I suppose I could ambush the ambushers after returning from scouting?
Okay. Starting to feel a bit up and running again, GM, how would you like me to enter?
You've been scouting ahead. There's not much to see - although you've come across one disturbing sight, a small, outlying farm which has been put to the torch, fairly recently, it seems. You also saw smallfolk, halflings or gnomes or something, riding wolves, far off in the distance once or twice. They kept the sun behind them, and you've never seen more than their outline, but at each occasion you saw them they rode off soon after. You've decided to head back to the others, as they will soon be riding into town, but as you moved to intercept where you think they'd be on the road by now, you came across a forboding sight.
There's six people there, but with room in the bedrolls for something like eight more, or so. Before you can decide what to do, you hear the sounds of battle from up the little trail you had been following, which intercepts the forrest road just ahead.
The hobgoblins react quickly, grabbing swords, shields, and hurredly strapping on their helmets, before setting off towards the battle in a brisk run.
You circle around them, and sneak closer to the battlefield covered by a thicket of trees and undergrowth, to investigate what's going on. You arrive at much the same time as the hobgoblin reinforcements, and spot your teammates in a battle for their lives. They seem hard pressed, but mostly winning.
Roll stealth and initiative; I'll place your token on the map as your turn begins.
Hey. Sorry about taking so long. My mother was in the hospital for a few days. It was nothing serious, but it took more of a toll on me than I thought it would have. Couldn't quite muster the energy to post, to be honest. I'm ready to go now.
Erhm. Whoops. Wasn't trying to straight up kill you there, honest.
Whoops, I messed up the dice-roller. The numbers currently in the thread are the correct ones - I ended up using the intimidate roll for confirmation roll, because of the way the baords handles editing dice rolls.
It is correct now, though.
Are you counting in the effects of the hobgoblin woman being prone? She should be -4 to attack with the glaive and can't take a 5 foot step, she can only crawl 5 ft as a move action that provokes?
No, you're right, forgot about that. She'll take a move action to stand first, provoking an Attack of Opportunity from Johannes, with the -4 AC against the attack, of course.
There we go. Now Kyras is on the map too.
Counters and counter-counters...
Edit: The AoO is a miss, but damn, you're hard to get away from.
Hmm. I think you should be at 20 hp, right? She dealt 13 damage with the hit, and rolled a 19 to confirm, after DR that makes 10 damage.
Hey. Sorry about taking so long. My mother was in the hospital for a few days. It was nothing serious, but it took more of a toll on me than I thought it would have. Couldn't quite muster the energy to post, to be honest. I'm ready to go now.
I am happy it was nothing serious.
Counters and counter-counters...
Edit: The AoO is a miss, but damn, you're hard to get away from.
:( for the miss, but that is the idea of the character. There are better builds for damage, but this one is made to tie up the enemies and be as annoying as possible for them.
Even the ling steel buckler can be fun if they roll a 1 on the attack with metal weapon. The attacker need to make a save or break his weapon.
Gorum armor let me grow spikes that deal (at 5th level) 2 point of damage for each natural weapon attack that hit me (and that can make grapplers very unhappy).
DR and fast haling to better last through a battle.
Solo tactics and Lastwall Phalanx to get a AC and saves bonus (and that will make Inara summoned creatures wonderful buddies).
We will see if it stay up to expectation, but so far it is fun.
Hmm. I think you should be at 20 hp, right? She dealt 13 damage with the hit, and rolled a 19 to confirm, after DR that makes 10 damage.
I am not used to AC 26 without any spell. :P
I have seen the 19 for confirmation and taken it as a successful hit.
Much better.
It change a bit my next move.
also, I have goblin as a language, would that be the same speech as the hobgoblins?
I'm really sorry about your mom. :( I'm glad it's nothing serious.
Pelious, I am grateful for the healing, but are you sure it is a wise move? AFAIK you will heal the invisible cleric too, as you must target the people you want to exclude. And there is a lot of dying enemies in range while you would can exclude only 4 of them.
I counted them as dead, with the exception of the glaive and the hound. Hope I'm not too wrong with it. About the cleric, well, me and Antonius were in bad shape, and the balance is positive to our side.
Plus, perhaps the cleric moved out of range after the last painful wave. At least that is wall I'll try to do while invisible, avoid the damned pain-channeler. :/
Let's see how it goes, first time with channeling for me. :)
I am happy it was nothing serious.
I'm really sorry about your mom. :( I'm glad it's nothing serious.
