I can understand the confusion. Or I'm confused by the misunderstanding. Either way, I'm happy to post officially in the Gameplay thread.
Can we get a list here of boni from all the mystic magicks flying around, and someone to double check my workings outs....
Given I'm quaffing a bull's strength and a enlarge person I should receive:
+4 Str = +2 to attacks and damage [bulls strength]
and
[+2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size] = no added bonus to attack, +1 to damage, -2 to AC (-1 due to size and -1 due to Dex loss due to size) and longspear now does 2d6 damage [enlarge person]
for a sub-total of +2 to attack, +3 damage, -2 AC and doing 2d6 damage.
All the official "boni" (aka, bonuses) is exactly why I'm waiting to see officially what's cast, which potions are drunk, and what actions are readied. That, as well as the fact that I don't want to usurp a player's action by dictating exactly how they act and then have them object if I didn't interpret how their character would have done things. In essence, I need you guys to be proactive as well in the actual game thread, not just OOC discussion. I get the need for not letting the pace of a PbP game slow down, but you guys also have a lot of complicated builds in your characters, and I want to give you a chance to properly use them, and also give myself time to understand how you're using them in relation to the current challenge. And, for some of you (particularly the spellcasters), it's important that I have clarity around which resources you're using up in each encounter as we go.
So, no worries, I get the concern. We all need to be a bit more proactive when it comes down to it. Remember, however, I did ask for 1 post per day from everyone when I started the game (barring undue circumstances, of course). I especially need that when we're in a combat situation. So, at this point, I've got readied actions and preparations for Ailis, Lesska, and Lydia. I've got a pretty good sense of what Bastian intends to do, so I can auto-play his action, if necessary. But, I'd still like an idea of what preparations Daehalya intends (i.e., she was last debating on whether to draw the shadow's attention for everyone via protective spells, or just relying on all of your AoO's to bring it down before it can reach her), as well as Suetonius (i.e., if he's going to cast bless per Bastian's suggestion or ready a channel energy or something else). So, give me some clarity on that and I'll move us forward.
Maintaining pace in a PbP is always a balance and a shared responsibility. And I perfectly understand Neil wanting us to post our actions. As any project manager knows, planning and execution are unfortunately not always the same.
To use a MMORPG analogy, our avatars have been standing idle for a few mins while we discuss strategy on Discord. We still have to push the right buttons in the right order (don't anyone go Leeeeroy Jenkins on us now!).
For instance, Ailis, you may want to adjust your readied action slightly. If you cast after the sphere drops, you leave yourself open to an AoO. Better to avoid that risk and cast before the spell is dismissed and ready an attack instead.
Of course, technically, we can't ready until we're in initiative.
I'm not just standing there right next to him! That seems super awkward!
Adjusted my preparation to actually have specified ready action. Which is possibly why Neil was waiting. He knows I'm playing. ;)
Do we get to take our readied actions in addition to a regular turn?
Do we get to take our readied actions in addition to a regular turn?
Yes...as long as your initiative count is higher than the shadow's...i.e., all but Lydia, I believe.
Doing the math on Bastians fairly impressive round of attacks made me realize that Ailis' Precise strike doesn't provide any benefit when we're fighting incorporals, since they are immune to precision damage (including regular sneak attacks). Crit's too, so no AoO's off Outflank.
If one of our spellcasters could prepare ghostbane dirge in one form or another, it would be swell.
Did I mention how much Bastian dislikes incorporeals?
I apparently was so concerned with the Darklands, I didn't think about Nidal/shadows at all, which is even more ironic considering Daehalya's back story.
Umm, so do I make a readied attack, and then my full attack suite (two attacks) plus...one extra attack for haste and are all those attacks gaining the +1 bonus on attack rolls from haste?
And ignore the AoO stuff as Outflank doesn't apply to incorporeal?
And roll a miss chance for all four of those attacks?
Umm, so do I make a readied attack, and then my full attack suite (two attacks) plus...one extra attack for haste and are all those attacks gaining the +1 bonus on attack rolls from haste?
And ignore the AoO stuff as Outflank doesn't apply to incorporeal?
And roll a miss chance for all four of those attacks?
Check my last post on the combat modifiers in play. It's a 20% miss chance due to lighting conditions within the tomb unless you've got something to counteract it. Even the light sources you've brought with you don't fully illuminate anything beyond "dim" lighting.
Ailis held off on casting haste as her readied action. And, I think it's fair to resolve the readied actions in the same order as the initiative that was established for combat. So, if Ailis acts before you, you get the bonuses from haste as part of your readied action. And, regardless, you'll get it on your normal turn.
And, yes, you get a readied attack, then your full attack...because Haramil didn't ready an action and he goes next to last in the initiative order (after Lydia). So, you act before him in both instances.
As for the Outflank, you still get the bonus on your attack roll, but incorporeal creatures are immune to critical hits, so even though Bastian got one, it won't count for activating any AoO for you.
As a side note, this is an incredible amount of stuff to track. Even at a tabletop game, it would slow things down considerably...but, via Play-by-Post, it's a bit harder to envision and adjudicate with a "theater of the mind" approach. Nevertheless, I'm doing the best I can to work with it.
Lydia, don't forget you still have darkvision from my casting at the mouth of the cave. :)
One other announcement from me. I've got a business trip coming up on Sunday and I'll be at a hotel thru Wednesday. I expect to take advantage of their WiFi, so I think I'll be fine. This is just a heads-up in case my internet access gets compromised somehow.
Ah well, I'll switch out Precise Strike for another feat next round.
No worries at all Neil, this is an incredible amount of stuff compared to what I'm normally used to, so I'm just happy you are being patient with me!
Ok, so just the +4 from Outflank and not the AoO etc...
One question - I saw Bastian and Suetonius posting their readied attacks and their full attacks, but you only rolled a miss chance once only for each of them. Why was that?
Do you want me to roll a miss chance for all my attacks given I have normal human vision?
I can post my action in an hour or so...
@Lesska: I am guessing that it is because he is resolving all of the 'Surprise Round' attacks first, but not all of them had been posted.
After they have been resolved, he will move on to the others.
@GM: Re: Miss Chances, though, does having Low Light Vision help mitigate that problem?
One question - I saw Bastian and Suetonius posting their readied attacks and their full attacks, but you only rolled a miss chance once only for each of them. Why was that?
I was checking the readied attacks to see if they all landed so I could determine if the shadow would be taken down before going into regular initiative order...i.e., if so, it might have precluded the need for Ailis to cast bladed dash and she could keep the spell. Same for any other resource usage that might have occurred from the other spellcasters or channel energy from Suetonius.
Do you want me to roll a miss chance for all my attacks given I have normal human vision?
Yes. If you guys want to go ahead and include miss chances in your attack rolls, that would be fine.
@GM: Re: Miss Chances, though, does having Low Light Vision help mitigate that problem?
Yes. Looking back on it, I didn't need to roll miss chances for either of you, because you've got low-light and Bastian's darkvision is still operating. So, I believe Lesska is the only one affected by the lighting conditions at the moment.
Ok, sorry, I'm falling asleep here - it's Sat. Nite here in Oz and the family night-time shenanigans stuff has wiped me out...So far I have:
+2 to attack, +3 damage, -2 AC and doing 2d6 damage from potions
+4 attack from outflank.
Am I just rolling for the readied action? So sorry for the confusion - I'm still somewhat at a loss as to whether the haste has happened or not, even after Neil's explanation. Not sure why it's all clear for you guys. ;) If I go after Ailis it's on? Or only if I go after Ailis in the post-readied action round?
Also, is my readied attack a full attack? If not, why not?
And lastly, who in their right mind would ever use Vital Strike instead of a full attack suite? To make one attack at the highest BAB if you don't think the iteratives will hit and thus do a dice more damage? It seems lacklustre.
Am I just rolling for the readied action? So sorry for the confusion - I'm still somewhat at a loss as to whether the haste has happened or not, even after Neil's explanation. Not sure why it's all clear for you guys. ;) If I go after Ailis it's on? Or only if I go after Ailis in the post-readied action round?
You can roll the readied and regular action since Lesska is ahead of Haramil in the initiative order. And, if you go after Ailis, her readied action of casting haste will be in effect for you.
Also, is my readied attack a full attack? If not, why not?
I don't believe so. Readied actions are a single standard action. But, with haste in effect, I believe that grants you an extra one.
Haste only grants an extra attack when you take a full-attack action. You are right that readied actions should only be one attack in most cases (unless you somehow have a way to take more than one attack as a standard action).
GM: "Whatever you do, don't disturb anything inside the tomb"
Also GM: "You should probably pick up that lance and open that sarcophagus"
Am I the only one getting mixed signals here. :-)
Sorry, was away with poor net service, have posted now.
In response to Ailis and Dae’s points, perhaps we can establish the following assumptions to save time, and have Neil roll the appropriate dice as part of the description?
Unless we are in clear danger or rushing, every time we enter a room:
- Lydia detects chaos/evil
- Daehalya detects magic
- Ailis checks for traps
- all appropriate knowledge checks are rolled passivly.
Whenever we encounter a new creature:
- all characters with the appropriate knowledge rolls passivly and get the relevant info in a spoiler.
Thoughts?
I approve!
Sounds good to me.
Also, just as a heads up, Lesska has burned through her three uses/day of Challenge which is the main engine of her chassis. Without it she hits a lot less hard and can't do as many fun things. Sleep is for the wicked!!!
I'm fine with that if Neil doesn't mind doing the work. I personally find putting the creature info behind a spoiler is a little easier as a GM and if he'd rather do that, I'm certainly fine with it (I've asked my players in my PBPs to give me their default "questions" that they want to know so they get the basic info behind a spoiler and based on their rolls I give them the next level of info).
I'll see what I can do to accommodate that going forward. It just feels a bit meta-gamey, though, to spam every at-will ability and skill in every room every time. But I get it. In a lot of games, it's a standard way of playing things at the table, and it can certainly speed things in PbP games. Storywise, it just leaves a bit to be desired for the roleplay element. As counterpoint (but not a mandate), I'd encourage you guys to not feel like you have to do all of that in every room. I'm not an adversarial GM looking for "gotcha" moments in every instance where I can disadvantage you because you forgot to check for something. Ideally, I want to see you guys succeed so the story can continue, and hopefully be enriched. That's my overall goal.
I certainly see your point about the meta-gamey aspect. And it does seem over the top to do it for ever single room and corridor. Perhaps we can reach the compromise that a player should call for “careful entry” for it to be used, but once that is called, all relevant checks are rolled at once instead of individually. Waiting half a day for a player to cast detect magic then another half for the GM to declare the result is what slows the pace.
Also good points.
I think unfortunately now that we've seen one statue react and try to kill us (even if they did kill some Reborn for us beforehand), I'm expecting more to do so. The foreshadowing -- no pun intended (though I really wanted to say "floorshadowing") -- of the burned bodies makes it feel like, OK, you've had your warning so be careful in here.
I want it to be fun for everyone, including you as the GM, Neil.
I blame magic users. And thieves. Conan would have no truck with such tedious notions of....checking... for.... things nor the pestilential sorceries of foul spellcasters! Avaunt!!!
GM answer:
Pardon me for revealing ooc knowledge about the monster, but normally dealing a certain amount of damage to a deathweb supresses the infestation for a round. Is that not the case here?
That's only for area effect attacks...i.e., something like a splash weapon, burning hands, fireball, etc. Individual melee attacks don't inflict area effect damage. So, there's no way to suppress the infestation aura with flails, axes, swords, lances, etc.
Sorry guys, I misunderstood the situation. I should have paid more attention to the previous posts. I didn't realize we were trying to fall back, and I thought the other spiders were more damaged than they actually were. :(
I dont think we are retreating, its just three of us got nauseated and its dumb to be in melee combat while you are nauseated.
Hey, no worries, guys. From my understanding (and everyone can certainly clarify if I've misinterpreted anything), about half the party is retreating and the other half are still in the room and/or engaged with the spiders.
- Aiyana definitely retreated to the safety of the brightly-lit room and called for others to join her.
- Daehalya did the same, also encouraging others to join them.
- Zyler disappeared and hasn't reemerged from invisibility to contribute yet.
- Bastian took a 5-foot step away from the fight towards the entrance, and given that he was fighting the spider closest to the door, he's basically right at the entryway.
- Ailis tumbled away from the second spider, helped Bastian take down the first one, and so she too finds herself close by him, near the door.
- Lesska charged into the room and engaged the spider that was furtherest away from everyone. She then got injured and nauseated and used a single move action to try and rejoin everyone, but she's still making her way back.
- Lydia leapt forward and is now battling both spiders, so she too is still inside the chamber, but closer to the door the spiders than Lesska, and she's actually knowingly or unknowingly aiding the Kellid's retreat.
- And, lastly, Suetonius is just inside the room, but closer to the door than Lydia and Lesska, having used his channel energy to damage all the spiders.
Hope that helps clarify the positioning. If we were on a battle map, it would be easier, but I very much want to run this more as "theater of the mind" so don't worry overly much about the exact distances. I won't let it create any unfair situations for you. If you ever need clarification from any of my descriptions, though, feel free to ask here and I'll chime in...
Just realised I forgot to add my Favored Class Bonus to hit points. Adjusted now.
Also, have neglected to appropriately or even ever utilise Power Attack. When restored, will do so. ;)
What Aiyana just said makes me curious about the design considerations behind this module. Almost all of the monsters we have faced so far deal some form of ability damage. This presents an interesting dilemma when coupled with the sense of urgency from preventing the Reborn from capturing the Cradle.
Most 8th level parties can be expected to have plenty of hp healing available, through wands and channels, but only have a couple of restoration spells and potions. This creates the temptation to stop and rest we’re in now, but we’re also motivated to push on.
Neil, was this a concious design decision or a byproduct of using shadowthemed monsters?
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Neil, was this a concious design decision or a byproduct of using shadowthemed monsters?
Good question. Ask me again after you guys have completed Part One of the adventure (aka, "Remnants of the Dark").
I'm just glad I brought a couple of restoration potions. I was kind of stumped for what to buy after blowing so much of my budget on a highly story-focused but likely completely useless zoic fetish, and knowing little of "high level" play figured such things might come in handy...
Obvs I as a player am keen for the party to rest but it seems more realistic that we would push onward to the chase...
Looks like I need to chug both a neutralise poison and a lesser restoration, with a current Strength of 9...
. Yay. Now Str 12. I have one lesser restoration potion left. What are other folks Strengths down to - happy to give potion away, and just as happy to drink it.
It looks like Ailis took 8 Str damage, if I read right, which would leave her at 6 (again, assuming I'm reading correctly). I'd suggest she drinks our two remaining potions of lesser restoration.
Ailis is not primarily a fighter, even though her combat style is melee combat. I think Lesska and Lydia should drink the remaining two potions.
It is a common misconception that Strength damage reduces your score. It does not. It merely bestows a penalty.
In this case, the penalty is only -4 to damage and to Str-based skills for Ailis, which is hardly consequential.
True. Old mindsets are hard to break (re: ability damage reducing the score). :)
I'm fine if Lesska and Lydia drink the potions.
Looks like I need to chug both a neutralise poison and a lesser restoration, with a current Strength of 9...
[dice=Potion of Lesser Restoration]1d4. Yay. Now Str 12. I have one lesser restoration potion left. What are other folks Strengths down to - happy to give potion away, and just as happy to drink it.
Does Lesska drink her own neutralize potion or the one offered by Bastian?
Does Lesska drink her own neutralize potion or the one offered by Bastian?Looks like I need to chug both a neutralise poison and a lesser restoration, with a current Strength of 9...
[dice=Potion of Lesser Restoration]1d4. Yay. Now Str 12. I have one lesser restoration potion left. What are other folks Strengths down to - happy to give potion away, and just as happy to drink it.
She opted for her own.
It is a common misconception that Strength damage reduces your score. It does not. It merely bestows a penalty.
In this case, the penalty is only -4 to damage and to Str-based skills for Ailis, which is hardly consequential.
Ehrm. To quote a young person:
Wut?
Can someone explain to me what the effect is then?
Lesska took 7 Str damage. But that has not reduced her Strength from 16 to 9, but has rather imposed a penalty?
And what did my lesser restoration potion roll of 3 do to that penalty?
Regards,
So Confused.
The effect is -1 to Strength-based rolls for every 2 points of ability damage.
7 Strength damage gives her -3 to hit, damage, Climb, and Swim.
7 Intelligence damage would give -3 to wizard DCs, Knowledge checks, etc.
The lesser restoration reduced the damage from 7 to 4, which makes the penalty -2 instead.
The difference is for a couple of examples. Characters suffering from Strength damage can still use Power Attack, for instance. Ability damage does not effect carrying capacity or a caster's ability to use their spells.
Yup. The key difference is between ability damage (pretty bad) and ability drain (really, REALLY bad).
More info here. Scroll down to the bottom.
Nice explanations, thanks folks!