The Raven Calls for the Carrion

Game Master wanderer82

Multi trap finders could speed up the search though, large rooms each takes a side, get it done in half the time. =)

#1: I'm partial to maps if there's a lot of need for maneuvering and positioning. If you're not as concerned with setting up flanks or spellcasters accidentally catching allies in AoEs, then I'm fine with theater of the mind.

#2: Like most, I've never played with ABP, but I'm interested in it and like the potential for having more interesting items. So I'm willing to give it a try.

Yeah, I'm built to be a trapfinder too. If the group feels that a vanilla bard would be more helpful to the group, I could switch over to that. Though I still don't plan to be a singing-dancing type bard. Probably Perform (comedy) or something like that.

I love the archaeologist bard, but I have to admit they're rather selfish.

Some PC adjustment will certainly occur. I have some notes for each of you that you will benefit from. As to the trapfinding question, Alana was drafted to be a skill monkey, so I would prefer to see her stay in that role. I looked at Arthorius having trapfinding as more of a secondary perk (assuming he wanted the anti-undead bombs that go with the archetype), so if you want to drop that archetype and focus on Beastmorph that is fine with me.

#1: ok, we are in agreement, it will be map based except for the occasional quick melee.

#2: it seems like people are up for ABP. I had previously developed a similar system and will likely adjust ABP slightly. I am a fan of fun magical items, so being able to remove the 'necessary items' helps. Also, I will be going off the reservation on gear from the AP, don't you worry.

More questions to come shortly.

UPDATE I just created and opened the Gameplay thread. Please post in the thread, then delete it. This will add you to the active characters/players lists, yet not clutter up the gameplay thread with posts that do not contain content.

I do have a question for my animal Companion, Nicodemus. He is actually gaining familiar intelligence (currently 6) and will eventually get my skill ranks and is able speak with me (constant speak with animals of his type).

Do you want to run him as a GM-NPC, just include his things when I move/post for Daviana, or want me to make an alias for him so I can run him more intelligently as he levels as his own character, etc? Or some combination of the 3 when situationally appropriate.

Going on my initiative or his own, or combo of the two depending location/scene? In my table games I usually have them on owner's initiative when they are in the same room/scene, but will do separate when they are off exploring or separated from party.

I know everyone has their preference on AC/Familiars/Cohorts so thought it best to ask ahead of time. I can adjust to any method for him to your preference.

Some PC adjustment will certainly occur. I have some notes for each of you that you will benefit from.

#1: ok, we are in agreement, it will be map based except for the occasional quick melee.

#2: it seems like people are up for ABP. I had previously developed a similar system and will likely adjust ABP slightly. I am a fan of fun magical items, so being able to remove the 'necessary items' helps. Also, I will be going off the reservation on gear from the AP, don't you worry.

Yep after hearing more about APB, It sounds good.

EDIT: Ah its in the pathfinder unchained book. I knew I'd read it but just hadn't remembered where from...

UPDATE I just created and opened the Gameplay thread. Please post in the thread, then delete it. This will add you to the active characters/players lists, yet not clutter up the gameplay thread with posts that do not contain content.

Thanks for this :)

@Daviana you control your AC under your Alias and at your Initiative (generally). When separated from you, you will still control him but at his own Initiative. That said, I will RP him periodically to start, and likely more as he gains higher levels of intelligence. At that point, we may make and Alias for him. We shall see.

#3: Group initiative. Rather than call for initiative then wait for everyone to post (sometimes loosing up to a day at the start of combat), at the point when we reach combat I would like to roll initiative for all characters (PCs/NPCs/monsters) at once. We will then take actions in phases (all PCs before any NPCs/monsters, next group of PCs, etc). Thoughts?

Group initiative is a bit of a mixed bag for me. On one hand, it helps streamline combat, since acting in order takes time in PbP. On the other hand, it can lead to weird situations: for instance, a wizard who would have a high initiative and use battlefield control at the beginning of the battle ends up acting last because they were away from the keyboard.
What I do in the game I'm running is to set up the initiative order, let players post as they want, then set the actions in order and narrate the results. This, of course, has the disadvantage of taking actions before things change, for example a PC attacking an enemy that has moved out of reach, or dropped dead.
But ultimately, I'm good with any solution.

#3: Sounds good. It's similar to what I do for my games. I roll initiative for all combatants and then take the average for the PCs and the average for the Npcs/Monsters to see who goes first. It works well and characters can act in the order that they post.

Group/block initiative seems to work best for pacing. All options have issues but that ones seems to flow best overall with posters all over different timezones.

Since there's six of us, group initiative seems best. I don't know yet if anyone has something dependent on going first (such as sneak attack) but I think that can be dealt with once we settle in.

Hmmm, so perhaps "group/block initiative" with a recap after each group placing things in order?

Hmmm, so perhaps "group/block initiative" with a recap after each group placing things in order?

Sounds good to me.

Yes, I agree with the last one as well. :)

About Arthorius: if I drop Cryptbreaker, although I lose the best vs. undead bombs and trapfinding, I'd be able to focus more on the mutagens, which is best for my long term "Hide and Jekyll" plans. I'll adjust the sheet and submit for approval. ;)

I enjoy the recaps! I know it puts more work on the GM, for sure, but it creates a nice flow to the combat. Plus, it helps having a definitive post so there's less confusion about what's happened.

My sheet is updated. GM, please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns. ;)

#4: Feat Taxes and How to Deal With Them Having earned my gaming stripes through years of 2nd edition as a teen, I have always enjoyed the customization granted by the feat system introduced with 3rd edition. Pathfinder upped it from 1 every 3 levels to 1 every 2, but still it feels restricted at times, most often because of feat taxes. These come in one of two forms: irrelevant feats requirements for decent feats, or feats that are all but required for classes to be effective.

Over time, I have played around with a few different options to combat this.

The first option (back in 3.5) was a rather lengthy list changing the prerequisites for many feats - this helped to some degree, releasing some of the "forced trees of progression", but then I had to field endless requests that one feat or another should be changed (always in a manner that benefited their current build. Side note, this, plus the previous development of my own more balanced classes, ultimately lead me to building an entire point-based classless system for d20 in the twilight hours of 3.5 edition... perhaps an update is in order at some point).

The second option (explored in Pathfinder) is to have a cluster of feats that everyone gets for free, along with the introduction of a single Trait. This theoretically allows players to develop more diverse characters, but is mainly focused on helping martial characters, as all of the free feats are combat related.

The third option is very simple and perhaps the most balanced, as every character benefits from it equally. Increase feat progression to 2 at 1st level, and 1 every level thereafter. Sound like a lot of feats? Perhaps, but it allows for some very flavorful characters, as well as allows for feat-intensive builds on otherwise feat-starved classes. I played a couple games with this after Monte Cook proposed it in his Book of Experimental Might back in '08 and '09 (3.5), but had not used it since until a recent TT game, that was very fun for all (and we saw a lot of situational and fluffy feats taken as well). The trait introduced in the second option is likewise available in the third option.

I would like to offer the Second or Third Option (with preference for the third).

#5: Shields
Given their massively significant role in historical warfare, shields come across as a rather underwhelming afterthought in most RPGs (Pathfinder included). Rather than a massive rebuild, I have been using a couple simple adjustments, listed below:
Buckler stays +1 AC
Light Shield increases to +2 AC
Heavy Shield increases to +3 AC
Improved Shield Bash - counts as two-weapon fighting when wielding a melee weapon in one hand and a shield in the other
* successive 'shield' feats - remove Dex 15 and Two-Weapon Fighting from prerequisites.

#1: Maps, an Addendum Can everyone please PM me an email address for sharing battle maps. We will be using Google Docs for maps, so a Gmail email address will grant you the most functionally.

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I THINK that is the last of my topics regarding game mechanics. I hope I have not discouraged anyone with these questions, I am just trying to create a game that everyone will get the most enjoyment out of. Please let me know your thoughts on topics #4 and #5.

#4 Speaking for myself, more than a feat tax I have a skill tax, since Dervish Dance requires me to have 2 ranks in Perform(dance) and without it I can't Finesse my scimitar.
I won't lie, the third option looks very succulent (even making Variant Multiclass actually viable) and I can see many ways we could benefit from that, like taking those teamwork feats that no one ever picks, or taking maneuver feats like Improved Trip without the need to have the build revolve around them. And I'd get to use my scimitar at level 2, which would otherwise be my "dead weight" level.
#5 I won't be using shields, so passing out on this one.

@Nasrin Given that you took Weapon Focus (Scimitar), you can forego the Perform skill and instead take Slashing Grace, which does the same thing, but substitutes Weapon Focus for Perform 2 ranks, and removes the religion association.

And yes, the third option opens up all the goodies you mentioned.

Well, the religious association would be with Sarenrae, so no problem on that side (I could even dip Cleric at some point).
Slashing Grace does not allow me to use a scimitar for finesse, since it would be considered a "one-handed piercing weapon", which only helps swashbucklers. Dervish Dance, instead, gives me Dex to hit too, so it's better.
I don't mind waiting a couple of levels to pick it up, but should you offer to houserule it, I wouldn't say no :)

I will say the more frequent feats of option #3 would be very handy for me. Most of the feats I was looking at were either more fluffy (Dhampir/Vampire progression line) or Teamwork related for my AC. Since my archtype lost the Hunter ability for bonus TW feats and sharing them with AC, for a non-combat skill sharing progression. That was going to leave very little combat feat room for Daviana herself.

Curious - Would AC also get a little feat love?

@Nasrin Hahaha, these knit-picky feat details are exactly why Option #1 occurred in my party back in the old 3.5 days. You are spending three feats to wield a Scimitar with Dex, yes, house rule it.

...Of course, back then I created a feat called "Finesse Strike", which required weapon finesse and a base attack of +3, and simply allowed you to add Dex to damage in place of Str for any weapon that qualified for Weapon Finesse...

Daviana Just PMed you, preemptively addressing some of your Archetype concerns. :D

*Daviana gives one of her rare canine filled smiles.*

ARMOR
As historical examples of both leather scale and leather lamellar have been found in northern and eastern Europe, I want to point out to everyone that Lamellar (leather) is an acceptable starting armor and costs 40 gp less than chain shirt.

#4 Considering I qualify for all those "free" feats already and can immediately make use of them, I'm extremely tempted to go with option two.

Option three is less "front loaded," and has more long-term benefits. I can live with either one. Since one of my two starting feats (being human) is Weapon Finesse, either option works to giving me another feat.

I understand if everyone prefers Option 3 and will be completely fine with it. And who knows? Maybe we really can get some use out of those Teamwork feats.

#5 That's fine. I'll only be using a buckler anyway, but it might help other players.

#4 Extra feats = Awesome... I like the third option.

#5 This sounds really good for my character as I was kind of planning to take the sword and board ranger Combat Style.

#1 PM sent. Can I suggest Google slides for Maps. I was using google drawings to share Maps until recently when one of my players showed me google slides. It's basically an updated google drawings, and has an app for smartphones, meaning you can edit the maps from a smart phone or tablet. (Of course this is a moot point if you don't plan for us to move our own tokens.)
Check out this link for an example of google slides

Armor : Noted, I will make the switch to Lamellar Leather.

#4 Extra Feats: my build is absolutely feat intensive and alchemists are feat starving already - especially ones with martial capabilities. With that said, I wouldn't mind the game even if we were keeping it standard Pathfinder. We can all make it work and that might be part of the challenge. Now, between the options, I think option #2 benefits me immensely, but option #3 allows for more diverse characters and more flavor with some rare-to-see-far-on-the-prereq-chain feats.

#5 Interesting approach! If we had anyone focusing in shields on this game, I'd say it makes them veeery strong. Let me tell you, from someone who loves martial builds with shields and weapons like the Madu, as well as the Captain America archetype for Brawlers, the rule would be fantastic if I wasn't playing someone that probably won't use shields :) I'm fine with it, of course.

About the armor: considering the +3 limitation to Dex on the Lamellar, I'll stick with the Chain Shirt :)

Hope everyone has had a great weekend. Generally I am a weekend poster, so I apologize for the perceived absence this weekend. I hope my many PMs over the last two days addressed everyone's various questions. Now that those are settled, let's recap the concensus on each topic:

#1 We will predominantly use battle maps, shared through Google Drives, to adjudicate combat. Occasionally, small, quick skirmished may, however, be resolved in theatre of the mind.

#2 We will be using the alternate magic/wealth system of Automatic Bonus Progression, with some minor tweaks along the way.

#3 I will roll initiative en masse for both the party and any NPCs/monsters at the start of each combat. Actions will be posted in "grouped" segments, and I will wrap up each segment with a consolidating post.

