Coming soon.
Okay, here's some information so that you guys can get started thinking up characters.
The dwarven people have never recovered from that terrible loss. The rest of their city-states fell into squabbling over who the true heir was, with more than a dozen dwarves coming forward, proclaiming themselves the rightful king. With the kingdom fractured, the dwarves became easy prey for enemies, and more than half the city-states were destroyed within the next hundred years. Disgracefully, more than a couple were destroyed by other dwarves in a brutal civil war.
Those that remained have mostly been annexed by the kingdoms of men. What began as mutual defense treaties spread into trade, as dwarven craftsmanship is highly desirable, and eventually into allies, even brothers. These days, the dwarven tongue is rarely spoken, and dwarves are mostly seen as another kind of man. Their culture is slowly dying.
- Starting level: 1st
- Gold: Average for class.
- 20 Point Buy. Nothing above an 18 after Racial Modifiers. You can have negatives for days, but note that there will be consequences for doing so.
- One Campaign Trait, one other trait. No drawbacks.
- HP: Max for first level, and ½+1 for subsequent levels.
- Alignment: Any. Be careful of CN or anything Evil. Your actions will have consequences.
- House Rules
- All light weapons use Dex to hit. The Weapon Finesse feat instead lets you use Dex to hit with any single non-light finesseable weapin (such as a rapier) and also use Dex on damage with it.
- Monks can use enchanted handwraps to allow them to get bonuses to attacks and damage without having to use an actual weapon. Note that you only get the bonus when actually attacking with your hands, as opposed to doing something like kicking / elbowing while you’re carrying something or have your hands tied.
- Monk’s gain the “Zen Warrior” ability at first level, allowing them to use their Wisdom modifier instead of their Strength modifier on Melee attacks with unarmed strikes or monk weapons. Strength is still used for damage.
- Every class has Perception as a Class Skill. It's by far the most used skill in the game, I have no idea why some classes don't have it.
- Fractional BAB and Saves are used for Multiclassing.
- Allowed Races
- Core Races (Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Half-Elves, Halflings, Half-Orcs, Humans), as well as Drow, Oread, Duergar, and Svirfneblin.
Note: Also see below for Homebrew Changes to the Races.
- Allowed Classes
- Core (Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard),
- Base (Alchemist, Cavalier, Inquisitor, Magus, Oracle, Summoner, Witch)
- Advanced Playtest (Arcanist, Bloodrager, Brawler, Hunter, Investigator, Shaman, Skald, Slayer, Swashbuckler, Warpriest)
- Duergar
- -2 Cha instead of -4
- +2 Racial bonus to Survival checks.
- Option of having +2 Int instead of +2 Wis.
- Oread
- Gain the "Granite Skin" alternative Racial Trait for free (+1 Natural Armor)
- Gain the “Mountain Born” alternative Racial Trait for free. (+2 Acrobatics on ledges, +2 saves for altitude fatigue / sickness)
- Svirfneblin
- -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis. Fast and observant, but relatively weak.
- Size: Small
- Speed: 20
- Senses: Darkvision 60 ft.
- Languages: Gnome and Undercommon. Those with high intelligence can choose from the following: Aklo, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Orc, and Terran.
- Defensive Training: Gain the Dodge feat for free.
- Skilled: Svirfneblin gain a +2 racial bonus on Stealth checks and a +2 racial bonus on a Craft or Profession skill of their choice.
- Stonecutting: Svirfneblin gain a +2 bonus on Perception checks to notice unusual stonework, such as traps and hidden doors located in stone walls or floors. They recieve a check to notice such features whenever they pass within 10 feet of them, whether or not they are actively looking.
- Svirfneblin Magic - Svirfneblin add +1 to the DC of any Illusion spells they cast. Those with at least an 11 Charisma also gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day - hairline fractures, know direction, soften earth and stone; The caster level for these effects is equal to the Svirfneblin level. The DC is 10 + the Spell’s Level + the Svirfneblin’s Charisma modifier.
For the sake of this campaign - being a Dwarf means you come from a Human-controlled surface city. Being a duergar means that you are a dwarf who is a member of one of the last remaining city-states in the underworld. This same distinction applies to the Gnomes and svirfneblin as well, though those civilizations are thriving much better than the dwarves, and have a good relationship between them. It is worth noting that despite being ‘the same’, dwarves and duergar do not get along.
- Escaped Slave (Duergar or Svirfneblin)
At one point in your life, Drow soldiers ambushed your caravan or outpost, and your life changed instantly. Never one to waste manpower, they took you in. It’s difficult totell how many years you were a slave to them, but the years were hard. While you’ve since escaped, you may never forget those years spent in the deep dark, and the Drow treatment of you has made you more resistant to hardship.Choose one category of saving throw (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will) - you gain a +1 bonus on all saving throws of that type.
- Lore Seeker - There is no telling what mystical secrets Dammerhall may contain. As someone who has studied magic intensively, you long to increase your knowledge by discovering what may lie long forgotten in the ancient Dwarven city.
