I was reading the Advanced Weapon Training combat feat, especially the part it says about taking the feat as a Weapon Master Fighter:
"Fighters that have the weapon master archetype can select this feat beginning at 4th level... A weapon master can select this feat as a bonus feat; if he does so, it doesn't count for the purpose of the requirement that it can be taken at most once per 5 fighter levels."
Here's how I interpret that: As a weapon master I can take this feat at fourth level as a bonus feat, and since it doesn't count against the 'per 5 fighter level' restriction, I can take it at 5th level as well as a normal feat. This is because the second Special overrides the first one for WM's, and is an exception to it. Then I can take it at 6th level and every even-numbered level as a bonus feat if I'd like, since none of them count toward the restriction. At 9th level I can take it as a regular feat again if I wish, as normal.
It might sounds nuts, but I'm not sure how else to interpret that.
J
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Almost correct :)
You can take it at 5th level as a normal feat, but your next opportunity to take it as a normal feat isn't until 11th level. (Actually 10th, but you don't get a normal feat at that level.)
*Starting at 4th level, the Weapon Master can take the AWT feat as one of his bonus feats as many times as he wants. This is completely independent of his normal odd-level feats.
*A Weapon Master can also take the AWT as one of his normal feats, but that is still subject to the "once per 5 fighter levels" limit.
Here's how I interpret that: As a weapon master I can take this feat at fourth level as a bonus feat, and since it doesn't count against the 'per 5 fighter level' restriction, I can take it at 5th level as well as a normal feat.
That is correct, that is how it is works. The Weapon Master is still limited in how many times they can take it with regular feats, but they can take as many times as they want with their Fighter bonus feats and it doesn't count against how many times they can take it with regular feats.
Yes, it is very strong. Keep in mind that the Weapon Master archetype doesn't get Weapon Training in specific weapon categories, so several of the options (like Versatile Training) simply do not function for it. So it's not nearly as insane as it sounds, since you're going to run out of useful selections much earlier than a typical Fighter. Advanced Weapon Training was intended to essentially be an "Unchained Fighter" and is supposed to be a massive upgrade in much the same sense that the Unchained Rogue is just an upgrade on the original.
Thanks for the reinforcement guys, I kept thinking I must be getting that wrong, especially since Hero Lab wouldnt let me do it, but I can't think of another way to interpret it.
Follow up question: I am thinking of taking a level of Brawler in my build, for a couple of reasons.
The martial training feature of Brawlers says: "... a brawler counts her total brawler levels as both fighter levels and monk levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats. She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes."
Would this mean if I take Brawler at 2nd level, that I don't mess up my progression of taking Advanced Weapon Training at my 4th character level? My thinking is that I would still count as a 4th level fighter/weapon master.
One other question too: how far does this ability go? If I take a second Brawler level at character level 5 for the Brawler's bonus feat, when I go back to Fighter at level 6 would I get the bonus feat that Fighters get at level 6?
J
Would this mean if I take Brawler at 2nd level, that I don't mess up my progression of taking Advanced Weapon Training at my 4th character level? My thinking is that I would still count as a 4th level fighter/weapon master.
While you would count as a 4th level Fighter for the purposes of meeting prerequisites and thus could take the Advanced Weapon Training feat as a bonus Fighter feat, you'd only be a 3rd level Fighter in this case and you don't get a bonus Fighter feat at 3rd level so it would mess it up for a completely unrelated reason.
One other question too: how far does this ability go? If I take a second Brawler level at character level 5 for the Brawler's bonus feat, when I go back to Fighter at level 6 would I get the bonus feat that Fighters get at level 6?
You would have 2 levels of Brawler and 4 levels of Fighter, so you would get the bonus feat that Fighters get at 4th level.
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The martial training feature of Brawlers says: "... a brawler counts her total brawler levels as both fighter levels and monk levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats. She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes."
Would this mean if I take Brawler at 2nd level, that I don't mess up my progression of taking Advanced Weapon Training at my 4th character level? My thinking is that I would still count as a 4th level fighter/weapon master.
Not quite.
It means that you count your brawler levels as fighter levels for purpose of meeting requirements of feats. So a brawler 1/fighter 3 would qualify for Weapon Specialization, which requires 4 fighter levels. A brawler 4/fighter 6 would count as having 10 fighter levels when deciding how many times he can take the Advanced Weapon Training feat (once per 5 fighter levels).
It does NOT mean that he adds his brawler levels to determine what fighter abilities he gets. A brawler 2/fighter (weapon master) 7 does not get Mirror Move. A brawler 1/fighter 3 does not get the fighter's 4th level bonus feat.
Your particular example is a bit tricky to puzzle through but does have a right answer. Brawler 1/fighter (weapon master) 3 counts as having a total of 4 fighter (weapon master) levels for meeting feat requirements. So IF he got a fighter bonus feat at that level he could use it to take AWT. But he doesn't get a bonus feat at fighter level 3, so he can't. And since that's only a total of 4 fighter levels, he can't take AWT with a "normal" feat.
One other question too: how far does this ability go? If I take a second Brawler level at character level 5 for the Brawler's bonus feat, when I go back to Fighter at level 6 would I get the bonus feat that Fighters get at level 6?
You would get the bonus feat for the fighter's 4th level.
Great, that was my conclusion.
Here's what I want to do. I want to have a guy that can be up front with a reach weapon, and specializes in AoO's, doing area control. Originally I wanted to make a Fighter with a Fauchard and increase the crit range and lay down some smack, with some nice Style feats mixed in. I've thinking of changing the chassis a bit.
I'm now looking at getting a pet and going the Linnorm Hunter Style/Broken Wing Gambit route, Combat Reflexes, etc, and get a boatload of AoO's.
It seems that the best synergy is to take either the Hunter class or the Inquisitor/Sacred Huntsmaster, both of which are great for pets, and both offer the Snake Animal Focus, which pimps out AoO's and AoO defense. Not sure which class is better there, there are pros and cons. I might go Hunter as I get Outflank for free, Lead Blades, etc. I don't get Bane though, which would be awesome.
The problems are the BAB is lower and the HP's are d8's instead of d10's. Also, using a Fauchard means an exotic weapon proficiency, and between Human and Half-elf to mitigate this I like Half-elf. Getting the Elven Branched Spear for 'free' would be great (and I could take Elven Battle Training), but it has no crit range.
A half-elf is also good because I may decide to dip into another class because I want to increase my AoO's if possible. One dip into Shaman lets me get the Battle Spirit. This allows me to get an additional AoO, lets me cast Enlarge Person, and grants a +1 morale bonus to atk/dmg to me and my allies (making up for the loss of BAB).
There is one final option, and that is being a Vigilante. At level 6 I can take Vital Punishment, which gives me Vital Strike and lets me add it to my AoO's once per round.
Any thoughts on the optimal route to go?
J