The Pathfinder Pits

Game Master Jehova

Rawr! That was fun. Bad series of rolls for you in conjunction with a good series for me, there, Johnny.

Like I said in the Pit thread, that opening salvo from you was seriously eye-opening.

Feels good to have Rolg back in play!

I think its so that round 1 a mounted cavalier cant charge you with a lance for double damage or immediately smashing wizards by putting them in melee round 1. Personally I think the surprise round is good in theory, but it kind of nerfs a melee character unless they dip for about 4 lvls into the rogue so they can get a full round in the surprise round. Oh, unless they are a monk with deflect arrow. Gets even funnier with snatch arrow as you could just launch the arrow right back at them.

Why do you think it nerfs the melee character?

I don't feel it nerf's melee characters personally. It just gives ranged character the advantage if the melee character loses initiative.

Also, good attacks there Johnny. I reckon you nearly had him. :p

I actually haven't quite grasped the concept of the surprise round here in the pits yet, seems it would be a little too taxing for those that lose initiative and are immediately caught flat footed, even more taxing for those melee that need to close the distance.

Wouldn't it be more taxing for those who lose intiative if they were to eat a full-round action instead (charge, full attack w/ bows later on when they become available, etc.)? If the opponent beats you in Initiative, you'd be flat-footed whether it's a surprise round or a normal one.

Grixus wrote:

I think its so that round 1 a mounted cavalier cant charge you with a lance for double damage or immediately smashing wizards by putting them in melee round 1. Personally I think the surprise round is good in theory, but it kind of nerfs a melee character unless they dip for about 4 lvls into the rogue so they can get a full round in the surprise round. Oh, unless they are a monk with deflect arrow. Gets even funnier with snatch arrow as you could just launch the arrow right back at them.

Why do you think it nerfs the melee character?

I guess nerf is a harsh word, but as most decent spells can be fired off as a standard action and there are feats that allow an archer to fire 2 shots at once and later fire full damage on a single arrow, wizards get a bit of a bonus because of that, but rangers get the real advantage. Granted, if a fighter just goes sword and shield, they can take feats to counter shots every round, but I think its a tad early to pull that off (unless you are a monk or unarmed fighter and snatch arrows).

A few things quick, while I have time:

I think that the play-testing made as close as possible of a fair arena. It really is the luck of the draw in terms of who you face and dice rolls. I'll do better against certain characters and worse against others--I agree that it sucks to lose your first match in the surprise round, but with a growing pool of characters it should make for more good matches than bad, IMO.

Keep in mind, Vironus, that after each randomized fight you can challenge someone. If you want to face a melee combatant, challenge them for round 2.

Gnasher, are we gonna throw down today? Let's do this!

(For the record--Rolg is pretty much my hero. ;-) )

Yah, I don't know of an ability in PF that allows multiple shots on a standard action, so I'm only aware that any archer could fire one shot in the surprise round. I guess the rogue archetype in question would be the only way.

I think the surprise round rule is a good one. It allows for some quick reaction type actions without allowing the exact type of full-around archer explosion damage you're arguing against.

(For the record--Rolg is pretty much my hero. ;-) )

Agreed. I have a serious dwarf-crush on him. :D

(and that's saying something.. i generally dislike dwarves)

Ah, really? I thought all fights were randomised?

If not, then I CHALLENGE BRUNO!

Haha. :p

I think the first few fights will be me getting to grips with what I can and can't do with readied actions. Like if someone charges you with a reach weapon, if you keep within 5 feet of them, I don't think they can attack you, charge or normal attack, so it's things like that I'll have to test in my matches.

You may want to wait until his fight's over. Isn't he still trying to wing that flying halfling? :)

EDIT: Actually, he and Kailin (your two desired opponents) are both still in their fights.

Yep. :p

Well, tbh, I don't mind challenging anyone who wants to fight right now. Do these ones count for round 2, or is it only the fights that Jehova sets that will level you?

Here's who I'd like to fight...dare I say it:

Bruno
Kailin
YOU (Mr.Rolg)
Basha (if he doesn't have an opponent as I know he wants to play.

Ready when anyone is. :p

The rules on the Campaign tab indicate that challenge matches do, in fact, count towards Reputation gains/losses. It also says, though, that challenge matches must be "broken up" with regular, randomized matches (I'm assuming that means you can only do one official Challenge match before you need to go into a randomized official match again).

