 'screw you' they'll gnaw at enemy health while we leg it to regroup.
At this point what I'm thinking is...extremely methodical. We set up outside the place we're clearing, open the doors, toot to see what runs out. Then we perception the room from outside. If it still looks clear, or a bunch of zombies ran out and fell over on marbles until we could Range them to death, we move into the room. If nothing is there we set up a second set of barricades, marble runs and Grease traps, then open one door and toot again. Repeat with each door - if something starts hammering on a closed door, we can leave it until it breaks in.
In the event of stairs or other entryways that don't have a pre-existing barrier of some kind, we can lay down extra supplies or stuff to slow enemy movement, and prioritise them over the doors themselves.
...and once each entrance has been cleared, we move that first set of defences from outside into the next room we wish to clear and repeat.
Theoretically, with those kinds of preparations, we should be able to kill most enemy before they can swarm us.
The reason the minotaur got us was that it caught us completely off guard, however - even if we were doing all this then, we'd have suffered the exact same loss once we lost a party member down a hole. We couldn't withdraw without killing one of our own, and when I went to protect them I set off the next encounter before we had a chance to do anything.
In this case, two failed perception checks nearly led to a TPK. I'm not sure what else we could have done. But I do have an idea for preventing it again. Potions of Hide from Undead would allow a member of the party separated from the others to safely withdraw back to safety without any risk.
If we can find someone who can make them, we might want to invest Essence in items that can detect undead. Hood of the Living or a Ghost Mirror should also help a little with making sure we don't run into more minotaur ambushes.
However, getting any gear is gonna take time to craft or locate people who can craft, so I dunno how practical any of this will be.
Crafting works instantly here. You only make items via the essence rules. So, a death primal essence would certainly make detect undead very easy!
Also, the undead are just a constant but minor part of the world. They will be prominent until the Point is cleared or you pursue other goals/quests. There are much bigger (and very much alive) threats to deal with than the zombies. I say this just so you don't focus all your resources to dealing with undead. They'll certainly always be around but will fade as the focus as time goes on. Just FYI.
Unfortunately, for now, they're what is killing us. Once we're not getting our ass kicked by them, either by being a high enough level or being sufficiently geared, we can worry about all the things that'll kill us later. Thankfully most of the stuff I've been looking at is reasonably 'cheap', which given gold isn't worth much right now may or may not be a good thing...
I assumed that the Essence to make items applied to magical ones - do you mean it also applies to mundane gear and alchemical items require Essence too, or am I misreading that? And how do Potions work with Essence? An essence for a 50gp potion is a bad investment, it would seem...
I assumed that the Essence to make items applied to magical ones - do you mean it also applies to mundane gear and alchemical items require Essence too, or am I misreading that? And how do Potions work with Essence? An essence for a 50gp potion is a bad investment, it would seem...
No, essences don't get used for mundane gear. And what Valjoen means by no crafting time is that, when you apply an essence to an object capable of taking one, you get the resulting magic item (or improvement to same) right then and there, no waiting.
Nor are essences required for potions, or scrolls either. Those are the only two magic items that can be made with little restriction in the campaign.
Cool, thank you. I haven't been paying much attention to crafting, beyond investing Essence in my current gear to make it better.
No, it's understandable that you'd pay attention to the bits that are most relevant to your character. I'm the same way in the other Talanor campaign, so I'm finding myself forced to learn campaign-specific rules and details in this one that I could (mostly) ignore for my other character.
Howdy there, fellow gamers. Since this isn't related to the campaign, I'm not posting as my character's alt but as myself.
I have a Steam coupon available for 60% off Dead by Daylight, valid until 8/6/19. It looks interesting, but it's not quite my style of game and I feel that the coupon would instead be better offered to someone that might enjoy the game more.
If you want the coupon before the expiration date, simply send me a PM with your Steam name, at which point I will befriend you and send the coupon on via a trade. Please note that I'm making this offer in a few places that I frequent, so it's very much first come, first served.
Work reared its ugly head yesterday. I'll make time tonight to get a post in. Sorry for the delay.
Where does the group want to head? Get Rest? Go to the Tower? Investigate anything? or "Just get us to tomorrow morning at the Brewery"?
Happy to rest up and gulp potions until I'm not an infected mess, then go find the final infected puppy in the brewery that will kill us all. Once that job is done we can hopefully spend a day or two preparing for the next job.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Quick checklist of things to make sure we handle before getting back to the fight.
1) Antiplague dose and Fort saves against the disease. If Valjoen will allow it, I'll further bolster everyone with resistance; in light of how utterly crap some of our rolls have been, I fully expect we're going to need every last bit of help to not die diseased :p.
1a) Rest up enough to at least get Kayin's fatigue timer done with. I have to admit, this is proving to be a nasty little drawback.
2) Identify and apportion the essences. Since there's three essences and just the three of us now, I'm guessing no one would object to a straight split of one each?
3) Decide who does what in the next fight. Kayin is probably switching to longspear, because archery is better left to someone like Titan who, you know, doesn't suck at it.
