Your health comes first!
If there’s anything we can do for you, just name it.
Level 4 Brawler
HP: 5+3 Con(1 point in con for level up) +1 Tougness +1 FCB=10
+1 Bab
+1 Fort/Ref
AC Bonus +1
Knoxkout 1/day DC 16
Unarmed damage increase 1d8
+1 Acrobatics
+1 Climb
+1 Perception
+1 Stealth
+1 Profession-Clown/Perform-Comedy
Acid orb is an instantaneous effect. The acid doesn't stick around.
Sure. But it does hitpoint damage, which means it hurts. And it doesn't stop hurting immediately, any more than a knife wound would. (I don't speak from actual stabbity experience, but it kitchen knives are any indication "non-lethal" knife wounds hurt like hell.) What are you supposed to do if you're burned by acid? Rinse it off, immediately. Evalee is feeling burned, and since she knows the spell she knows that it's acid what's burning her, so she's going to roll around in the dirt until it makes her feel better or she's certain that it won't.
The DM mentioned it in the gameplay, but my posting will be fairly limited until next Saturday. I’ll still be reading the game, and posting most days, but stuff like rolling tons of dice or moving about on a battlemap may prove beyond me.
Rolling dice and moving around the map shouldn't be necessary. We're out of initiative.
It is written that, "Another useful application of this concept involves accepting story hooks your DM gives to you. Try to never just say, "My character isn't interested in that adventure." A lot of people mistake this for good roleplaying, because you are asserting your character's personality. Wrong. Good roleplaying should never bring the game to a screeching halt. One of your jobs as a player is to come up with a reason why your character would be interested in a plot. After all, your personality is entirely in your hands, not the DM's. Come up with a reason why the adventure (or the reward) might appeal to you, no matter how esoteric or roundabout the reasoning."
But I'm having a really hard time grasping for a reason why Evalee would remain with the circus rather than summon a horse and ride off to Veilsport to report an assault with a lethal weapon/attempted murder. And I'm having an equally hard time trying to think of a reason why Semsephiel would let Evalee stay with the circus, this place is friggin' dangerous and Sephy don't care to work with cannons so loose they burn people's eyes out for . . . voyeurism? It doesn't really fit Whitecloak's characterization, so it seems more likely to Evalee that the knife-thrower was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. We were kind of told to try and break into this place; why would anyone be taking a bath instead of keeping watch?
But I'm having a really hard time grasping for a reason why Evalee would remain with the circus rather than summon a horse and ride off to Veilsport to report an assault with a lethal weapon/attempted murder.
I think I made things sound more brutal when I wrote it down than they were in my head. Remember that this is a world where the damage being done can be healed in 6 seconds, with no lasting damage.
Also, with regard to going to authorities, I haven't gone very far into political details of the setting, but Vliasport is an independent citystate. While these events were in close proximity to the city, they weren't inside it, and neither party was a citizen, so it's not clear that the city guards would consider it their jurisdiction. Within the carnival, Maleffect is the ultimate authority, and I hope I made it clear that he doesn't approve.
And I'm having an equally hard time trying to think of a reason why Semsephiel would let Evalee stay with the circus, this place is friggin' dangerous and Sephy don't care to work with cannons so loose they burn people's eyes out
She didn't burn his eyes out. Nathaniel did get himself into a fight he couldn't win with a more powerful character, who fights using fire-based magical abilities, and he got her angry enough to stop pulling her punches. It sounds extreme, but I urge you to keep in mind that this is a world where these types of magical abilities, as well as the magic to heal the damage they do, is fairly commonplace. It's a little difficult, in fact, to explain how Ashak ended up with his burn scars in such a world, but there are certainly pockets where this magic is harder to come by.
I'll admit that I probably spent too much time thinking about how events would play out between non-player characters (a group that now includes Nathaniel), and I probably should have spent more time considering the other characters' initial reactions. The scenario hasn't played out entirely yet (read: give me a chance to try to dig myself out of the narrative pit I've gotten myself into), but if at the end of it, your characters decide against joining the carnival, that would be a valid character decision. I don't think I can run two separate tables for characters that do and don't decide to leave with the carnival, but if you all decide to do something else, that would be disappointing in that a lot of what I had planned wouldn't work, but it wouldn't have to be the end of the campaign.