Thank you :)
also, I have goblin as a language, would that be the same speech as the hobgoblins?
Yes, yes it would be. I was actually hoping to have someone who could understand them, will make things easier.
By the way, RE pinpointing invisible creatures who're making noise:
It's not covered in the rules, for some reason, which is strange. It's of course possible, but I'd also say it's pretty difficult. Personal anecdote time: I once stood in a field. Somewhere close was a grasshopper making that loud, continous chirping sound that grasshoppers make; I was trying to locate the thing by sound.
Took me a solid minute to be sure of the right smaller area so I could start going about looking for the thing with my eyes.
Homebrew time:
What I take away from this is that it should probably be dc 20 to locate an invisible creature not careful about what kind of noise it makes, and take a standard action. Now, there's an obvious problem with that, so I'll also say that you keep track of any movement the invisible creature makes until the start of your next turn.
The normal range modifiers, (-1 to perception per 10ft between you and what you're trying to percept) which we usually just ignore, applies here.
By the way Johannes, just roll the extra damage when you roll critical damage. The reason the glaive-warrior rolled 2 extra d10s is that glaives have a *3 crit multiplier.
I posted this to the Rules-questions forum, but have yet to recieve a reply, so I'll just post it here. In your opinion, what happens if you Channel Smite and has taken a Variant Channeling feature?
Pretty sure invisibility already covers pinpointing squares.
A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check. The observer gains a hunch that “something's there” but can't see it or target it accurately with an attack. It's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check. Even once a character has pinpointed the square that contains an invisible creature, the creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance). There are a number of modifiers that can be applied to this DC if the invisible creature is moving or engaged in a noisy activity.
DC is lowered by 20 if the creature in question is speaking or in combat.
----------------
Variant channeling still functions like normal channeling in that "heal" is done via positive energy and "harm" is done via negative energy.
A variant channeling either modifies positive channeled energy when used to heal or modifies negative energy when used to harm. When using positive energy to heal, affected creatures gain only half the normal amount of healing but also receive a specific beneficial effect. When channeling negative energy to harm, affected creatures take only half the normal damage but take an additional penalty or harmful effect; a successful saving throw negates the additional penalty or effect but does not reduce the damage any further. Creatures that would normally ignore the effect of a particular channel (such as undead with respect to a positive energy channel used to heal) ignore the variant effect of that channel.
So if you were to use channel smite, you only get to deal damage regardless of the additional effects your variant channel has, with the exception of enhanced damage.
i.e. air sky wind, if used to harm would, not add in the channel penalty to ranged attacks when used with channel smite, because this is not additional damage as described under the channel smite feat.
However, if a nature domain were used to harm an animal or fey, they would benefit fully from the enhanced damage of their variant channeling, since it adds additional damage with regards to the channel smite feat.
Well. That sucks.
Regarding detecting invisible creatures, it seems you get 1 reactive check, and all further checks are move actions. You'd need to re-make them each round as it moves about to keep track, it seems.
Edit: Actually, I'd missed this:
Feats and abilities that modify or present alternative uses for channeled energy (such as Command Undead and Turn Undead) work normally with these variant channeling abilities.
That seems to imply... Something. Anyway, in either case that's not what's going to happen.
Feats and abilities that modify or present alternative uses for channeled energy (such as Command Undead and Turn Undead) work normally with these variant channeling abilities.That seems to imply... Something. Anyway, in either case that's not what's going to happen.
Correct, and in the case of Channel Smite you only benefit from the additional damage of channel energy due to the text of the feat.
Did 7 provoke at all as he moved around me?
Did 7 provoke at all as he moved around me?
No.
Kyras, I don't think you can catch both of them in the blast.
I went and moved you, and drew the relevant 20ft cones on the map, and I don't really see how you could cover both of them.
Well. That sucks.
Regarding detecting invisible creatures, it seems you get 1 reactive check, and all further checks are move actions. You'd need to re-make them each round as it moves about to keep track, it seems.
Action: Most Perception checks are reactive, made in response to observable stimulus. Intentionally searching for stimulus is a move action.
That mean that every time the creature generate an "observable stimulus" everyone in rage of it get a reactive perception check.
Moving and casting a spell or speaking is a "observable stimulus" (perceptible stimulus, actually).
What are the appropriate modifiers vary, a possible interpretation
Base: Hear the sound of battle DC –10 (spellcasting require a strong voice)
+ DC 20 for being invisible
+20 for pinpointing
+ distance modifiers
That give a DC of 30+
Technically we should have rolled perception when the cleric was acting, not during our turn.
Searching for him during our turn would be a move action (as specified in the above quote).
Well, I can't quite agree to that. You don't get to make a reactive perception check against stealth every turn, even though they move about and take actions when stealthed, for example.
By the way, in case you didn't look it up, the shaken condition lasts 3 rounds total in this case.
1rd for beating the dc(18, in your case), +2rds for beating the dc by ten.
Edit: Not sure if you can flank with either. Inara is holding a shortbow at the moment, so that shouldn't treathen, and Pelius... does he have a weapon out? I'll go check.
I looked it and noticed it would last 3 rounds. Both Inara and Pelius will act before me. I suspect neither will be adjacent to the cleric when my turn will come up.
I applied the -2 from shaken and the +2 from the bane ability.
The flank modifier is outside the die roll bracket as a possible modifier. I doubt it will make any difference.
- * -
Stealth and perception.
Well, I can't quite agree to that. You don't get to make a reactive perception check against stealth every turn, even though they move about and take actions when stealthed, for example.
Stealth and perception are complicated, and unifying vision and hearing hadn't helped with that, but:
Breaking Stealth: When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment. Your Stealth immediately ends after you make and attack roll, whether or not the attack is successful (except when sniping as noted below).
So yes, you get an attempt to notice someone using stealth every time he moves.
Couple of notes I want to add here...
1. For simplicities sake, it should be assumed that those making Perception checks get to do so at the most favorable point during the movement of a character using Stealth, to avoid making checks every time the condition changes. Technically, I think you would get a check whenever the conditions change, but that might make things overly complicated during play.
2. Creatures are denied their Dexterity bonus to AC "if they cannot react to a blow" (CR pg 179 under AC). It was our intent that if you are unaware of a threat, you cannot react to a blow. I think we probably should have spelled this out a wee bit clearer, but space in the Stealth description was extraordinarily tight and ever word was at a premium. That said, I think these changes clear up the situation immensely (compared to where they were.. which was nebulous at best).
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
And that reiterate that you get a check every time the guy hiding moves. Invisibility simply add a large bonus to the guy hiding and the ability to hide even if in open ground.
As the check is made when the hiding character move, not during the spotter turn, it is clearly a reactive action.
The trick to avoid an excessive number of die rolls is to assume that until something happens people are taking 10 with the perception check, possibly with modifiers for being distracted.
Speaking or spellcasting break stealth, but you still need to pinpoint the guy, you only know he is somewhere.
That said, your game, your rules. I can live with 1 free perception check for encounter.
Well, I can't quite agree to that. You don't get to make a reactive perception check against stealth every turn, even though they move about and take actions when stealthed, for example.
Only partially true, really. Stealth has some very strict qualifiers. If they succeed their check they can move about, sure, but they have to end their movement in concealment or in cover. If they attack, stealth breaks immediately. If they snipe, they have to reroll their stealth which means everyone else gets to make new perception checks.
Same thing with invisibility. Everytime they do something that could break stealth everyone gets a perception check to pinpoint.
The stealth rules are more crap than I thought, then. That makes it virtually impossible to sneak up on someone, if you get to make a perception check for every 30ft.
I'll have to think on that. Maybe even brew up some houserules. I guess I've always run with the houserule that you make 1 check to notice someone, and unless you succeed, they can pretty much do whatever they want until they attack and not be noticed, as long as they keep to hard cover and/or concealment.
Currently we'll go with you getting to make a DC 30 perception check each round to pinpoint invisible creatures, (roll it on your turn, but technically it's reactive) and can make another one with a move action.
Also, might as well try the stealth rules as written.
Apologies, it is apparently a 30ft cone. Not sure if that makes a large difference. But seems just a mistake on my part due to not using cones before.
Aren't these the stats for a shotgun?
Shotgun, double-barreled: 7,000 gp/1d6/1d8/×2/20 ft./1–2/2/15 lbs./B and P/scatter. They're the ones on the SRD, at least.
That'd give it a 20ft cone. The range would increase when you used the Steady Aim deed, but not otherwise. The cone size does make a difference, as a 30ft (and higher) forward pointing cone is two squares wide at the beginning, whereas smaller cones are only one square big at the starting point.
Still, even a 30ft cone would still only be able to tag one of them.
It can fire both pellets and normal bullets (slugs) when firirng pellets it is 30ft cone. When slugs it is a 20ft range.
