Divination Spells


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


So, I'm not one to usually rant; however I have recently started playing a Divinationist Wizard. I usually like to look ahead and plan out my character and as I was I came across the 9th level Divination spell Foresight. Can someone explain to me why this spell should even be considered on the 8th level spell list let alone the 9th? It gives you the ability to always act in a surprise round (if you're ambushed within the 2 1/2 hrs you would have, also this is already an ability that I have for being a Divination specialist) as well as giving you a +2 to your AC and Ref save. Really? That's a 9th level spell. So, disappointed in that spell I decided to try and find some other 9th level Divination spells and throughout the CB, APG, UM, and UC, Foresight is the ONLY 9th level Divination spell... this seems like a rather large slight against Divinationists... can someone tell me if I am being unreasonable and why?


Diviners do get some of the effects of Forsight and so those effects would be redundant. Other wizards lacking the Diviners specialist abilities would gain those benefits.

As for why Forsight is a 9th level spells....

If the spell is used with just its base listed mechanical components it sucks pretty much.

However if you read the description it stats that Foresight warns you of danger before it happens and gives you a general idea of what action can be taken to avoid the danger. This is what I see as the power of the spells. Though it all depends on how your GM runs the spell.

How I have run and seen it runs it does exactly what it says warns of danger.

Examples..

(Poison)
Divine: "I drink the healing potion the merchant sold me."
GM: "As you raise the potion to your lips you get a sense of danger and a horrible bitter taste in your mouth. The potion smells foul and you get a phantom burning sensation in your throat."

(Traps)
Diviner: "I walk over to the chest and examine it."
GM: "As enter the room and are walking towards the chest you get the feeling that a few of the stones of the floor are unsafe and should be avoided."

(Betrayal)
Diviner: "Now that I have the identity of the spy I will run to the baron and tell him who it is."
GM: As you get to the baron's manor he greats you in the study. As you are about to tell him the identity of the spy you get an unsettling feeling. Something isn't right here and it would be dangerous to tell the Baron the truth."

This is how I read the spell effect working. Otherwise you are right without this effect it pretty much sucks as a 9th level spell and I would put it closer to 4th or 5th tops.


The only problem is the duration of the spell. At 10min/caster level, you would have to cast that spells before doing ANYTHING and even then its a 9th level spell, not going to have a bunch of those lying around each day. If it was 1 hour/caster level then I could see the usefulness in that ability, but unless the character you're playing is paranoid and trusts no one this is a very limited spell effect. Also the other part of my question remains. Why are there NO OTHER 9th level Divination spells in any of the books? This spell is the ONLY one.


It does certainly seem as if this spell is lacking...

The real problem with most divination spells is that they're hard to design, harder to adjudicate and most designers/GMs hate em cause they're likely to destroy most plots if adjudicated fairly. A good GM (in this instance meaning one who doesn't railroad his players) can't always predict what's going to happen during gameplay and so often has no idea what to tell players who cast divination spells. Even if they do know the answers that the players seek, many GMs are loathe to reveal information which will ruin the fun they'll derive from surprising their players. Those two reasons are why most high-level divinations include a provision allowing GMs to withhold information or simply shrug and say "I don't know" as a valid response.

Honestly, most Divination/prognostication spells/abilities aren't tools for the PCs; they're tools for the GM to freely pass along the information he wants his players to know while withholding the secrets he wants to keep. Is it fair? Certainly not; but that's the nature of the beast.

I personally loooove using divinations, knowledges and sleuthing to figure out intricate plots to avoid pitfalls, outmanoeuvre bad guys and solve problems, but unless you're playing with a particularly enlightened/imaginitive GM or enjoy serving as your GM's mouthpiece, I'd likely avoid playing a pure diviner myself.


I'm playing a Lore Master and I'm going for the encyclopedia type character. My strengths aren't in combat but in getting to the truth about things and I enjoy the character. It just frustrated me that there was only one option throughout all the books for a Divination specialist, and not one I can look forward too...

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