Trying to decide whether I want to run a few modules (I have a bunch of them I've never even opened) or make my own encounters.
If I do modules, Carrion Hill is probably gonna be the level 5 one.
Any preferences.
Well remember we only have what a month to complete these playtests? Them being Pbp running something like Carrion Hill will take the majority of time unless we are hyper active.. like the Medieval group hyper.
Encounters might simply.. be faster and more accurate in a way.
Quite.
Yeah, I guess that's true. Would've been fun though.
Btw the stats above or just for base stuff I plan on changing things as needed. The sooner we start the more complete the data. Also to see how well we might deal against Pseudorandom occasions.
I also must ask what is and is not available to be used.. for example the Technology stuff I assume is off limits.
Assume pretty much all Paizo books are open. No 3rd party, obviously, and yeah no Technology stuff.
Though I would ask you to try to keep splatbooks to a minimum, sticking mainly to the core line. Not any sort of ban on them, but run some stuff by me in case we hit a scenario where it is obviously the Feat or spell skewing the data (such as in the case of Sacred Geometry and Blood Money) and not the class.
So.. Guns? Or Panache? Those cool?
Umm...sure? Early Firearms only.
Any particular reason you want them? I'm not allowing dips for this Playtest (you need to be a full classed Vigilante) so they're of minimal value. And since you're a Warlock, Mystic Bolt would serve you far better.
I can already tell you it won't for a few reasons the first being that it is SP and has to bypass SR when that comes up.. the next is unless you havent been paying attention they made pretty much all the feats not work with it ( Arcane Strike even.. for some reason) so I have my reasons for using such. They are of high value. Not having a dip doesn't make much a difference.
I haven't. Last I heard on that was TWFing worked as long as you did so with a second weapon, but not much else.
But without Gun Training Firearms are basically crossbows that blow up sometimes.
TWFing does work, but with a second weapon. You only get one energy type at this level and I can still very much cast spells. I plan on making other things work regardless of the rulings within the rules. Much like the first ever PFS 'spellslinger' that I started and people copied.
Greetings.
Does havoc of Society have to be taken with Sorc and would Mystic bolts count as a spell for abilities?
Let's go with as close to RAW as possible, so no to both (the former because it has Sorcerer as a prerequisite and the latter because of that SLA FAQ reversal).
So the Mystic Bolt isnt an SLA?
It is an SLA, but SLA's no longer count as spells for any sort of prerequisite unless it mimics a specific spell and that prerequisite requires a specific spell.
Mystic Bolt does not mimic an actual spell.
Hrmm then you cannot use things like empower spell because it lacks a spell level...
Alrighty I think I have my Decisions.
So now we wait on the Zealot.
There is an Empower Spell-Like Ability Feat, by the by.
Who's making a Zealot? I didn't think Dual was in.
Of all the classes, playtesting the Zealot is the least necessary (it is literally just an Inquisitor without Bane or Judgement or Solo Tactics and a few other abilities and less spells per day).
Empower SLA requires a spell level. Also I assumed we wold be using 4 ppl.
I'll see if I can get a hold of Dual. If he doesn't want in, we can do without.
You can always just DMPC the Badquisitor.
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I say, let us do some encounters. Time is of the essence and all.
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I would also say we should run a control test too after we do the vigilante tests by comparing them to investigators and inquisitors in the same scenario.
Because I have a pretty strong feeling that they aren't going to measure up at all to the latter.
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Can I express my disappointment that when it was brought up that talents are much weaker than revelations which are allowed to be taken as a feat, that the designers said in essence, "Well we don't like Extra Revelation and Extra Rage Power, so we're going to pretend they don't exist."
If they're content with making a class that can't compete with longstanding feat choices, then why are we even needed?
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Where did they say that?
Someone wrote:
Shouldn't extra talent be an option given things like Extra Rage Power and Extra Revelation exist?
Logan Bonner wrote:
No.
Someone wrote:
Logan would you mind expanding on this "no". Saying "no" won't make the idea go away. If you have some behind the scene reasons that have not been revealed that would be nice to know, even if you can't give us details on it.