This advanced version of the blunderbuss shoots in a 30-foot cone when firing pellets, and has a 20-foot range increment when firing a bullet (often called a slug).
A shotgun uses metal cartridges (loaded with either a bullet or pellets) as ammunition.
So I assume the same applies to all 'shotgun' variants Right?
The stealth rules are more crap than I thought, then. That makes it virtually impossible to sneak up on someone, if you get to make a perception check for every 30ft.
I'll have to think on that. Maybe even brew up some houserules. I guess I've always run with the houserule that you make 1 check to notice someone, and unless you succeed, they can pretty much do whatever they want until they attack and not be noticed, as long as they keep to hard cover and/or concealment.
Currently we'll go with you getting to make a DC 30 perception check each round to pinpoint invisible creatures, (roll it on your turn, but technically it's reactive) and can make another one with a move action.
Also, might as well try the stealth rules as written.
There is always the distance modifier. And the conditional modifiers.
But yes, stealth is easy if you build for it, hard otherwise.But it work that way because most players characters maximize perception. And in a world like Golarion it is a wise move.
Would you like me to redo my action post? I had all this down but completely forgot it last week :P I'll do a little extra reading so I don't have this come up again. I also completely forgot that shotguns for whatever reason have a capacity of 1 or 2 for double barreled :/. I want my pump action shotgun! Ha-ha.
Sure. Just state which one you'll be attacking and reroll the attack.
Wow, a long discusion. Rule and manage invisibility as you see fair, while both sides are under the same rules, I don't see the problem.
About channeling I know I abused a lot in this combat, but is just the novelty of having it(I think); I'll play Pelius mainly as a support with the option to make some damage when crowded by enemies.
Not planning on using weapons if possible, starting at level five helped with that. (So no smite)
And not planning to mess with undead minds, just raw damage or healing.
In case it was unclear: my trip attempt was using a kick as my offhand weapon for TWF and the Estoc was my main hand. Just so there isn't any confusion as to how I was tripping, stabbing, and still getting two attacks from TWF.
Do we want to commit to taking the cleric alive? I can hammer him with the staggered condition and trips.
If you want to take him alive, I think Pelius has stabilize. Just give him a good whack without power attacking and he might be fine.
And speak with dead!! XD
But yes, I'll try and cast hold person on him too.
Edit: Not sure if you can flank with either. Inara is holding a shortbow at the moment, so that shouldn't treathen, and Pelius... does he have a weapon out? I'll go check.
If the constrictor snake's still alive you could flank with him next turn. I think it's a safe assumption that the grapple didn't work.
The snake slithers across the forest floor, and squeezes the life out of the hobgoblin.
*headdesk*
The snake slithers across the forest floor, and squeezes the life out of the hobgoblin.*headdesk*
Mechanically, it was a bite attack. Fluffwise, it makes sense for it to kill the thing by constricting, what with it being a constrictor snake and all.
Yeah I was torn between the bite and just going for the grapple, but I was worried the AOO would just kill the snake. Oh well.
Also what would the additional 1d6 be coming from? JW.
Also what would the additional 1d6 be coming from? JW.
Stance. Basically gives them Improved Shield Bash and +1d6 damage with shield bash attacks.
They're Warder 1's, but have been dying too quickly to really show that off.
Ooo nifty. Perhaps my ability will save johannes from that nasty crit hehe. I only have one use per day so maybe should a saved it, but I wanted to try it out ha-ha.
Pelious was in danger and saved by you, Johannes would have laughed at a "paltry" 23 for the confirmation roll.
Unless I am mistaken, we are starting the 6th round and only Antonius has acted in it.
Situation AFAIK:
1: Inara
2 Pelius
3 Johannes
4 Antonius - Acted
5: Kyras
6: Cleric.
Pelious was in danger and saved by you, Johannes would have laughed at a "paltry" 23 for the confirmation roll.
Unless I am mistaken, we are starting the 6th round and only Antonius has acted in it.
Situation AFAIK:
1: Inara
2 Pelius
3 Johannes
4 Antonius - Acted
5: Kyras
6: Cleric.
Not quite right: Antonius acted last round. At this moment, there's no enemies between the two player initiative counts ( Inara + Pelius + Johannes & Kyras + Antonius), so they have been collapsed into a single big one. Right now you're all up, and Kyras has just now acted. The reason Antonius seems to have acted once more than everyone else is that he recieved an action in the surprise round.