I've started a new job and it is really cutting into my time to post during the day. We have a big board meeting at the end of the month and a meeting with our federal regulators the following week. After that, I should get some time back. In the mean time, I'll do my best to keep moving things along.
@Titan - the would-be rogue is being held at the Tower. You certainly could approach it at anytime.
@Kayin - Antiplague and Resistance bonuses would certainly stack. How do you want figure a way to identify the essences? No one has the requisite knowledge skill within the party. You could always just divvy them up and imbue them to see what happens!
Hahahahaha, yeah, no I don't think that shoving unknown essences into ourselves or our stuff is a good plan. It leaves far too much room for creative GMs to poke about in :D. No, we'll hook up with Thomas or someone suitably skilled who maybe can take a shot. As I recall, Kayin's first effort to identify them was a failure, but only because he lacked the requisite skill; the rolls themselves (I believe) beat the DC needed. So I'm thinking that would at least be enough to conclusively tell Kayin what they aren't, and therefore what kind of expertise he might need.
Yeah, Muraisa would probably be fine shoving essence in her own brain, but her Axe is more important.
Yeah, Muraisa would probably be fine shoving essence in her own brain, but her Axe is more important.
I'm worried about those priorities, I'm really am.
People come, people go - but cool axes are eternal.
Still alive over here. I fear that our GM might have been eaten by life, however. IF this is the case, then it might be gnawing his bones for some time before it decides to spit him out and let him wobble off to recover :D.
So, the big push at work culminated yesterday. So, I should be getting back to a more consistent posting schedule.
Sounds good. Work can be a pain like that, but it puts food on the table...and electric in the device.
Did Thomas manage to consecrate and purify that powerfully and evilly enchanted ax they took from that gnoll? You said he would need to use a ritual from a book in the temple, but the campaign ended before that happened?
I don't recall Thomas finding the book with the ritual. Either way, it would need to be performed at either the alter there or in the church where he found Gunther. So, no, not consecrated.
He never turned to the temple (by that I mean the church where he found Gunther)? Ahaha. Talk about a lack of enterprise!
Oh, and what was in the brass box he found in the sacred grotto's sleeping area?
Do we get the chance to Antiplague it up as planned overnight?
With resistance and guidance for all!
Do we get the chance to Antiplague it up as planned overnight?
Yes, you may. Please give me a roll in the gameplay thread if you're diseased.
Since they rested for a second time, wouldn't it be the 19th since we started on the 17th?
Yep, I just haven't changed the date.
Sorry, everyone. Been under the weather all of last week and the weekend with the flu. I should be back at it tomorrow and posting.
Muraisa, wakey-wakey!
Appologies, the fine tradition of Paizo not showing new posts is alive and well.
Sorry guys. Things turned into a $hit storm at work. No excuse for not communicating with you guys.
I took a new job in late July with a huge promotion in responsibility. Two weeks ago the board fired one of the other execs and dropped his department in my lap. So, work has been crazy busy... as in 12-13 hours/day in the office and then bringing work back home every night. All the work I've been doing is culminating with a presentation to the board's audit committee on Nov 11th followed by the full board meeting on Nov 20th & 21st. Following that, my expectation is to hear from our primary regulator about that time regarding their examination which is due to start somewhere in late January.
So, I'm thinking that my posting is going to be slow for another few weeks until we get to Thanksgiving. After that, I should get myself to back to a 1/day posting... most days. Also, it is possible that I'm posts will start coming in the evening rather than mid-day. I'm CDT time, btw.
I do have a vacation to Jamaica planned with the wife in mid-January. She's taken up the mantle at home without a complaint and deserves a little Valjoen attention!
I will get a post up this weekend.
Thanks again for all the patience.
No worries. This is why I don't let work promote me, despite there best efforts.
So my laptop got in the hard drive recently, and while I'm not totally shutdown (clearly), my usual posting is going to take a hit; this dinky phone screen--better than nothing by far--isn't really suited to proper posts and the sort of multitab references I usually make use of.
Good morning, Everyone.
Board meeting is today and tomorrow. Three months of work culminating with presentations today. I should get posts restarted in the next few days and try to get us back in a good rhythm.
Val
Good luck.
How about a quick check-in by everyone to make sure we are all still here.
I'm still here.
Nope, I'm not here at all, this is just a prerecorded message :p.
Hey Everyone.
Very sorry for the month's worth of silence. While work continues to be very busy (10-12 hour days), we've had some tragedy with extended family that has taken all of my attention. I've kept thinking every weekend, that this will be the week that I get some energy and enthusiasm to get back to the Paizo message boards and play some Pathfinder.
Honestly, I haven't felt like playing or writing much.
I have a vacation coming up over January 22-28. I'm hoping this will recharge the batteries.
I'll post when I'm back home and settled back into work and we'll see about restarting the campaign. Thank you for your patience.
Val
Live happens, and I'm sorry to hear your family is having to deal with tragic circumstances. Take your time.