Logan Bronner wrote:
Sure. It's pretty simple, really. Many of the talents are built to be more effective than a feat. Even setting aside spellcasting, there are options like signature weapon that are worth two feats for the cost of one talent. Some previous Extra _____ feats have also been better than other feats, but we'd rather not continue that unfortunate trend, especially since the vigilante will have a really large number of options.
Graystone wrote:
This is a cat that's already out of the bag. "Many of the talents are built to be more effective than a feat" isn't a fair comparison anymore. It's what the 'extra' feats gets you and vigilante talents aren't better than those.
If you are just going it think of the other 'extra' feats as unfortunate mistakes but leave them in place you are in effect penalizing the vigilante because it came out too late. It relegates them to a 'second class' class that doesn't get the same benefit from it's feats. This is particularly clear for the casting varieties that are already tossing 1/2 their talents away on casting before they can pick fun stuff while the oracle is sitting there with full casting and as many extra revelations as they want...
And as a side question, when did the 'extra' feats become an 'unfortunate trend? The last hard cover has extra feats in it so when did they become badwrongfun?
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Here's hoping one of the designers that people actually recognize overrrules him.
Seriously who the f$~# is Logan Bonner? And why is he acting like a Mini-Me of SKR?
Yes Dapper you would indeed be correct in your astute research upon this matter. In essence I believe they wish to somehow justify our ilk being standalone.. much like the fact the Paladin classes have no way of gaining more smite or challenge through a feat.. until recently. One through an archetype.. the other a Feat.
Yeah I don't know, I almost choked when I saw the single "no".
Knowing that people would then ask him about his response since he was purposefully fishing for attention there. Who does that?
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For the record I'm totally fine with no extra talents, provided the designers are genuine about it.
You can't pretend extra Rage talent and Extra Discovery and Extra Revelation etc. Don't exist and then claim talents can't get extra even when they're inferior to the former.
If extra talent isn't going to exist, then they need to balance the talents accordingly. Which means comparing them to the class abilities than CAN take those extra abilities.
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Like, Kineticist good at LEAST. Oracle good is where they need to be aiming, that and above because Oracles ALSO get 9th level casting and other goodies.
Especially when some of the talents are as simple as heavy armor proficiency. Which should probably be baseline to avengers given that if they're ever caught in social mode in said armor they're dead.
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Including the fact Warlocks/Zealots have to pay 5 talents for crappier casting (At least mine is the wizard spellist) I also cannot cast in armor without ASF.
Btw its your turn Zin.
Alias fixed.
So from that encounter we learned that Startling appearance + TWFing plus at least one touch weapon is a good opening round. having them Flat footed for the entire attackline is choice. Warlock seems the least affected if they didnt choose Arcane training 2 at forth.
A lot of choices we made here though were optimal even without being vigilante, and in fact if we did some of the so called "obvious" choices such as 2nd level spells or heavy training would have significantly hurt us here.
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Startling Appearance would have had another minor upside in letting Blackjack Sneak Attack this round as well, and negating Slapper's AoOs from unarmed attacks.
Blackjack couldnt Sneak Attack as they were not within striking range nor was he stealth. Only one was still flat footed but it was 60ft away.
My luck might have skewed it a bit but it is to be expected.
Well I could've charged at him, but I didn't want to make my AC any lower than it already is.
Slapper would have only not provoked from one. And Blackjack as he said would have been in for some pain.
Investigation time.
I understand if it seems difficult to post things Rynjin when you are busy laughing so hard.
I'm having a lot of fun with the wacky antics and silver age comics-y shenanigans. =)
Rynjin the person who took the ray was Blackjack not Slapper.
Indeed, I was confused.
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I believe, if memory serves I'm at 40hp, 2 from one bonfire, and 6 from a salamander, top of my head.
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Hrm it has 11th level scorching ray.
It's an Efreeti Janissary, it's going to do terrible things to us.
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Is this still part of the test?!
To see how far your anus can stretch!
It's a legit test, there are definitely lvl five parties who wouldn't care about it. We're not that party though lol.
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