See if BASHA wants in, as he didn't get to participate in this last round of bouts.

Yea, I guess if you have say two challenges in a row, then a randomised match, it would still probably be fine.

I'm expecting to lose a lot until I know the ins and outs of readied action possibilities btw.

You seem to know a heck of a lot of rules based around it. I guess you've done your research. :p

It read to me like you could only do one Challenge match (that would count for Rep purposes) before you'd need to get into another official randomized match. Or, if you don't care about Rep, you could have as many Challenges in a row as you like... they just would have no mechanical benefit on Arena Standings.

Ah okay, well I guess we should wait for official ruling on that, but regardless, if it comes to it, we can arrange that ourselves.

Just assign people to a number and roll some dice to see who you face. I'd have to count how many of us are actually playing now though, but I think there's about 17, as Basha seems to be the only one with no fight or opponent. Get it to 20 and just roll a d20 to see who you face. That works.

Ah, really? I thought all fights were randomised?

If not, then I CHALLENGE BRUNO!

Haha. :p

I think the first few fights will be me getting to grips with what I can and can't do with readied actions. Like if someone charges you with a reach weapon, if you keep within 5 feet of them, I don't think they can attack you, charge or normal attack, so it's things like that I'll have to test in my matches.

Bruno challenges the over-confident melee-man to stand still!

Speaking as the one fighting the flier, I wanted to throw in my two coppers.

Bruno's issue with the flying halfling could have been solved by a little forethought on my part. I honestly didn't expect a flier this early. All I need is a bow and most of my problems would be solved. You can guarantee an equipment shift as soon as he dies. Until then I'll do my best to get her in lance range. :P
I'm kinda in your boat, Vironus, except I'm dying by a thousand cuts. I give mad props to the halfling. Well done on making such a surprising build at lvl 3.

Haha, yea. You're a dangerous adversary which is why I want to fight you and hopefully sometime beat you. :p

Call me silly but I still won't be buying a bow and arrow. I plan to use a grappling hook instead. Still, it'll be pretty sketchy.

Haha, yea. You're a dangerous adversary which is why I want to fight you and hopefully sometime beat you. :p

Call me silly but I still won't be buying a bow and arrow. I plan to use a grappling hook instead. Still, it'll be pretty sketchy.

I like your style. :)

I got my official win post! Woot!

I updated my Rep and win/loss records in Rolg's entry under my gladiator alias. :)

Haha.

I don't know how it works in combat mind. Ranged touch attack perhaps? -2 for each range increment past the first, -4 for soft cover (if aimed at rider), possibly -4 for non-proficiency.

That's a lot of penalties, but if successful, things would start to get epic. :p

I don't have throw anything if that's necessary for this, but I have an ongoing conversation on the subject in rules/questions, as I feel that personally throwing a grappling hook doesn't need proficiency to throw it in combat, as it's meant for being thrown and attached to things.

I guess Jehova's ruling will be the ultimate decision, haha.

What is a "win post"? :D

The way I've been seeing the surprise round work so far I'm actually fairly happy with. I don't think there is any way to further restrict the number of actions someone can take before their opponent can act, and allowing initiative to matter even more than it does seems like a bad idea. There are plenty of different possibilities for the surprise round (and those immediately following it), and so far we've seen hugely diverse tactics (which allows for some fun mind games against people who know your playstyle). Some characters have gone invisible, some have buffed, some have jumped onto a mount (and possibly shot an arrow at the same time), some have attacked instantly, some have chugged a potion, some have cast an attack spell.

What would make me feel we have an issue is an over-centralization of tactics, where everyone needs to use the same playstyle to be viable, but so far I haven't noticed this.

We're still early in the life of the pits, so let's see how this all pans out.

@ Trihedron, it's one o' them posts I where I yell stuff like VICTORY TRIHEDRON. Go update your profile, you winner you.

I recieved your message Vironus.

Are we supposed to set up fights ourselves? If so let's go. I'll challenge everybody who steps forward.

What is a "win post"? :D

When Master of the Pits comes in and says, "Combat over" to officially close out the fight. It basically just makes the win official.

If Jehova/Master of the Pits doesn't do it for us, then I think we do, so if you'd like to, go ahead. :)

I'm now expecting to lose many matches before I start to win, so let's see what happens. :p

In regards to the challenge fight, technically BASHA should have a round of randomized fighting under his belt beforehand, but since he was on board and simply couldn't fit, I'll make an exception (though he will not be able to have a second challenge match until after his first randomization).

I will set up the challenge match in the recently vacated Pit Three. See you there.

Thanks Jehova!

May the best murderer win. :)

Thanks Jehova!

May the best murderer win. :)

Vironus, dunno if you saw it in our pit, but would you mind rolling a fort save vs my CDG? Isn't officially over yet.

It is, have a look at my roll. :p

Only a natural 20 could save that, and you had 10 rounds of attempts, so I figured there was no point rolling. Have done anyway.

Be sure to update your win on you character profile! :)

It is, have a look at my roll. :p

Only a natural 20 could save that, and you had 10 rounds of attempts, so I figured there was no point rolling. Have done anyway.

Be sure to update your win on you character profile! :)

Thanks, and good luck to you on your next match. With a name like Basha, I think he will probably give you the in-close fight you are looking for. ;)

Yep. I think he may be a Half-Ogre, judging by his description!

At least I may get one hit off!

Bruno's issue with the flying halfling could have been solved by a little forethought on my part. I honestly didn't expect a flier this early. All I need is a bow and most of my problems would be solved. You can guarantee an equipment shift as soon as he dies. Until then I'll do my best to get her in lance range. :P

This is pretty much exactly why Kailin has had a crossbow from day 1. Even if I never plan on using it (and I don't), if a situation arises where I might need to, I want it available :P

Yah, Rolg has had a stack of Chakram since match one. Never touched'em so far, but they're there.

I thought, surely, two is enough to get at least one good hit in. Maybe provoke a ride check. But no. The dice hate me today, apparently.

Lol. Did you just throw a pilum directly up into the air at your opponent? Better have that shield handy.

Choon loses to... gravity!

I want to catch it on the way back down. :D

And a crit does me in. Well done in exposing a gaping hole in my build, Liane. :)

Thanks, now I've got to set up new tactics to confuse my opponent for next round.
As I said, you were not so far from being able to hurt me, so when we meet again I'll have to surprise you... :)

I'm in a Summoner vs Summoner match that will either be decided by lucky dice rolls or attrition.

Haha, I got some good hits off on Basha, dealing 35 damage taking no damage, but then I took a double swing from his double weapon (I assume that's the weapon) and apparently didn't get through half of his life.

No idea how his life is so high, but well fought lol. No way can I survive 37 damage in one round, haha.

Rolg, you have some damage to deal to this guy. :p

I'm in a Summoner vs Summoner match that will either be decided by lucky dice rolls or attrition.

I think the odds are stacked in your favor. You definitely have more AC than either Kailin or Sunahl, though I'm not sure what your likelihood to actually hit them is. They certainly will have difficulty hitting you though, unless I figure something out (also, in the future, I think Kailin might just have some tanglefoot bags for a situation such as this :/ ).

Haha, I got some good hits off on Basha, dealing 35 damage taking no damage, but then I took a double swing from his double weapon (I assume that's the weapon) and apparently didn't get through half of his life.

No idea how his life is so high, but well fought lol. No way can I survive 37 damage in one round, haha.

Rolg, you have some damage to deal to this guy. :p

Actually you did 43 damage.

Basha, what weapon were you wielding? I think I know what you are, but am not really sure.

If you think you know then you know:)It's a great sword.
BTW I want to fight Rolg soon but I have to do a randomized match first.

Hmm, better than I thought. Not bad! :p

I think he's got like +5 Strength, but no idea on the Con and probably damage reduction of some sort, as I can't see him having much more than 41 life.

Could have an Amulet of False Life on top of that. :p

BASHA don't need no girly amulets

I've got another question regarding equipment.In the training bouts, some people have been using an aegis of recovery for example. I also suspect some others have been using charged rings.

Shall we consider all this items are consumable and count them towards the cost limit?

Hmmm... yah, if someone uses the Aegis's healing ability, o think that cost should go against their consumable limit.

If you think you know then you know:)It's a great sword.

BTW I want to fight Rolg soon but I have to do a randomized match first.

Lol. If my suspicions are true, I'm not sure Rolg wants to fight BASHA! He's a menace!

I wonder if anyone wants to fight Basha :D

Yeah.... I just realized I made a terrible choice for consumables. Oh well. Guess I won't have any for this round but there is always the next one.