yah, that one doest seem worth it to me. Rogue Talents are cool, but there aren't so many awesome options that i'm struggling to figure out what I want... at least not to the extent that I'd give up extra skills or hp to do so.
So here's a devil's bargain... the Human Favored Class alternative for the Rogue (i.e. Raj):
"The human gains +1/6 of a new rogue talent."
So... 6 Skill levels / HPs for a Rogue talent... eeesh.
Personally, I always go for the extra rogue talent. It is basically an extra feat... and you could use one of your feats to get Toughness. In the long run, you would have more hit points than if you went with the hit point favored class bonus. Of course, it is a bit more complex if you want skill points instead.
I think I've taken the HP on like one character ever, lol. And that on had a 9 con (rolled stats, couldn't place 'em). Skill points are too valuable to me.
Yah, I generally only take HP in one of two situations: I'm playing a very weak character (who is literally in danger of getting killed every time he's attacked) or if I'm intentionally trying to make a ridiculously tough character -- then I stack toughness with extra HP with high con with... well, you get the point.
AS Rose said... skills are just so useful!
Yea, agreed, skills are amazing. Though, getting the +1 skill favored class bonus basically just lets you max one more skill. In a high level pathfinder game though, would you rather have one more skill or 3 more rogue talents? It is a bad favored class bonus at low levels, but keeps getting better at high levels.
Admittedly though, Carrion Crown only goes to like level 15. So, might not be worth it here.
If you do it right with the 1/6th rogue talent, you can pick up a rogue talent at I think 10th level. Then, you can have a rogue talent, use your rogue talent for Combat Trick and take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and then next level use your feat to take Extra Rogue Talent to get whatever else you wanted at 10th level.
But the payoff takes such a long time that I wouldn't ever recommend it really. :x
It could be an interesting twist if the only moments of absolute inner quiet Walt knows are in hairy combats because those are the only times when his voices go completely silent. He could come to welcome combat as 'peaceful' moments.
I like that.
Yeah, and 6 to 1 just seems a steep price to pay. Really, with my current build, I'm not crying over a couple of feats I'm dying to have and I've tweaked it to get the really cool stuff as early as I can (hitting all the pre-reqs). Since I plan to get my level(s) in Wizard, I'll be wanting skill points to throw into a range of Knowledge skills, Spellcraft, and the like.
Having said that, Walter, I like the way you think. :) I'm debating throwing another 2 levels of Wizard into my Advancement plan... and I may ask you to look my feats over after I've shoehorned more Wizard in there and help me re-arrange my feats in a kickass fashion! :D
Heh, if you take an extra two levels in wizard, that opens up Arcane Trickster for you...
The thing is, I've tried making an arcane trickster before, and they're so painfully ineffective at low levels I can't really recommend them, lol.
Yeah, and 6 to 1 just seems a steep price to pay. Really, with my current build, I'm not crying over a couple of feats I'm dying to have and I've tweaked it to get the really cool stuff as early as I can (hitting all the pre-reqs). Since I plan to get my level(s) in Wizard, I'll be wanting skill points to throw into a range of Knowledge skills, Spellcraft, and the like.
Having said that, Walter, I like the way you think. :) I'm debating throwing another 2 levels of Wizard into my Advancement plan... and I may ask you to look my feats over after I've shoehorned more Wizard in there and help me re-arrange my feats in a kickass fashion! :D
If you're going to take 2, then you have to take 3 for 2nd level spells.
No, I meant 2 extra Wiz levels... in addition to the one level I already have 'scheduled'. I wouldn't stop before getting 2nd level spells. :) So, my initial debate is Wiz 1 or go for Wiz 3.
Alright, just found the Divine Favor spell. I'm leaning toward picking that. This will become an exercise in "how many bonuses can you stack?".
Bless from Walter: +1 moral to attack
Inspire from Lem: +1 competence to attack and damage
Point Blank Shot: +1 untyped to attack and damage
Judgement: +1 sacred to attack or damage
Divine Favor: +1 luck to attack and damage
Muahaha! I'll probably switch it out with something that will benefit more members of the party later on when I have a caster level that makes those spells viable.
Though, divine favor doesn't apply to spell damage... and it seems like I'm going to be using disrupt undead A LOT here.
And Lem's Inspire bonus will increase with levels unless I'm mistaken. :)
Wow, a busy night (day)! Sorry for no posts last night, had some reluctant sleepers in the house. : )
In case anyone remains uncertain, I am not the hoarding spells kind of GM. I do want my players to be reasonable about how they find new spells (e.g. Alendru and Kendra are your only known sources at the moment, so you can expect to find enchantment and divination spells of the appropriate level relatively easily, but evocation spells might be harder to come across).
On the topic of disrupt undead, you are probably right about its utility for this chapter of the AP. Having so many practitioners in the party makes it a viable attack strategy against individual opponents for a little while yet.