Keep in mind that although this pbp started almost a year ago, your characters first met Nathanel less than five days earlier in game time, and though they've been trying to work as a team most of that time, they still don't know him (or each other) all that well.
We were kind of told to try and break into this place; why would anyone be taking a bath instead of keeping watch?
Gotta do it sometime. Zeera's not the type of character to go more than three days without bathing, and there was some bad timing involved. I only went so far back in generating events that led up to what happened, but I'll point out that there are plenty of reasons that cleaning oneself might be an urgent matter.
for . . . voyeurism? It doesn't really fit Whitecloak's characterization, so it seems more likely to Evalee that the knife-thrower was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Sounds like you've got a fairly accurate idea of the inciting events, and they seem to me to be exactly in line with how Nathaniel, as characterized by his (former) player, would respond in the situation he found himself in. He was definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time, but he also did the wrong thing in that situation, and it also turned out to be the dangerous thing. There's definitely fault on both sides, and Maleffect's reaction was meant to show that Ashyr's actions, though provoked, were not the considered acceptable behavior. Ashyr's reaction to Maleffect was meant to show that she doesn't expect to escape punishment.
for . . . voyeurism? It doesn't really fit Whitecloak's characterization, so it seems more likely to Evalee that the knife-thrower was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Btw, I'll let you in on some details that I've only been able to hint at vaguely, because nobody has taken any of the opportunities I've offered to get to know the NPCs (who I probably spent far too much time building, waiting for the group I originally built this campaign for to get together long enough to meet them). Ashyr and Zeera are in a relationship, and each of them actually has a drawback keyed to the other. Ashyr was standing watch in front of the tent in an attempt to avoid this type of situation when Nathaniel snuck up to the back (this timing was also orchestrated to remove a couple of the carnival's higher-level NPCs from the game, leaving an opening in the defenses).
So, Ashyr (the hot-tempered one, with a default attitude of Unfriendly toward any male character) catches Nathaniel (who has already managed to increase that attitude to Hostile) peeping on Zeera. Given these details, would you really expect her NOT to overreact?
Honestly? I'd expect Ashyr to act like a person, rather than a caricature of a person.
To start, how the hell is she not in prison?
But the thing that really gets my proverbial goat, even more than the assault with a lethal weapon, is what I perceive as the contrived nature of the plot that seems to be playing bigotry for drama, on a handful of levels. It's probably not your intent to offend or make uncomfortable, but I'm vaguely offended and less vaguely uncomfortable.
:\
All of my characters have personality flaws (some worse than others), and I don't think you can have a fully-developed character without them. This is also not a modern world, and yes, many of the characters in it are bigoted in various ways.
I did not mean to offend or make anyone uncomfortable, and constructive criticism is always welcome. Real people have flaws too, though, and one of mine is a lower-than-average ability to figure out what's going on in other people's heads. That said, it's starting to sound like I've stumbled onto a personal hot-button issue here. I'd appreciate if you would explain what, specifically, about this situation is making you uncomfortable (via PM, if that would make you more comfortable), so that I can both avoid this particular issue in the future and grow as a writer more generally.
I don't always have the most, uh, clarity in my writing. Somewhere between when I think my thoughts and when I commit them to a computer screen they get . . . jumbled. I'll try to be concise. Tell me if anything that I'm saying makes any sense at all.
I also sometimes offend people without meaning to. I default to being politely direct because I lack the social graces for anything more, but sometimes the 'polite' part doesn't come across, especially in writing.
So, Ashyr was initially described with male pronouns, but then (surprise!) she turned out to be a girl. 'Course, no one really cared what gender she is, any more than any other descriptive detail. It's not even a "check your assumptions" moment, because she was described with male pronouns. It seemed to me that we the readers were supposed to be surprised, like it was a big reveal, presumably on account of her being a lesbian (how extraordinary! How beyond the pale!) but as far as I can tell it didn't change how any of our characters thought about the halfling at all.
And then Ashyr picked a fight with Whitecloak, a fight that as far as I could tell the swashbuckler had no interest in fighting. Whitecloak responded to the unprovoked aggression with a quip, as one would expect, at which Ashyr apparently became homicidally hostile, biding her time to light him on fire. At no point in this did Nate really have any control over events, the subplot was more or less forced on him (and, by extension, the rest of the players).