You gain a +1 bonus on Knowledge Arcana and it becomes a class skill. If you cast Arcane Spells, choose three on your spell list. You get a +1 CL and +1 to their save DC (if any).
- Mercenary - “What’s it pay?” is usually the first question out of your lips. The job itself doesn’t matter, it’s not likely to surprise you anymore. This one seems a bit strange, though - going to help search for a forgotten Dwarven city? Still, the money’s good.
You start with an extra 200gp. You also gain a +1 trait bonus on either Bluff, Diplomacy or Intimidate.
- Missionary - The church has always supported you, and you’ve been serving your faith with conviction and dedication for years. You’re finally in an opportunity to repay their support - whether you’re looking to spread their message, or mystic visions have lead you here, it’s clear that you have a lot of work to do.
Choose one of the following skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (Religion), or Sense Motive. You gain a +2 bonus on that skill and it becomes a class skill.
- Savior of the Dwarves - The Dwarven plight has always had a special place in your heart. As the years have ticked by, the Dwarves have become fewer and fewer, their culture being lost more and more as they become further ingrained with the humans. You’ve decided that it’s long since time Dammerhall was restored to them, so their people could flourish once more.
You gain a +1 trait bonus to Knowledge (Geography) and +1 Survival. One of those becomes a class skill.
- Traitorous Exile (Drow) - Many Drow who are too important or valuable to kill are sent to distant outposts, such as Vothys, to live out their days in exile, furthering the Drow cause without being able to do any harm to it. For whatever reason, you were sent to one such place, but have since abandoned your post, fleeing the Drow civilization. Such acts are not quickly forgotten, and the Drow have not given up pursuing you, making you paranoid and quick to react.
You gain a +2 trait bonus to Initiative
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You copycat!
LN Wizard Duergar is what I'm planning. Unless someone wants desperately to go with the arcane caster...
I'm looking at a svirfneblin Alchemist (probably deep bomber) who is an escaped slave. After wandering in the darklands for a while, he eventually found civilization - but it was dwarven. At first they thought him a scout for a raiding party and imprisoned him, eventually they realised he was genuinely an escaped slave. During the discussion about what to do with him, the authorities realised that a prominent dwarf citizen was planning an expedition into the darklands and neede a guide (sorry the Oread Monk didn't work out).
At least some of his formulae will be based around escape/ movement (Expeditious retreat, no scent and Touch of the sea) and I hope to use a trait to gain the survival skill.
That's what I got so far.
Thinking Duergar Ranger, with the Deep Walker archetype.
Not 100% positive though, and will keep looking.
These all sound good, guys. A little surprised that everyone so far has been avoiding the new classes, but I'm certainly not complaining by any means.
Monkey, you should get Zach in here, too.
And I'm going to PM KDinIN about this, since I'm not sure he's been keeping up with the talks that lead to this point.
I hope to use a trait to gain the survival skill.
Good idea. Know the Land might be good / fitting for that, as Knowledge Nature would not be unhelpful, either.
I'm thinking about going Arcanist instead of wizard, but the uncertainty of it changing make me a little more careful about it. It is nicer than the wizard, I believe.
I try not to use the playtest stuff, save in an actual playtest, due to them eventually changing.
I'm thinking about going Arcanist instead of wizard, but the uncertainty of it changing make me a little more careful about it. It is nicer than the wizard, I believe.
I try not to use the playtest stuff, save in an actual playtest, due to them eventually changing.
I think the Arcanist is supposedly getting one of the larger rewrites, but I'm not sure if that already happened with the Revised Playtest that came out, or if they're doing a lot more. I hadn't really read up on it much because it didn't interest me much. (I've honestly never played a Sorcerer or Wizard before).
I really wanted to like the Shaman, but honestly it just looks terrible. The only two I've played are a Bloodrager, which is great fun, and the Investigator, which is quickly replacing the Bard as my favourite class.
I don't think most of them are going to change all that much. The final version is also supposed to be out in... August? And at most we'll have hit level 3 or 4 by then, so it would likely not be a whole lot to change, but I get that it could completely change your plan.
I also plan on creating a character that will definitely have strong advantages underground, since that's where I'm guessing most of the campaign takes place. Hence the Deep Walker. Not sure if any of the ACG really have that going for them.
That's 3 Duergar so far. We just need a dwarf and we will get the title of slowest party ever!! ^_^
That's very true, not having access to any of the possible archetypes for characters in the ACG is definitely a bummer.
Be careful of planning around one specific thing too much, though. I believe there will be some environmental variation throughout. More than one would expect from an Underdark campaign, at least. I know that Book 2 at least goes to a different type of location.
Okay neat!
So that tentatively puts us at:
Walter as a Duergar Wizard or Arcanist
Monkeygod as a Duergar Ranger
Gavmania as a Svirfneblin Alchemist
and Zachary as a Dwarven Monk or Paladin
All of which are of course subject to change at any time. I still haven't heard from KDinIN, but so far this is proving to be rather interesting. Not at all the assortment I was expecting.
Take your time getting the characters together. I'm fine with starting whenever everyone is ready, but I'm not in any rush. We can still work out backgrounds and possibly existing relationships and everything.
