The Fall of Fairhaven (Inactive)

Game Master Jubal Breakbottle

I'm going camping until Sunday, so heal up and figure out how you will deal with traveling in a tunnel filled with flammable gas.

cheers

PS Honestly sorry about Arend. Doesn't he get a separate save?

Nah, I can summon him back. He's fine. He just disappears if I go to sleep/unconscious. I guess it's up to you whether he got burnt before I went down, or not. I can roll a save for him if you want.

Jubal, just checking if you're waiting for anything from us?

No, needed a functioning computer. Post incoming soon.

Still loving the old school maps...though something tells me there'll be a secret door in the next room. ;-)

Maybe. You would need to find it.

Question: If a large swarm is composed by a collection of medium swarms, shouldn't it take, for instance, 4 times the splash damage, or one time for each piece hit?

It just makes sense to me, since splash weapons and area spells would hit a lot more than just a single square (yes I know they take 50% more damage, but that's because of the numbers in ONE square).

I don't think so, unfortunately.

In less than 24 hours I'll be heading out for three weeks of international travel. There will be times when I'll be able to post, but other times I may not be able to. Please bear with me, and/or bot me as necessary.

Three weaks! That's nice! Where are you heading?

Home. California->Arizona->Colorado->New Mexico->Colorado->Ohio->Michigan->Back to China.

LOL, you can ignore my asking in the colonization game, then.

*waves from Cali*

Wow. Big tour. Travel safe.

OK, based on Throndrir's roll I think all we know are undead+incorporeal traits.

What do we have that can hurt this thing?
- The +1 kukri we just found can deal half damage.
- Devan's bombs should deal full.
- Throndrir could use CLW to hurt it.

...and that may be it, unfortunately. Or….does Throndrir's holy power let his weapon deal half damage too?

Rahaal can do a bunch of things but compared to the average cleric is woefully unprepared for the undead: she does negative channeling, and can't even convert spells to CLW.

Defensively we might be slightly better off: we have two potions of hide from undead (which goes away after attacking), and I can give three of us protection from evil for a minute each (which will at least protect us from the fascination effect that none of us know about yet in character).

Unfortunately, this thing will deal 1d4 WIS damage / round to us, and gain 5 THP per round as it does.

- Do any of y’all have holy water? (a LOT of it?)
- Can Tris’s sneak attack work on an incorporeal foe (assuming she takes the +1 kukri?)

Best case,
- someone hands holy water to Devan (who can add his INT to the damage), after which he starts throwing bombs
- Tris attacks for half dam + SA with the kukri
- Throndrir’s holy weapon effects this thing for half dam
- and Rahaal buffs folks a bit with communal pro from evil, performance, bless, ispiring command

...this thing’ll still be gaining 5 HP / round while doing WIS dam to us (and possibly fascinating folks as well).

I happen to be in a game of Jelani’s where our 4th level party just fled two allips, but I’m not sure I see an option other than running away and hoping a local temple is stocked with holy water (and probably Lesser Restoration scrolls too).

What do y’all think? Am I missing anything?

I know that all our characters know so far is that this is some freaky incorporeal ghostlike thing...

Yes, I'm in Jelani's game, too. Allip's are nasty.

You will be helped with the allip's tactics.

But Discussing your tactics is the best approach.

Thanks Jubal, can you confirm if Throndrir's holy weapon power makes his hammer effect the allip? And if SA works on them (assuming Tris has a magic weapon)?

EDIT: Just occurred to me that Countersong can likely counter the allip's babble, but it'd be good to get confirmation on that as well.

...and of course it's perfectly reasonable to answer any or all of these with "you just don't know"

I have 2 CLW prepared (one of which is already used), and one in a scroll, but no holy water.

Thanks Jubal, can you confirm if Throndrir's holy weapon power makes his hammer effect the allip? And if SA works on them (assuming Tris has a magic weapon)?

Thondrir's holy weapon power would make it magical.

SA would not work, because it is formless like oozes.

cheers

I do have an oil of magic weapon. Though I suggest someone who hits harder than my d6 be the one to use it.

Then takes the Kukri, and use that on my greatsword or on my arrows. I can shoot 2 per round, so it's nice.

Small-sized kukri (I presume, since dark slayers are small), so I'll take penalties using it... but better'n nothing, anyway.

Given that I stated in-thread that I was searching the dark slayer's body, Jubal, can we assume I have the kukri already rather than have to waste turns in drawing and passing weapons around?

Ah, almost forgot: I also have an oil of bless weapon, which also gets around the incorporeality problem, for what it's worth.

It's probably considerably more beneficial for me to apply oils to other people's weapons than to strike with a small kukri, at a penalty, for a d3 of damage that gets halved anyway.

how do the oils work with natural weapons?
It seems like Throndrir has himself covered. After him, Esaul, Arend, and Light might be the best targets.