Now, let's see if I can get another post done before breakfast time. ; )
Well I DID say "hurt me plenty", didn't I?
OUCH!
Hmm...what might have happened if I had rolled a crit...
Yikes. How's your Fort save? ; )
This might be a little too metagamey, but maybe I should just take the AoOs. They haven't hit me yet, and I've only got a 50/50 chance of casting defensively.
Of course that will be the time I get critted.
On the topic of disrupt undead, you are probably right about its utility for this chapter of the AP. Having so many practitioners in the party makes it a viable attack strategy against individual opponents for a little while yet.
Hah, the issue I've run into is that I've realized disrupt undead is both more effective and more accurate than my bow against the vast majority of the stuff we've been running into. I might be stuck with that as my main attack until I get Rapid Shot at level 3.
I feel kind bad that all those magical arrows I got are kind of just sitting in my quiver, lol.
Those arrows are like your jacket when you were a kid (and as an adult). It's better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.
Hmm...what might have happened if I had rolled a crit...
Yikes. How's your Fort save? ; )
Actually... a Halberd is a x3 crit weapon. It would have been even worse D:
Those arrows are like your jacket when you were a kid (and as an adult). It's better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.
Lol! Well said.
I'm just waiting for a corporeal undead (boss) without any sort of DR. He will get a bane arrow to the face.
Actually... a Halberd is a x3 crit weapon. It would have been even worse D:Hmm...what might have happened if I had rolled a crit...
Yikes. How's your Fort save? ; )
Bah! It's just a scratch!
Home game halberd storytime. Evil characters, I'm the DM. The group had learned of a guy's wife having an affair, and decided to kill the wife, fix the crime scene to make it look like he did it, then kill the husband and frame it on the guy she was cheating with (convoluted, I know).
Either way one of the character's kil the guys wife, put her body in the bed and wait. One character, a halfling rogue level 4, decides to hide in the bed next to her. At this point he's rolled max Hp every level and has a decent con.
Guy comes home. I already know his routine. He goes into a little storage room where his armor rack is, strips down there and then goes to bed. But he keeps his halberd with him at all times (I even went so far as to describe the rack for it in the bedroom).
So in the bedroom we have two monks (four winds and zen archer), and the rogue. Guy pulls the sheet off to go to bed, rogue comes out for sneak attack and goes "**** is sleepign with your wife!".
At this point everyone's laughing. We roll inish, and the guy gets lucky and goes first (fyi, I usually roll out in the open). So using his stat block, he power attacks the halfling using his halberd (6th lvl fighter btw). The dice come up in this order 20,19,19. So confirmed crit followed by another hit. All in all it was like 79 points of damage. The poor little guy didn't stand a chance.
And that's one of my stories of why x3 (and x4) weapons scare me.
ouch - I awake to 46 discussion posts and a horror story.
Dang, I had been expecting that fight to last a while so I went ahead and used a judgement to get some healing... and I only ended up getting 2 hp out of it ;)
Can we push on? Lem's right - we probably got another fight left in us... but I am scared of a bridge too far and from a completely IC view? We've been here like 15 minutes and had
1/ A midget zombie and skeletons attack - some sort of bone dragon thing that exploded from the water... and then just plain exploded as we all hit it.
2/ A swarm of what appeared to vindictive hyper intelligent rats jump us
3/ A bunch of ghost welded weapons have carved us up some.
Me? I think we need to get healed up, get more holy water, sell what we got and load up for bear because this prison is bad ass.
I would prefer to push on a bit, because I'm worried that there are going to be consequences if we take too long to clear this place out. Aka, Vesmera dies.
The link I found for Cyn's leveling stuff. If this is still correct of course.
I really dont want to rip this dungeon up in just a few grind sessions though... we've not touched the village much in terms of interaction and RP and we've not let the bloody letters play out either - we're 1 letter into the name. Assuming a letter a day? We can afford to let it wait a day or two before needing to charge back in. There is so much RP that can play out (I am a bit of a RP guy despite liking melee monster PC's) in the village.
That said, it seems there are 2 votes for and 1 against so far so lets do another room or two then. I will still get my village RP time in the long run and I don't believe we'll cleanse this place in just one outing :).
As far as pushing on, Rose would like to. She's currently down 2 of 4 Arcane Pool, and 1 of her 2 first level spells (the other being True Strike). Of course she didn't get hit that fight either (yay for shield!)
The link I found for Cyn's leveling stuff. If this is still correct of course.
Coolio
Dragomir HPs roll
Con and Fav. Class.
Normally like skills for Fav. Class but I am the sole full BAB guy so I need to make myself a bit of an anvil for you to hammer the baddies against. Maybe I should think about a shield too...
Oh thank you Dice Roller!!! All my ill feelings are forgotten!
Though, divine favor doesn't apply to spell damage... and it seems like I'm going to be using disrupt undead A LOT here.
I'd forgotten about that... we could go 'Ghostbusters' here...
Just don't cross the streams.
Seriously, 2 Magus, 1 Cleric, 1 Inquisitor and an Oracle.
It could be a case of 'Don't fire until you can see where the whites of their eyes used to be' and just rain down 5D6 damage on something.
I'd forgotten about that... we could go 'Ghostbusters' here...
Just don't cross the streams.
Seriously, 2 Magus, 1 Cleric, 1 Inquisitor and an Oracle.
It could be a case of 'Don't fire until you can see where the whites of their eyes used to be' and just rain down 5D6 damage on something.
Hah, unfortunately disrupt undead isn't on the Cleric/oracle spell list for some reason. Still, 3 casters is pretty good.
Oh, here's my HP roll.
level 2 hit points: yay! I'll try and get my character sheet together tomorrow.
One rank each into Climb, Swim, Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device and Knowledge (Planes)
Hit points Rolled 6 + 1con +12 = 19 total
+1 Fort & Will
Gained class feature: Spellstrike
Gonna think about the 2 spells in the book tonight.
HP:
I'll do the full update in another post.
I'm in favor of pushing on - at least for awhile yet. I'm guessing the executioners block may be one of those recurring haunts... which means that if we don't open the door now, we may have to fight these garden implements all over again if we come back tomorrow.
HP: +7 (17 Total)
Favored Class - +1 Skill Point
Reflex Save +1
BAB/CMB/CMD +1
Hidden Blade ability +1
Gained: Evasion
Gained: Rogue Talent - Minor Magic - Light spell
11 Skill Points
Acrobatics +1
Bluff +1
Climb +1
Disable Device +1
Intimidate +1
Know (Dungeon) +1
Perception +1
Perform (Act) +1
Sense Motive +1
Sleight of Hand +1
Stealth +1
EDIT: Character sheet updated
why light? There are better cantrips out there for rogues... its not a horrible one but it doesn't have the benefit of mage hand or prestidigitation for instance.
Question: Do I continue to be the Great Sword of destruction or build to be the rock you dash your enemies against? Do I go the turtle route? I must admit its be huge fun to be laying on the smackdown buuuuuuuuut in a few levels my AC isn't gonna cut the mustard any more.
Oh - question for the DM
Extra Traits feat - there is no rule on the when of it but is it available in your game post level 1 and if so what traits are restricted and is favour as part of the choice required or is carte blanche?
To my mind, darkness is one of the biggest weaknesses of human characters. As a scout and skulker, a source of light that isn't flammable, can be hidden in a pocket, can be cast on any object, and can be conjured in any condition - underwater, etc - is a huge plus. Prestidigitation isn't bad and Raj can already cast that one, just not reliably. As for all the other cantrips - my next level will be Wizard 1 so I'll get them all then.
Ahhh - nice. A short dip there or planning on a new career path?
Level 3 may prove to be the time of multiclassing for a few of us.
I'm debating how far to take it. I'll either go with just 1 level in Wizard or 3 levels total staggered somewhat broadly. Raj's chief focus will be on 2-weapon fighting and roguery. Wizardry is really just a way to shore up some of his weaknesses and enhance his thief abilities... so spells like: Shield, Vanish, Obscuring Mist, Detect Secret Doors, True Strike, Memory Lapse, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, etc.
3! The die tolls 3.
Here goes, hp roll
Hey folks. Want to post...but so sleepy. Back in the morning, methinks.
Get some Zzzz's its 10.30.
My skills are kind of all over the place now. Put a point into bluff, climb, diplomacy, intimidate, know(religion), perception, sense motive, stealth, and survival.
Thats good to be diverse... its needed to help each other out... I took Diplomacy for that. Perception because at the end of the day it keeps coming and the DC for avoiding surprise is 15.
Full leveling to follow in a little bit. Let's see what the die roller has in store for me this morning...
HP:
I'm all for pressing on as well. Full leveling info:
HP +8 (18 total, 17/18 current)
Favored Class: +1 Skill Point
Fort Save +1
Reflex Save +1
BAB/CMB/CMD +1
Gained: Discovery (Infusion - extracts can be consumed by others)
Gained: Poison Resistance +2
Gained: Additional Bomb/day (3/5 current)
Gained: Handle Animal as a class skill
Gained: Additional Formulae (Summon Nature's Ally I - from Preservationist alternate class feature, Comprehend Languages - from standard leveling. If someone else has this I might reconsider).
9 Skill Points
Craft (Alchemy) +1
Disable Device +1
Handle Animal +1
Heal +1
Know (Arcana) +1
Know (Nature) +1
Know (Dungeoneering) +1
Perception +1
Use Magic Device +1
Heal skill could be useful to treat walter who is 4 hps down.
Too late - extract time... Some of those extracts ROCK.
Shield Extract? Yummy!!