#4 We will be playing with Option #3, so everyone has an additional feat to select for their starting character.

#5 We will be using the adjusted shield stats I posted above.

All house rules I will add to the campaign page for easy review.

For the map, I have played with Google Slides a touch, and I will likely be able to use one ongoing file. As such, once established, I will have this linked at the top of the Ggameplay thread.

Story will launch today. Please add your newly gained feat, and mention what it is here in the Discussion thread.

@Alana, please send me a PM with an email address (preferably gmail), so I can share the mapping file.

Excellent! I picked up Combat Reflexes as extra feat (Kensai get a free Weapon Focus at 1st level, that's why I have four).

On a side note, should you find yourself needing to enlarge maps that would otherwise be too blurry, I recommend this site. Despite the name, it works fine with maps.

I will take Fencing Grace. Lingering Performance is nice, but Fencing Grace will give me a nice immediate damage boost. LP next level, for sure!

I chose Dodge. Every little bit of AC helps with d6 HD.

Yes, yes it does.

I believe I will take Cleave, unless someone has a better suggestion?

So many choices. This wasn't easy.
Going with Evolved Companion -> Magic Attacks.

I believe I will take Cleave, unless someone has a better suggestion?

If you're sword and board, how about shield focus? +1 to AC isn't a bad thing, (as we've established).

Actually I was tossing up between Dodge and Cleave. I can pick up Shield Focus as one of my Combat Style feats at level two.

Though maybe I should take it now, and use a light shield keeping my AC at 20 and take improved shield bash at level two?

Is a light shield considered a light weapon for the purposes of two weapon fighting?

Well, it's a light weapon, so it should. ;)

If I recall correctly, it is.

You will need improved shield bash if you want to keep the AC when you do use as weapon though.

Ah it's right there in the weapon chart... how embarrassing. I haven't played a melee character in pathfinder for a while and I've never tried shield bashing before...

Ok instead of Cleave I'll take Dodge and swap my heavy wooden shield for a light spiked metal shield. Next level I'll take Improved Shield Bash. I'll updat my character sheet when I get home.

Mechanically I'd love to get Fey Foundling, but thematically I think Glimpse Beyond is something different and interesting. Assuming, of course, that I have a chance to complete it (according to my own plans and the character's development ideas, I believe it'd happen naturally on the next 8 levels). So... Thoughts? :) GM, please feel free to wager here, especially if you feel the feat(s) do(es)n't fit.

@Arthorius

Hmm, Fey Foundling, so you'd be a Fey Dhampir? Do you have more backstory you want to tie into this? Or were you looking for an undead version of it (heal 2 additional HP from inflict wounds, take +1 damage from silver weapons).

As for Glimpse Beyond, your written background would qualify as the "Raised Among the Dead" background.

About Fey Foundling, Fluff wise I thought about using the fact he wasn't conceived by mating, and pretend the vetala used something fey on his experiments. I don't know - I feel like it's great mechanically, to save my sorry hard to heal carcass, but the other one makes more sense thematically and has quite the flavor but is fairly weak mechanically until I complete it (at which point becoming nice to have).

I feel like it's great mechanically, to save my sorry hard to heal carcass

Undead carcasses unite! *bribes Ishara for Inflict Light Wounds*

Used a Fae creature in their experiments? You notice the GM's evil grin from behind his screen.

I like the idea. Gives me further backstory to play with, and adds a complicating factor to your blood line, which may be why you have such a difficult time purifying your blood and instead ultimately end up in your prestige class. Also presents a good argument for our Alignment discussion regarding your alternate persona.

Very well... Fey foundling it is, then :) I'll make the mutagen/mutate effects more fey-like. It actually makes sense with the whole First World thing too... I'll do short updates to my backstory to support it and should have it all done tonight.

@Daviana: Life Dominant Soul ftw!

@Daviana: Life Dominant Soul ftw!

Pfft! That's the easy way out.

Arthorius is ready.

I just shared with each of you access to the Google Slides file I will be sharing battle maps in. For convenience, I have also placed the link at the top of this page. Everyone please access the map and move your character's avatar to a different location.

Dragomir heads to the bar to get a round of drinks.

" A toast, to Professor Lorrimor, may he find peace in the afterlife. "

Moved on the map.

I like maps I can pull up on my phone.

"To the Professor"