Though someone who has nothing better to do should attack with the Kukri because it's *something*.

Seems like our best options at this point are:
Throndrir -- attack with his magicalized axe
Esaul -- attack with oiled bow or greatsword
Arend or Light -- attack buffed by oil...if that works
(Does Arend have hands? could he attack with the kukri? He has reasonable STR, right?)
-- the other thing Arend might be useful for is tanking (if we can make the allip attack him, I assume his WIS comes back tomorrow if he dies)
Devan bombs if he has any left
Rahaal buffs

Not totally convinced it'll be enough but let's give it a shot.

Note, I can cast communal protection from evil on three of us. Who're the most important targets? Thinking Throndrir, Esaul, and whoever else gets oiled up.

Oil of Magic Weapon = does not work on natural weapons, as it specifically states in the spell description for it that it does not work on them

Oil of Bless Weapon = does work on natural weapons, since it does not have that omission (unless Jubal rules otherwise)

And I'm about 85% certain that Arend will not auto-heal WIS damage. I could swear I read something about eidolons retaining any status conditions they had when dismissed/killed, etc, save for HP, which they get back half of when resummoned, but I can't find that specific rule on my quick look through the eidolon and summoner pages.

Arend will be worse off with the dagger than Tris, since he has no proficiency for it and would attack with a -6 penalty to my -2.

Anyway, I have to spend at least 2 rounds getting people's gear lubed up (Tris's new life position: oiler and fluffer), and on my third round if I'm still alive and the allip is still alive I'll probably chuck a holy water before I resort to the kukri.

One more problem, Rahaal:

You and I are at the back of the party. The allip is in my square. You need to touch people for your prot-from-evil to affect them. You won't be able to touch people without passing through a square containing an allip, at least as things stand right this second, and taking that touch attack to smack your Wis around.

This creature will be hard enough, so friendly foreshadowing...

the allip is leaving after this round.

So be careful on the oil usage

Yes, I forgot the Will save. Good call

Tris, thanks for the corrections!

Jubal, thanks for the foreshadowing.

Well, I changed my mind for this round, because Esaul zapped him.

We'll see after all the Fascination Will saves how quickly the allip leaves.

Welp.

So just to be clear, we're having an allip who has a non-standard 10-ft reach, occupies two squares so is non-standard size, and you're also hinting to us as a GM to not really bother fighting it?

I'm glad Tris failed her save vs the Will, because I would then be in the position of either trying to play my character according to what makes IC sense for her-- or meta-gaming by using the hint the GM has dropped to not actually try to win the fight.

Sorry if I sound a little annoyed with that, but frankly, I am a little annoyed with that. I don't mind hard/challenging fights, but I prefer to win (or lose!) them based on what we manage to do... not to feel like I'm being set up for a fight that I'm not supposed to win, and then given a 'friendly' hint to not actually do the things that might give us a chance at winning it.

Even IF the allip's tactics as written are just to f#@+ with us by drifting out through the walls and slowly robbing us of our Wis with little chance to retaliate on our part, then... let those be the tactics; and let us respond accordingly, rather than giving us 'hints', please?

That's my two cents, anyway, I suppose other people in the party may feel differently.

Well, I'm sorry to annoy you. I completely understand how you feel.

The allip in the module is large version of the standard one. Unfortunately, my character just got mauled by two allips in Jelani's game. We still haven't defeated them, and he had to throw a cat familiar into the fight to prevent a TPK.

Rahaal was asking for meta-gaming advice, so I took it one step further. Yes, the tactics are meant to f&%+ with you, especially because the resources needed to fight it are consumable.

I want this to be fun and avoid a TPK. I take constructive criticism.

cheers

Fair enough regarding Rahaal asking for meta-gaming advice, I guess for me it's just that when the GM throws in meta-gaming advice that amounts to 'hey, don't bother seriously fighting it', that... goes beyond a discussion of party tactics, to me, and into 'well, now we know we're just being screwed, here', if that makes sense?

Sorry, though, I was kind of snarky in my comment. I recognize you're just running it as written; it's not that I think you personally are trying to go out of your way to screw with us.

Tris just needs to earn her keep somehow with the party, after nearly killing everyone with her torch. ;)

Anyway, no hard feelings, it is what it is, and apologies for my tone. It's a hard position to be in as a GM when you're like 'hoo boy, this fight could really wreck the PCs'.

Jubal, glad to see I'd missed one save...and that the other two just succeeded.

I feel, strategically, like the right thing is either to give it everything we've got (which *might* be enough, if Throndrir can survive long enough) or else run run run for the hills!

Thinking this through again...Throndrir just rolled his max & did 19/2=10 damage. His average will be 12/2=6 damage. Assuming the allip hits as often as he does (and gains 5 THP every time he both hits and deals WIS dam...which'll become increasingly likely as Throndrir's WIS goes down) that's a net of 1 damage / round. Throndrir will clearly collapse before the allip does unless we can get in there to help somehow.