A healer would probably be better than a burglar, but that's just me....I'll get my character ready sometime later today... Anyway, this is a sample so you can imagine what's coming:
"Why I'm here? Because you morons lost your freaking city and took long enough to claim it back! For all I can see if someone capable as me does not step in you're screwed!"
One thing that's nice about the Deep Walker, if I choose to go that route, is that it doesn't really replace too much of the Ranger. The main change is a stronger, yet underground only, Favored Terrain.
Also, am now possibly thinking Elf, to take advantage of their terrain focused feats. But, still looking.
If anyone doesn't want to do this now that Tarlane is back, I totally understand, but I'm still interested in running it, so I'm still in if you guys are.
I'm totally still interested. The games are not even sorta similar, and I can always use another :)
Me too. I'll wait until you decide if we are moving forward or not, cause Throne of Night is kind of my karma. I've made three characters for it already, and none of them got to actually play it....
Since at least two of you are in (yay!), I'm definitely moving forward. If anyone ends up bailing, I'll ask a few people I know from other games if they're interested.
Ok now looking at possibly going Drow and Cavern Sniper archetype, and taking some of the Drow Noble feats.
Still uncertain.
Yorick,
Just checked in on this and got really excited. I have an idea in my head for a character, but I don't know how doable it is, and it will take me some time to flesh out but here is the basic idea.
I am thinking about a aged or possibly venerable old scholar. Probably would work best with a magic class, maybe a cleric or an aged bard. Either way, I am learning towards a non-dwarven option - a human who is sympathetic to the plight of the dwarves and has spent his entire life exploring all he can about the dwarves, etc. etc.
Not sure how this would all flesh out, but that is the basic thought process now. Let me know what you think and hopefully I will have some time tonight to look into this a bit more.
I hope to use a trait to gain the survival skill.Good idea. Know the Land might be good / fitting for that, as Knowledge Nature would not be unhelpful, either.
I was actually looking at Darklands delver Though I think that was developed for the darklands under Tian Xia. I felt it was more flavourful, if you're willing to allow it.
What specialty would be best for a wizard to have in this case, folks?
Aw I'm excited that everyone is in! :D
Yorick,
Just checked in on this and got really excited. I have an idea in my head for a character, but I don't know how doable it is, and it will take me some time to flesh out but here is the basic idea.
I am thinking about a aged or possibly venerable old scholar. Probably would work best with a magic class, maybe a cleric or an aged bard. Either way, I am learning towards a non-dwarven option - a human who is sympathetic to the plight of the dwarves and has spent his entire life exploring all he can about the dwarves, etc. etc.
Not sure how this would all flesh out, but that is the basic thought process now. Let me know what you think and hopefully I will have some time tonight to look into this a bit more.
That would absolutely work, and I really like the idea of having a human - even a single one - amidst these darker races. As someone who is older, you would definitely have seen how the humans have been prospering, and how the dwarves have been in a steady decline. Each race is not exactly whole right now, both are suffering, leaning on each other for a degree of stability. You are likely a pretty moral and compassionate person, which will be great. I also absolutely love the idea of a non-dwarf trying to preserve the dwarven culture.
I never cared for the aging rules as written, so if you'd like to use them, I'd allow This variant. Of course if you want to use the default rules, that's fine, too. I just feel like this adds more to it.
I was actually looking at Darklands delver Though I think that was developed for the darklands under Tian Xia. I felt it was more flavourful, if you're willing to allow it.
That would totally be fine, too.
What specialty would be best for a wizard to have in this case, folks?
The Shadowcaster Archetype definitely has some nice fluff and application. (Though I also don't care for Arcane Bond).
As for schools, I believe that Conjuration and Evocation are great for Battlefield Control, and Transmutation is fantastic for buffs. There are a few others that are decent, too. It really depends on how you want to play. You could even make Illusion work well.
One thing that's nice about the Deep Walker, if I choose to go that route, is that it doesn't really replace too much of the Ranger. The main change is a stronger, yet underground only, Favored Terrain.
Ok now looking at possibly going Drow and Cavern Sniper archetype, and taking some of the Drow Noble feats.
FYI, I know the Deep Walker doesn't change too many of the normal Ranger abilities, so I feel I should point out that I am all for allowing multiple archetypes, provided that they of course do not affect the same abilities.
[EDIT] Did not know that the Cavern Sniper was a Fighter Archetype. But my point still stands.
Looks like a possible need for a skill monkey... I am currently leaning more toward Bard, as the bardic knowledge could work really well, and also, the bard as a class would go well with the background of a bleeding heart dwarven activist that I am thinking about playing. Being that I haven't done much with Pathfinder since the other game, I haven't had a chance to look at the the new mythic rules. Are they in play and if so, what should I know about them lol.
What would the world political climate be in regards to the elven race. It sounds as if both the Humans and the Dwarves are struggling a bit, if that is the case, who is thriving? How much interaction would an elf have with dwarves and humans? I could do an elven bard who is old enough to remember the dwarves as a nation who has been an advocate for "dwarven rights" and finally is tired of talking and is ready to start putting action to his words.
Obviously, I am still uncertain lol
Obviously, I am still uncertain lol
No, yeah, absolutely take your time, there's certainly no rush.
Looks like a possible need for a skill monkey... I am currently leaning more toward Bard, as the bardic knowledge could work really well, and also, the bard as a class would go well with the background of a bleeding heart dwarven activist that I am thinking about playing. Being that I haven't done much with Pathfinder since the other game, I haven't had a chance to look at the the new mythic rules. Are they in play and if so, what should I know about them lol.
As I've said on multiple occasions, I absolutely adore Bards. I think they're one of the most useful, most versatile classes. (I used to bag on them all the time in 3.5 but man, I was so wrong.)
Mythic rules are an interesting idea. I honestly hadn't thought of it.
I believe the way it would work is that at a particular level, I'd give you guys a Mythic Tier in addition to leveling up, which would give you some kind of special ability, as well as a Feat or an Ability Score Modifier. You'd have essentially a "pool" of Mythic Power that you could use for those special abilities. The only thing you'd need to know is what path you'd want to take.
I could go either way with the Mythic rules. On one hand, it's cool because they supposedly make the game feel more 'epic', though I loathe that word. But essentially, I think it fits with the idea that you're the last chance of the dwarven people. If you, powerful as you are, cannot win back Dammerhall, then it is truly lost forever. On the other hand, the mythic rules eventually promote you to essentially being godlike, which is definitely further than I want this to go. There should always be the fear of death, and the knowledge that you are only people.
So basically, I'm not sold either way. What do you guys think? Are they something you'd like to use? If we were to use them, maybe a nice balance would be to not go up the entire track? Even 3 or 5 levels of Mythic could make a big difference.
What would the world political climate be in regards to the elven race. It sounds as if both the Humans and the Dwarves are struggling a bit, if that is the case, who is thriving? How much interaction would an elf have with dwarves and humans? I could do an elven bard who is old enough to remember the dwarves as a nation who has been an advocate for "dwarven rights" and finally is tired of talking and is ready to start putting action to his words.
Good question. The humans have actually been doing very well, economically, but it's easy to see how they're stagnating in some ways. Now that they just have dwarves, there are few humans who do stoneworking at all. Even the more well-meaning humans are essentially profiting off of, or at least hindering, the dwarven plight. This union makes the humans richer and both races weaker. They have gotten comfortable with a relationship that isn't really good for either of them.
I can see this as being somewhat disgusting to the elves. They tend to have a broader view of things, since they life longer, and I think many of them would see that the humans are making things worse. They aren't helping the dwarves to stand on their own, or rebuild their civilization, they're adopting them, and stripping away their culture to make them into shorter humans. I think economically the elves are probably doing just fine, and if one of them is going to get involved it's more, as you said, the ethical implications of it. As an older elf, too, you'd have seen how much the dwarven population has dwindled, and have reasons to believe that the dwarven people as we know them would be almost entirely gone within another century or so.
I say "yes please" to mythic rules.
Mythic Rules. Hmmm. I'm happy to go either way, but I will say this much: The campaign is not designed for it and would need to be adapted.
That's a lot of work for the GM. Why give yourself even more additional work, when you are already adapting it as it is.
In the end it's up to you.
If there is a need for a skill monkey, I can go Mindchemist and pick up a few skill focuses (or should that be foci?), as well as some very sweet knowledge bonuses (adds INT bonus twice). I have been debating about doing that anyway, so there would be no problem.
Yes, after thinking more about it, I will have to pass on the Mythic Rules for this one. The idea of adapting the campaign doesn't bother me terribly, but where it's not completely published, I have no idea what the writers have in mind for the later books, and I may shoot myself in the foot if I incorporate too many variations.
What's great about Mythic though is you can easily just add it in on a temp basis and if it turns out to be too much in the long run, based on the later books, have our Mythic power be taken back.
Or, you could just hold off, and add it in later, if you feel comfortable with doing so as the other books get published.
You can also message the Fire Mountain Games guy, as he seems to have a presence on the boards.
As for my PC, I'm thinking the Elven Ranger might be the best route, and am currently leaning that way right now.
So for me in terms of fleshing out a character, details are king. I don't know diddly squat about this particular campaign setting or anything like that, is there a place I could get some information from, an SRD or anything like that that could help with details like: World name, continent names, political nations names and relationships and geography. Timelines, and specific numbers speaking particularly about how many dwarven city-states, names, locations, relationships with the outside world, etc. etc.
The reason I ask is because of the guy I want to play. The brief sketch: A 325 year old Elven bard who for the first 15 years of his "adult" life, was the assistant to the Ambassador to the Dwarves at Dammerhill. Meaning he lived in the capital of the Dwarves, and befriended many in the city. The destruction really rocked him and all he believed in. He grieved over the friends and the mentor he lost, but soon, he begin grieving over the loss of something much bigger, the dwarven nation as a whole. He continued working as an ambassador from ______ elvish nation____ to the city states of the dwarves (or the close ones, or something...) and watched as their culture and their identity begin to erode and disappear with the civil strife and lack of unity. He became frustrated with the elves apathy to the Dwarvish plight, and so he resigned, and begin traveling around the human realms where many of the dwarves were living as refugees. His grief was taken to a new level as the corrupting influence of the Humans erroded more and more of the racial and cultural identities of the dwarves. He, using his past position, power, and authority, tried to leverage the humans toward restoring the dwarven nation, instead of trying to assimilate them for profit, but was mainly laughed at.
So in frustration and in grief, disappeared. In his travels, he had befriended many of the less long-lived races, and had learned many skills from them. Enough to be useful on the road. So he reappeared in disguise, as a traveling story teller, an peculiar elvish bard who spoke of dwarves legends. He traveled in and amongst the dwarven city states, and through the dwarven slums in the human cities, always sharing the stories, the legends, and the lore of the dwarves that he had learned in his lifetime. Stories that had long been forgotten by the dwindling race. In his mind, he decided, If he couldn't influence the powers that were corrupting the dwarves from the outside, maybe he could become like salt on the inside, preserving some of the noble and necessary traits and portions of the culture for this race from the corruption that was racing through their corporate species like poison.
The easy tie-in would be that his stories sparked something in (pick a dwarf) and he started to concoct this crazy idea of bringing back Dammerhill from the "dead" so to speak. He tracked down the weird old elven bard to see what else he knew. His knowledge not just of legend and lore, but also of Dammerhill was enough to impress the leader and to invite him along. This would be an easy decision for the bard to make seeing as this might be the spark to re-invigorating a dying race that he wanted nothing more than to save.
Still working on details (name being the big one lol) but details about the world will be important for this guy.
If Yorick doesn't mind, Golarion would be a really good fit for this game to be set in.
Their dwarves already have a built-in history that can easily be adopted for Throne of Night, and the world is fleshed out enough for all of us to craft a solid background.
Also, KD, if I stick with my own elven concept wanna tie our PCs together? Old friends?, family of one degree or another? Contemporaries?
Holy Hell, KD. That background idea is fantastic.
As to the questions about the campaign setting, there's literally next to nothing. I imagine that's intentional, to be able to use it in any kind of world. As most of it takes place underground, and the story is only centered on the nearly-extinct Dwarves and the underdwelling Drow, there's little mention of the world beyond, so generally speaking, it can be anything.
A fair part of what I've already presented, I've made up pretty much on the fly.
I think Monkeygod has the right idea. If you want to base anything on Golarion, that's probably the best bet. If you want to leave it vague, that works, too. If all else fails, make something up! You definitely have a good handle on the world. I had it in mind that one of the Dwarves would be the one to propose the journey to revive Dammerhall, but damned if the Elven Bard doesn't seem the most likely candidate to start the entire thing.
And speaking of relationships, for those of you who are planning to play duergar, it's likely that you're all from the same City-State, as there are not many left, and travel between them is difficult at best. For the purposes of this campaign, consider the duergar to be the remaining "True" Dwarves, in the sense that they still live underground and have not joined the humans. They look upon the surface dwarves with a mixture of disgust and pity, and their attitude towards them is essentially, 'They want to be human, so they're human. No longer Dwarves.' If relationships between them were strained, they're almost nonexistent now. There are maybe, I don't know, let's say three duergar city-states left. The surface dwarves have basically all been integrated into human society. That isn't to say that there aren't Dwarves who live alone, or aren't dwarven caravans, or anything like that, but the surface dwarves no longer have any civilizations of their own.
So far most people seem to be leaning towards Duergar, Elves, or Svirfneblin, which is totally great. I'd like it if someone played a Dwarf, simply for the roleplaying possibilities, but I certainly won't try to force it on anyone. I think Zach said he was leaning towards one, which would be awesome.
Oh, also: Given the description of, well, something in the book, it seems like this game may eventually involve the Kingmaker rules. And if it doesn't, I'll probably be inclined to put them in anyway, so prepare for the possibility of leading in some kind of capacity. Whether it's Dammerhall or even an outpost, that may be a possibility.
For the record, when it comes to the actual leader of a Kingmaker Civilization, I do not use Charisma. If you want to be a Charismatic leader, you can, but you're not required to. There is no reason that a leader couldn't instead be Intelligent, or Wise.
Can I use my craft (Alchemy) skill to get some half price alchemical goods? and if so , how much?
If Yorick doesn't mind, Golarion would be a really good fit for this game to be set in.
Their dwarves already have a built-in history that can easily be adopted for Throne of Night, and the world is fleshed out enough for all of us to craft a solid background.
Also, KD, if I stick with my own elven concept wanna tie our PCs together? Old friends?, family of one degree or another? Contemporaries?
If you go with Elves, I suggest you use the Darkvision alternate racial trait. This would make sense for an elven ambassador to dammerhall; it would also give you a connection even if you don't decide to be related (there are few elves and even fewer with darkvision, it makes sense that they would stay in contact). Also it would be helpful if we did not have to use torches (might as well hold up a sign saying: "Tasty Morsels, come and get us").
I Kinda assumed it was Golarion we were starting in. Janderhoff makes for a good surface dwarven city (even though most of it is actually underground), and would be ideal for my characters purposes.
I have a working name for my character ("Gumar" - probably short for something suitably gnomish) and a basic personality. He's a pessimist; all doom and gloom and we're probably all gonna die (kind of a cross between marvin the paranoid android and fraser from dad's Army - only without the scottish accent).
He knows that he needs to be with people to survive in the darklands, so that's why he's willing to go with the expedition, but he has no real interest in dammerhall or dwarven glory or anything else. He is only interested in surviving (and not in a topside city; these topsiders are crazy!)
Can I use my craft (Alchemy) skill to get some half price alchemical goods? and if so , how much?
You can certainly use the skill, but how much is somewhat background dependent. You'd mentioned going with the svirfneblin escaped slave background, who was then somewhat imprisoned by the Duergar before becoming a caravan escort. So, how long ago was that? Does he still live with the Duergar or has he gone back his own people? It's mostly a matter of how established you are in wherever you happen to be living, and what that place happens to be.
The story is that he escaped from the drow. As a young svirfneblin, he was apprenticed to an alchemist and learned the basics, but before he reached his majority, drow conquered his burrow. he and many of his people were taken as slaves. The drow either didn't know or didn't care about his alchemical skills, and set him to serving in the fields where the mushrooms grow. So long as he met his quota (which took most of his time), they were left largely alone (although they were watched). He was able to cobble together some alchemical substances by using cavern pools, mushrooms, bits of ooze and various algae; but it still wasn't enough. He learned what he could from other prisoners, picking up tips on survival in the darklands, then he faked a disease so that he would get sent to the Brimstone mines (where they send those slaves that are near death anyway as it is extremely dangerous there). The guards do not enter the mines; they count them in and count them out and any differences is assumed to be due to death from the poisonous fumes or the oozes. But brimstone is an important alchemical substance from which many extracts are made; with enough supplies he was able to make his escape.
Alongside the mines lay a fast-flowing river. Despairing slaves were known to occasionally throw themselves in to end their painful lives. using a Touch of the sea extract, he was able to navigate the river a good long way, avoiding many of the rocks with his superior swim skill. As an added precaution, he quaffed a no scent potion before leaving the river.
and it worked. He was free, but alone in the wilderness. He does not know how long he wandered, but each time (afraid of pursuit), he chose narrow paths, paths that the drow could not get through. He also chose paths that went up, reasoning that they would expect him to follow streams and rivers down.
After many months, maybe even years, he came across a dwarven patrol from (Janderhoff if that's our base, other wise insert Dwarf city here). Being generally suspicious of the underground races, they assumed he was a scout for a raiding party. They took him into custody, but he kept insisting he was an escaped slave, and his clothes (more like rags), chains and other jury-rigged equipment eventually persuaded them that he was telling the truth (that and the fact that svirfneblin don't usually raid), so he was let go.
Keenly aware that he survived the darklands largely by luck, he determined to try making a life for himself amongst the topsiders, but it did not work out. Topsiders are all mad, as far as he can tell. What is valued by darklanders is considered worthless by topsiders and vice verse. Plus the big light hurts his eyes, so he accepts an invitation to go to the darklands as a guide.
The amount of time spent in the topside city can be as long or as short as necessary. I would imagine long enough for his existence to come to the attention of the expedition organisers, but not long enough for him to get used to the strange topside ways. Gumar is homesick, or at least in need of a friend. His gruff demeanour and pessimistic nature keeps everyone at bay (plus he's a darklander. You can't trust darklanders). He is looking for a way out, as is made obvious by the fact that he continues to make sure he has useful extracts on him (useful for surviving in the darklands, that is; not necessarily useful for a topside city).
If we are going with a duergar city then he can be homesick for his own people, or just looking for a useful niche in society. It is not so strong a story, but it will work.
If Yorick doesn't mind, Golarion would be a really good fit for this game to be set in.
Their dwarves already have a built-in history that can easily be adopted for Throne of Night, and the world is fleshed out enough for all of us to craft a solid background.
I am alright with going with Golarion... Where would the location of the Dammerhill Mountain be? Just to figure out where on Golarion we will be spending some time.
Also, KD, if I stick with my own elven concept wanna tie our PCs together? Old friends?, family of one degree or another? Contemporaries?
I am alright with making a connection... I am curious how it will work though. In my head, my guy left the elven nation in frustration at their apathy, and hasn't been back since, or possibly only once or twice since. (I imagine that to be a century or more...) So if there is a connection, it is probably either unknown, or one that has been maintained via long distance communication, or something like that.
If we have a Dwarf (I thought I saw one listed in the recap post earlier, but I can't seem to find it right now) from the topside, it could be said that the last trip up, the elvish bard convinced a young dwarf to find out more about his past, his heritage and its culture, and they travelled to a Duegar city to experience the beauty of the underworld. Maybe even Gumar jumps along to accompany the two to the underworld. (Or Gumar heard one of the bard's tales and heard that he was heading to a Duegar city-state and asked to tag along?) Either way, that would give a few of us connections if we wanted to go that direction.
Side question: The Svirfneblen society, how connected was it to the dwarven society when Dammerhill was prominent?
Apart from 1 great city, svirfneblin in Golarion tend to live in smaller communities (Burrows). This is something they share with their surface counterparts. I can't find any great detail of svirfneblin beyond that (Yorick may have more).
It is probable that, at it's height, dwarves from Dammerhall traded with nearby svirfneblin burrows. After it's fall, many would have moved away, but some still remain.
Remember that Dammerhall is in Nar-Voth (the shallow, upper caverns of the darklands which is mostly wilderness) while most svirfneblin live in Sekamina (The expansive middle region, mostly controlled by drow). Unless Dammerhall has a connection to Sekamina or there is one nearby, the contact with svirfneblin would be limited.
I have the feeling that explaining how you all get together might be somewhat difficult, but we'll see how it goes. Once I have rough story drafts from everyone, I'll throw up a post containing my (rough) explanation, and if that sounds good, we can refine some details and relationships. I'm betting that at least two or three of you will know each other beforehand - though not necessarily well.
Also, bit of trivia: 3 days ago I had to look up how to spell "Svirfneblin" every time I went to type it, and now I've written it so damn much, it has become second nature.
(Gavmania's Background)
Okay, cool, that's a great story Gav. I love the Drow underestimating you and you tricking them, that'll fit really well into an Alchemist character, especially a Svirfneblin. My tweak to this would be the following, if it gels with you (Other players may not want to read this, as it contains some (light) spoilers for the beginning of the first chapter.)
This Svirfneblin City still trades with, whatever the hell the name of the topside city is that we start in. There something of a 'highway' in the underground - the Duergar also use it. When the duergar free you, they'll ask you to escort one of their caravans to the surface along this road, which will take you right past the Svirfneblin town. So the plan is that you escort them all the way out, and then you're free to turn around and go there. This will give you a window of time (3-4 days?) aboveground to meet the PCs (plus a couple of them are Duergar, so this might start with them being with you already) and then that sets you up to be a bit of the guide for the first segment, as we're going towards the closest thing you have to a home, though you have never been there. You will have heard stories of it from your youth, which I'll of course clue you in on.
I am alright with going with Golarion... Where would the location of the Dammerhill Mountain be? Just to figure out where on Golarion we will be spending some time.
For the sake of argument, let's say that the Dwarven Kingdom of Dammerhall was underneath the Five Kings Mountains, where the city of Highhelm actually resides. Why not, they're both the Dwarven capital. With that said, though, I have literally no idea how much ground we'll be covering when we move underground, so I have no idea how far away from that we should actually be. This first book has us covering more than 200 miles, and I don't even see Dammerhall on the map. For the sake of it doesn't matter just pick someplace, let's say we're going to start in, I don't know, Nirmathas?
If we have a Dwarf (I thought I saw one listed in the recap post earlier, but I can't seem to find it right now) from the topside, it could be said that the last trip up, the elvish bard convinced a young dwarf to find out more about his past, his heritage and its culture, and they travelled to a Duegar city to experience the beauty of the underworld. Maybe even Gumar jumps along to accompany the two to the underworld. (Or Gumar heard one of the bard's tales and heard that he was heading to a Duegar city-state and asked to tag along?) Either way, that would give a few of us connections if we wanted to go that direction.
Zach had expressed interest in being either a Dwarven Monk or Paladin with the Stonelord archetype. That may have changed, though. And obviously I'll leave this background stuff up to him.
Part of the reason that I think it would be fun to have both Duergar and Dwarves is this entire idea. Like, who is the best candidate for this? Will the Duergar respect a surface Dwarf in charge? There's a lot here with uniting the Dwarven people again, and I think having some inner-party... tension, would be pretty interesting.
Side question: The Svirfneblen society, how connected was it to the dwarven society when Dammerhill was prominent?
They had trade routes but generally stayed out of each other's ways. They didn't have a ton in common beyond stone, and were both relatively private.
Both have been suffering quite terribly in the past years. Your characters may not all know much about this (word doesn't really travel much from the Underdark), but since some of you may be considering the race, I'll say that there are not many Svirfneblin cities left, due to Drow expansion.
That said, the Svirfneblin and Dwarf/Duergar relationships back then were considerably better than now. The Svirfneblin have been slammed by the Drow enough to be terrified of spies, and the Duergar have seen what outside influence did to the other Dwarves.
Literally the only people who are doing well are the humans. Those bastards.
[EDIT] Whoops, as I was fact-checking, Gav got in another post.
Apart from 1 great city, svirfneblin in Golarion tend to live in smaller communities (Burrows). This is something they share with their surface counterparts. I can't find any great detail of svirfneblin beyond that (Yorick may have more).
It is probable that, at it's height, dwarves from Dammerhall traded with nearby svirfneblin burrows. After it's fall, many would have moved away, but some still remain.
So far as this Campaign is concerned, the Svirfneblin may not even have large cities any more. They're not doing well, either. I'm in agreement that there was likely trade between Dammerhall and the Burrows, but the Burrows have been sacked.
Remember that Dammerhall is in Nar-Voth (the shallow, upper caverns of the darklands which is mostly wilderness) while most svirfneblin live in Sekamina (The expansive middle region, mostly controlled by drow). Unless Dammerhall has a connection to Sekamina or there is one nearby, the contact with svirfneblin would be limited.
I'm... not sure if that's true in the case of this AP. I'm going to do some more reading on it in case I'm wrong, though.
[EDIT #2] While looking for that, I found something interesting that I want to share.
Towards the back of the book it lists some hooks for running an all-Dwarf party, how to roleplay Dwarves, blah blah blah. It also has some options for alternate Ability Scores for Dwarves, such that they seem more varied and better fit the different classes. So anyone who does end up wanting to play a Dwarf can totally use these.
Clever Hands: +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha. You were born artisan, cunning and quick with your hands. Whether you have chosen to use these gifts for noble pursuits or becoming a thief does not matter, you are mistrusted regardless by your fellow dwarves.
Respected Speaker: +2 Cha, +2 Wis, -2 Str. You are a rare dwarf who is both eloquent and a born leader. Your words are given extra consideration amongst your people. However, by dwarven standards you are physically inept.
Scholar of the Ancient Ways: +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Con. You are a learned dwarf, well steeped in the ancient lore of your people. However, all this focus upon book learning has kept you away from more physical pursuits. You are small and sickly by dwarven standards.
Trickster and Singer: +2 Cha, +2 Dex, -2 Wis. Dwarves have a reputation as being a stolid, humourless people. But there are a few dwarves, usually fine singers and storytellers, who are given leeway for being charismatic and quick of hand and wit. Of course, these brash tricksters are still often in trouble.
Warrior of Legend: +2 Con, +2 Str, -2 Wis. You were born for war. No one matches your prowess in battle, but alas, also no one matches your recklessness.
M#+@~!!&@&~@, this is where the Campaign Traits were too. WHO PUTS THAT STUFF AT THE BACK OF THE BOOK? THIS IS ALL LITERALLY IN THE APPENDIX. Hell with it. I don't care. I like my traits better.
However, it did give one good idea. Anyone who is playing a Race that does not have the option of Darkvision can sacrifice your second Trait to gain it. I don't expect that will be a problem, but it is an option.
[EDIT #3] This thread is bound to get confusing soon, so tomorrow I'm going to start moving "finalized" information over to the Campaign Tab so that we can refer to things easily.
^_^
Now that the Duergar is ready you say that...
So I have been doing some internet scouring in terms of golarion and adjusting it to this campaign, or vice versa at least lol. How about this:
Dammerhall = Highhelm. (dang it, Yorick beat me to it... probably appropriate as he is the DM and all lol)
3 remaining Duegar city-states
Janderhoff in Varisia
Kraggodan in Nirmathus
Kravenkus in Taldor (Probably near Maheto on the Taldor map)
Those are three existing sky citadels that still exist supposedly. We could even cut the sky citadel part out entirely and say they are all located in mountain ranges that are connected in the Nar-Voth and are relatively close to entrances to the surface world. But seeing as the Duegar have isolated themselves, they don't allow much in the way of outside visitors? I don't know about that part, but I got excited when I was able to link geography.
This makes great sense if my character was an ambassador from Kyonin. Leaving Kyonin, he would have travelled all over Avistan visiting dwarven communities and refugees, as well as regularly visiting all of the Duegar city-states, even as they dwindeled in number down to three.
Sound reasonable?
[Edit 1]
However, it did give one good idea. Anyone who is playing a Race that does not have the option of Darkvision can sacrifice your second Trait to gain it. I don't expect that will be a problem, but it is an option.
Will the traited darkvision have light sensitivity to go along with it? Just curious...
[Edit 2]
So if I use the aging variant you proposed... I would have 4 flaws, and 4 extra feats? I want to make sure I am reading that right lol.
If so, here are my 4 rolls... if not, I will adjust as needed.
[Edit 3]
OUCH! Those flaws suck!
10 = Nemesis (*)
One selected kind of monster (DM's choice) treats you as a Favoured Enemy. If rerolled, the DM can pick another.
11 = Noncombatant
You take a -2 penalty on all melee attack rolls.
17 = Unreactive
You take a -6 penalty on initiative checks.
20 = Wizened (*) (X)
In terms of carrying, endurance and lifting, the character is assumed to be one size level smaller than he or she actually is. So a Dwarf or a Human would be considered Small, a Halfling or Gnome would be considered Tiny and so on. They can still do damage and use weapons, armour and equipment equal to their size, however.
Alright, right now(unless I find something WAY better), I am likely going Deep Walker Ranger, and then eventually Lantern Bearer
Also, I was thinking of being older myself, but I was wondering if it was possible to choose my flaw? I was actually thinking Nemesis, though I didn't read them all yet.
I am all for picking flaws, because rolling kind of blows lol. It makes for a fun process, but unreactive and noncombatant... basically means I am a bump on a log in combat lol.
Monkey, how old are we talking here?