Reading over what I've written, it isn't looking particularly concise. So, let's take two.
Any person who'll attack someone with a lethal weapon for being the wrong gender in the wrong place at the wrong time, anyone who'd stab someone (let alone light them on fire) for stumbling in on their girlfriend taking a bath would wind up under lock and key sooner rather than later.
Ashyr doesn't seem to me so much like a real person in a real setting as she does a caricature of a person, a "hot-headed" "fiery redhead" who . . . well, who lights people on fire. She is, to put it bluntly, a crazy lunatic who should under no circumstances be free to interact with the public. Alignment is kinda sorta really bogus, but if Ashyr didn't ping as Evil (hitdice limitations aside) I'd raise an eyebrow so high it'd float right off my face.
And it's really unfortunate that fully half of the lesbians in the carnival are man hating psychopaths with impaired empathy and hecka strong antisocial tendencies.
Okay, I'll go ahead and share my take on this situation. Not sure how helpful it will be, but here's another player's perspective on how this went down.
First off, I definitely share a sense of discomfort with the way Ashyr is being portrayed. That said, I'm trying to view this part of the story as charitably as I can, and I think there are a few things to keep in mind.
While the setup for the initial gender reveal did come across as a bit odd, I saw that as simply an attempt to translate the unconscious expectations someone in a patriarchal society might have about the gender of an unseen warrior onto the written page. Since English happens to see gendered pronouns as a default, I don't think there's an easy way to represent that sort of preconception in narration without implying a certain gender right off the bat.
As for the level of violence, I agree (as does Erin) that Ashyr's actions are horrifying in the extreme. I'll note, however, that the original recruitment post explicitly said that evil PCs are welcome, so it would not be unreasonable to expect that a carnival worker might show cruel or vicious behavior as well. For that matter, isn't Semsephiel himself Evil with a capital 'E'? It's been played for laughs rather than for shock value, but didn't that backstory mention something about slaughtering armies? My point being that maybe we don't need to view the carnival as anything remotely resembling 'the good guys.'
Likewise with the notion of legal repurcussions. From day one all of these carnival games have involved a level of violence that, in real life, would send someone screaming for the authorities. Part of the conceit of a fantasy RPG, I think, is that in a world full of supernatural healing and harms, violence is seen as proportionally less consequential. None of this is said to defend what took place, but simply to suggest it might be helpful to keep questions of in-game realism separate from questions of real-world tonal appropriateness.
Ultimately, I think my own discomfort arises mostly from the feeling that Ashyr's behavior seems, as was said, more of a caricature than an actual person. And a particularly concerning caricature given how her relationship with Zeera is presented. I'm not sure I'd quite call her man-hating, given that she unleashed similar protective fury on a squirrel, but the portrayal is problematic to say the least. This was compounded by a few railroady interactions, in my mind, to the point where Ashyr's conflict with Nathaniel and the party feels basically put on for show.
I'm certain, of course, that this was all benignly intended. It's definitely possible to portray flawed characters in a constructive way. But maybe this particular situation deserves a closer look going forward.
Thank you both for your candor. Erin, your interpretations of these things was, for the most part, spot-on.
The three champions were the first NPCs I came up with for this game, and there were a lot of personality traits that I wanted to be represented among them. I also wanted to make these characters very distinct from one another, and Ashyr ended up with all of the dangerous-to-be-around story genes. As for "fully half of the lesbians", I didn't really consider that particular correlation. I decided that one of the three champions should have some anti-social issues that could lead to some conflict within the carnival (and the huge bruiser was immediately eliminated for a number of reasons), and I also decided that I wanted to include some LGBTQ characters. With the limited number of characters to work with and a desire to avoid giving characters only a single personality trait to define them, those two ended up in the same character. I'll point out, though, that it is an extremely small sample set. I suppose this is why scientists and statisticians spend so little time actually talking about percentages of populations and so much talking about things like standard deviations, statistical significance, p-values, etc.
I'll also point out that you don't know that none of the members of the carnval besides Ashyr and Zeera are LGBTQ ones, so calling it half might be a bit hasty.
For the pronoun issue, I actually had an "oh no" moment when I began describing Ashyr's appearance and actions and quickly realized that I only had three options: Use the correct pronouns, which did not represent the assumptions that the PCs were supposed to make (for exactly the reasons Erin stated), I could avoid using pronouns entirely (I actually tried this and it sounded so unnatural that it wouldn't have solved the problem anyway), or I could narrate what the PCs would perceive rather than narrating the truth of the matter. I chose the last option, but it was a hasty decision, and was executed much more clumsily than I intended. I didn't expect this to be a "check your assumptions" moment for the players, but I had sorta hoped that at least one of the characters might seize on it as a roleplaying opportunity for their character to have one. (I wasn't trying to surprise the players, I was trying to surprise the characters, and maybe that would have been better accomplished by being more honest with the players, but as I said, the decision was made hastily.)
Likewise, the previous interactions between Ashyr and Nathaniel were me trying to use aspects of NPC personalities to dangle threads for roleplay interactions. I agree that they ended up seeming forced, but what I was trying (and failing) to do was encourage some deeper roleplay from characters (Nathaniel in particular, who I was concerned was too shallow a character, in more than one sense of the word). The reactions to these attempts were frustrating, both to the NPCs involved and to me as a GM. I tried other angles to get some more character development out of Nathaniel, and they didn't work any better. Maybe I was being too subtle?
And, if I'm being completely honest, when Nathaniel's player dropped out without any word, and I discovered that his player had been continuing to post in other games while ignoring this one, the solution I came up with to remove him from the story was partially motivated by this frustration (and I also overdramatized the situation in my description, which I have repeatedly tried to walk-back). He also left me without any RP threads that I felt I could use to create a reason for him suddenly deciding to walk away, and in hindsight, I probably should have just had him climb a tree then fall and break his neck, but that's not the idea that came to mind at the time.
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'Suspension of disbelief' is pretty much needed for fantasy games like Pathfinder. Such as 'Why doesn't some wandering wraith kill off an tire village in one night and flood the countryside with undead?' as well as 'Four person bands as viable monster elimination option' instead of 'Four psychos who would be hunted down really quick'
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Or how in the Nine Hells Pogug has lived this long.
I'll note, however, that the original recruitment post explicitly said that evil PCs are welcome, so it would not be unreasonable to expect that a carnival worker might show cruel or vicious behavior as well. For that matter, isn't Semsephiel himself Evil with a capital 'E'? It's been played for laughs rather than for shock value, but didn't that backstory mention something about slaughtering armies? My point being that maybe we don't need to view the carnival as anything remotely resembling 'the good guys.'
That’s certainly fair. It’s more than a little hypocritical for the player of an Evil character to complain about there being a violent and cruel NPC.
I guess where I see the difference is, I’m a fan of group cohesion; as long as the party can sort out their differences without infighting or splitting the group, well, it takes all sorts, dunnit? And part of that is not playing a wantonly dickish PC a la Belkar Bitterleaf. Where I made my mistake is, I think, that I’ve been viewing the NPCs in the carnival as, more or less, part of the group, and expecting them to follow some manner‘ve social contract.
None of this is said to defend what took place, but simply to suggest it might be helpful to keep questions of in-game realism separate from questions of real-world tonal appropriateness.
Aight. You’re right.
Really, it’s concerns of tonal appropriateness that get my proverbial goat; I’m certain that if I wasn’t peeved at this portrayal I’d have no issues with in-world verisimilitude.
And a particularly concerning caricature given how her relationship with Zeera is presented. I'm not sure I'd quite call her man-hating, given that she unleashed similar protective fury on a squirrel, but the portrayal is problematic to say the least.
Well, she was stated to have a starting attitude of "unfriendly" to all people of the male persuasion. I think her sexism and creepy possessiveness combine to give the impression of a low key psycho lesbian. (Low key being, of course, relative.)
Ashyr ended up with all of the dangerous-to-be-around story genes. As for "fully half of the lesbians", I didn't really consider that particular correlation.
From a perspective outside the writer's head, Ashyr being both lesbian and violently mentally ill doesn't seem like a correlation at all; it comes across as a causation or perhaps just one thing that's untangleably tangled up with itself. The reasons that she's dangerous to be around are that she hates all men and is distressingly dependent on/protective of/possessive of her girlfriend. Those psychoses would make one heck of a lot less sense if Ashyr was straight.
I wouldn't bat an eye if Ashyr was both a lesbian and, say, paranoid and untrusting in the extreme. That's a grade-A antisocial tendency right there. Or, if I did bat an eye, it would be an in-character eye instead of an ooc "I'm feeling vaguely offended and less vaguely uncomfortable" eye. Likewise, I wouldn't bat an eye if you gender inverted Ashyr and Zeera and kept Ashyr as is; the persistent negative stereotypes associated with being a gay man don't include being sexist and violent. Hell, I'd happily roleplay Evalee's way through social encounters with a male woman-hating Ashyr. (Though I imagine she'd take to avoiding him pretty darn quick.)
. . .
Well, I've said my piece, more or less. So, I'll thank you for your candor too. I think I see where you're coming from, and I know you didn't mean to give offense (not that I ever thought you meant too), so . . . yeah. Signing off.
Words.
Chagrin. I'll stop talking so's that you can get in the game.
I wouldn't bat an eye if Ashyr was both a lesbian and, say, paranoid and untrusting in the extreme. That's a grade-A antisocial tendency right there. Or, if I did bat an eye, it would be an in-character eye instead of an ooc "I'm feeling vaguely offended and less vaguely uncomfortable" eye. Likewise, I wouldn't bat an eye if you gender inverted Ashyr and Zeera and kept Ashyr as is; the persistent negative stereotypes associated with being a gay man don't include being sexist and violent. Hell, I'd happily roleplay Evalee's way through social encounters with a male woman-hating Ashyr. (Though I imagine she'd take to avoiding him pretty darn quick.)
Really? I was thinking of the "psycho boyfriend" trope and transposing it onto a female character. This was, apparently, much less novel than I thought it would be.
As for this being more stereotypical for a female homosexual character than a male one, I'm not sure that fits my experience, but I claim no special expertise. If true, this would seem to indicate that psychotic possessiveness, at least in the minds of fiction writers (which may or may not reflect reality), correlates less strongly with one's own gender than with the gender that one is attracted to (or whatever awkward phrasing is required to avoid ending that sentence with a preposition). It might be interesting to know how the portrayal of these traits in fiction compares to the prevalence in reality. As an introvert, I don't meet nearly enough people to attempt an analysis that would approach statistical significance, and even a gregarious person is likely to have a view that is skewed one way or the another based on the makeup of their social circles.
Anyway, I'm rambling now. I'll reiterate my apology for any offense/uncomfortableness I have caused. It was not my intention. Is everyone comfortable moving on?
I'm kinda waiting to see what your characters will do/say when they discover the feast waiting for them.
On another note, though you will be getting some money for successfully completing the audition process, you're probably going to be significantly behind the wealthy by level table for a while (especially if you don't elect to try fighting the champions again). How would you guys feel about using the Automatic Bonus Progression system? Of course, if any of you have already bought items that don't exist under that system, I'd offer you a chance to get that money back (though, off the top of my head, I don't think any of your characters do have those items yet).
Btw, Clyde, I'll be bringing you in the morning, so basically as soon as we get through this RP scene.
Clyde has eaten everything already!
I'm kinda waiting to see what your characters will do/say when they discover the feast waiting for them.
On another note, though you will be getting some money for successfully completing the audition process, you're probably going to be significantly behind the wealthy by level table for a while (especially if you don't elect to try fighting the champions again). How would you guys feel about using the Automatic Bonus Progression system? Of course, if any of you have already bought items that don't exist under that system, I'd offer you a chance to get that money back (though, off the top of my head, I don't think any of your characters do have those items yet).
Ev's got a cloak of resistance.
How would automatic bonus progression work with my eidolon?
Good question. There's definitely some way that an eidolon could get the enhancements. Given the fact that eidolons and their summoners share a set of magic item slots, I think the intent is probably that each bonus from ABP goes either to the summoner or the eidolon, not both, but I'll have to look into threads on the subject.
Looks like most people are either allowing the PC to assign the bonuses to herself OR her companion (but not both), or they are giving the companion its own delayed progression. Specifically, the other option I've seen brought up in several places is for animal companions to receive ABP based on their "level" equalling their HD-2.
Since Eidolons don't start with 2HD the way animal companions do, I'd probably make this HD-1, but that still means that the eidolon wouldn't start receiving ABP until the summoner reaches level 5, and would top out (summoner level 20) at ABP equivalent to a 14th-level character. Though this would be equivalent to a greater character wealth (considering that the summoner still gets the full progression), I think it is low enough to not be game-breaking.
As a player, I would prefer the option where the summoner progresses normally and can assign a bonus to the eidolon (since most of the bonuses are more useful on an eidolon than on a typical summoner, and summoners usually end up spending more wealth on upgrading their eidolons than themselves), but I'd be willing to allow either system.
Hmm . . . if I go with the option where the summoner progresses normally and can assign bonuses to the eidolon, I'd have to pick either/or stuff like a resistance bonus to saves, instead of paying extra cash for a vest of resistance, which means one of us is utterly defenseless against spells. And I couldn't boost Evalee's CON at the same time as Sempsephiel's STR, which is problematic to say the very least.
Though this would be equivalent to a greater character wealth (considering that the summoner still gets the full progression), I think it is low enough to not be game-breaking.
I took Craft: Wondrous Item in large to afford enough magical bling to equip both summoner and eidolon, but with ABP stripping number-boosting items from the game it's a far less useful feat. :(
Whatever we decide on, unless it doubles the ABP completely, it'll be equivalent to lesser character wealth for this summoner.
Could I have Semsephiel increase like he was the PC, and have Evalee be the one that lags behind at her hitdice -2 (capping out at level 18)?
I have seen people allow stat-boosting items only for eidolons/companions.
Never seen a vest of resistance. It doesn't appear to be on d20pfsrd, which
is my primary reference. Can't find it on Archives of Nethys either. What source is it from?
You could make one with the magic item creation rules. Alternative-slot items normally cost double, so a magical tattoo should do the same job. I'm a fan of the Inscribe Magical Tattoo feat, which I could allow to function normally (though the bonuses wouldn't stack with an ABP enhancement to the same stat).
Sounds like it may be too complicated, though. Maybe I'll just have to look for ways to pass out some more wealth.
Looking over sheets, it looks like all of you have at least one item that wouldn't exist under ABP. Nevermind, then.
Clyde, go ahead and outfit your character with gear as a level 4 character. For the rest of you, I've thought of another way to increase your character wealth.
Haven't heard anything from Erin in a while; I'm in another game with them and they haven't posted anything in ~a week. Nothing posted in other games, or on the forum either.
Worried. :(
Hello I exist! Life obligations have just been pretty crazy the last couple weeks and I haven't been able to keep up regular posting. I'll get something up when I can, but expect the poor responsiveness to continue for another week or so.
No problem. I understand that life happens, it's just nice to know when enough of it is happening at once to keep someone out of the game for extended periods, so that I can work around it rather than being left to wonder :)
Waiting for Erin before we get started.
Btw, I hope this ends up being as fun as I imagined. I got the idea from another PBP I was in. The game was short-lived because the GM had to drop out, but the premise was that an AI had taken over and trapped the PCs in what basically amounted to a holodeck game. This meant that all of our characters were gamers from a scifi setting who roleplayed characters in a medieval fantasy setting. I found this meta-roleplaying aspect really fun.
I've also never run a game that didn't eventually have a session that involved the characters going to a tavern and playing some kind of game, so I thought it might be fun to build an RPG into the RPG. It's an experiment.
Btw, can't forget the mandatory "Yo dawg" joke.
Something like "Yo dawg, I heard you like roleplaying, so I put an RPG in your RPG so you can roleplay while you roleplay."
Go ahead, divide by zero. See if I care.
I don't know that Erin will be able to make this game within a game; I'm in another game with her and as far as I know she hasn't posted anything anywhere since the second of the month.
I think the other players have dropped out
Posting has been pretty sparse in all of my games for a couple of weeks, but this one was already at that level, and seems to have gone to nothing. I'll give it a little longer, but I'm starting to think it's time to call this one.