What can we do to tip the odds? Well, we could:
* use both of Tris' oils to allow Esaul and Arend to attack
* have Rahaal start stacking buffs (inspire courage for +1 hit/dam, inspiring command for +2 hit/AC , communal pro from evil for +2 to AC/saves)
* have Devan throw his last bombs, and then throw Tris' holy water
* Tris attacks with a small +1 kukri because it's better than nothing
*...and (hopefully) something else I'm not thinking of right now??

I think that gives us a chance to win (though maybe not a big one).

Jubal, before we decide amongst ourselves whether or not to take that risk...I'll admit I'm thrown off by you saying "the allip is leaving after this round. So be careful on the oil usage" and then not having it leave.

I don't expect tips about things we couldn't know...but once we've gotten one and then it becomes not true yet but it could be soon, I'm not sure how to strategize anymore. Can you reset my expectations? Just saying "Ignore my previous table talk. Just do whatever your characters would do, with the info they have. Like any monster, the allip might or might not flee." is fine. A new friendly hint is fine too, if you want...but right now I'm a bit confused about whether we should be following your previous advice or not.

Thanks!

OK, resetting expectations and table-talk: The allip normally drifts around randomly nailing people. It is sticking around, because you keep damaging it. Counter-intuitive. But I've been trying to describe that a little in my thin description of events.

FYI Devan's bombs have no effect, but him throwing holy water would.

Thanks Jubal!

Whaddaya say gang?

* Go all in -- burning lots of resources and possibly still needing to drag one or more out of here, looking for multiple uses of lesser restoration (from local clerics and/or scrolls & potions)?
* Run for the hills now, in the hopes that Fairhaven has resources somewhere that'll better prep us for this (e.g. holy water & potions)?
* Some other idea?

I'm interested in suggestions besides going all in on the allip, but at this point that's my (tentative) vote.

If not for the difficult terrain issue, I might feel better about running. But no five-foot steps, no way to maneuver and keep everyone together without provoking attacks of opportunity (remember that the allip is effectively splitting the party right now, because Rahaal's on one side of it, Tris is inside it, Esaul is inside it, Thondrir's on the other side of it, etc), it has reach so there's no ability to withdraw without provoking, there's no way for multiple people to really attack without squeezing... speaking from a purely tactical standpoint, I feel like we're effed if we run, and effed if we fight, and if effing is going to happen regardless, I prefer fighting.

But that's entirely a personal gaming philosophy, and I fully acknowledge it could lead to a TPK in this instance.

While we have resources we should not run from it. It could just come after us, and being able to pass through walls would give it a huge advantage over us. It needs to be killed folks.

OK, that's a majority. Let's burn our resources!

I'm still on vacay, and haven't had time to catch up and understand the intricacies of this fight. But Devan will gladly throw holy water at it if there's room and someone gives him some.

Esaul will have some improvements pretty soon!! Me is happy!

I'm at a lake house in the Catskills (NY state) for the next week. I expect to be around from time to time...but no guarantees of frequency so please feel free to DMPC as needed.

I'm leaving for a week vacation with the family and without Internet. We return next Tuesday. I'll post another round if Esaul posts.

cheers

Congrats on beating the Allip, y'all! I wasn't sure we could do it.

Indeed congratulations! Thondrir gets the trophy!

I'm back. Last chance to finalize marching order and buff.

My wife and kids are still on vacation, which kind of makes me on vacation too. So I'm posting slower than I would prefer.

cheers

How close to the front do we need Rahaal to be, to benefit from her +10 Perception & Darkvision? I vote to have her as close to the front as we need for that (and no closer).

Setting Rahaal aside, the order Tris and Esaul proposed is:
(Front) Thondrir > Tris > Esaul > Light > Devan > Arend (Rear)

Which seems good to me, with the only question being how close to the front do we need Rahaal to take advantage of her PER? (If she needs to be right behind Throndrir, stick her there. If she can see ahead enough behind Tris or even further back, even better!

Look it's 60 feet. So if Rahaal sees something Thondrir misses, you're back however many 5 feet spaces. Your call

Thondrir > Rahaal > Tris > Esaul > Light > Devan > Arend, tada. That works, let's not get too hung up on it.

Cool, yeah, let's move on. Sounds like we're not worrying about folks ahead obstructing view which means even having her back behind Tris would work well.

Let's move forward, looking for traps and anomalies...and an army of trapped Fairhavenistas!

As a heads-up, I'll be at Pacificon this weekend, the 29th through the 1st. I will try and check the boards each night and make sure I'm not missing something super important, but posting will be minimal. GMPC my character if necessary.

I've updated Esaul according to the ACG, and the changes are as follow: