Mm did clarify and that got us
"No one has been down here in some time."
:p
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I feel that if she actually plopped down sneakily in an underground cavern sea (that may or may not connect to the lake of mists) we've got pretty low odds of finding her. I'd say the odds of her getting out alive is also pretty poor, so that seems fair :p
She may not have been given a choice to go with the spiders or not - they may have insisted. In a hard-to-refuse kind of way :p
Down with a bit of a cold. Would like to try of something clever to defuse the situation, but can't right now. I'll sleep on it at least!
Can't post today. Back tomorrow.
:/
Fey aren't great with this love thing I guess.
It'll be hilarious once our party gets a reputation for the most handsome of ogres around the first world :P
Hurricane time. Please be patient and, gods willing, I'll see you on the other side.
Good luck and God's speed.
Good luck!
Hurricane time? I gotcha. Here's my recommendation:
1 oz light rum
1 oz gold rum is traditional, but I used Kraken
1 oz orange juice
1 oz pineapple juice
Dash grenadine
1-2 maraschino cherries
And, of course, crank up the Scorpions.
(But seriously, good luck. Henri just missed us last weekend.)
Best of Luck.
@Handsome Ogres: Not certain that gal gets a lot of social contact even with other first-worlders...but we'll see.
I mean, use a tear-away prop-top one time at a provincial theater show and watch the GM run away with that :D
@Ogres - no probably not. Once we've get our things back on track and find Erevenywg and have some downtime, we could see if we could use one of the fairies to lure the other up to the surface with tall tales. I'm sure that'll be a good way to learn mortal social skills :p
Also, I am curious what's in the bronze chest. I know I "found" it, but by all means, you guys left behind on the ground try and get it open to keep things moving :)
We can do that in parallel, right, we'll just try not to drop anything on you. (and if there's trouble, we can charge downwards!)
Just my interpretation of the riiiiip rip sounds. If we can be careful that'd be great!
And yeah all spider options are bad :p
Our cleric does seems to have made an accurate assessment of things >.>
I'll get a full post up tonight!
Just swooping by to say that Illthir can't be flat footed due to Uncanny Dodge! Which doesn't matter, but it feels good :p
Also with Bull's Strength, her Str mod is +5! Which might matter for the entangle ... Not that she can move far while being tied to the rope anyhow :p
Thirdly I did update the poor and neglected status bar :D
Maybe if we can get some Anti-Spider support fire from ground team and they roll lucky on their Miss Chance, we'll be fine. I staggered it so that it had to decide between moving or attacking - and called out to fire above us, so they should be able to manage a fire solution to the correct vector to intersect with our 8-legged menace.
Here's hoping. I know it's a boss fight theme, but I'm not a huge fan of being separate from the rest of the team, so I hope it's more of a mini-boss, not one of those optional bosses that you evade until much later - plus the loot seems to suck if there is movement in the web sack, because I kind of hoped we don't come to that moral crossroad if it IS her.
Also with Bull's Strength, her Str mod is +5! Which might matter for the entangle ... Not that she can move far while being tied to the rope anyhow :p
And, Fatigued is only a -1 on Str checks, not a -2, so with Bull's Strength Illthir clearly beat the spider on that check.
Durgan will do what he can once it is his turn. He's got a crossbow and can possibly target a square even if he can't see the spider.
Though Alia just did a ton of damage to it... you guys might have this on your own. (Still going to try to help.)
I'm sorry. Forgot to say. I'm on vacation from yesterday to Sunday. My labtop is broken so I wont have much access time to make posts. I'll see if I can make a post or two from my phone. But feel free to bot.
Also with Bull's Strength, her Str mod is +5! Which might matter for the entangle ... Not that she can move far while being tied to the rope anyhow :pAnd, Fatigued is only a -1 on Str checks, not a -2, so with Bull's Strength Illthir clearly beat the spider on that check.
Durgan will do what he can once it is his turn. He's got a crossbow and can possibly target a square even if he can't see the spider.
Though Alia just did a ton of damage to it... you guys might have this on your own. (Still going to try to help.)
What Durgan said. Had you tied the spider would have won based upon its higher ability score (Str 23).
Mathfinder hurts my head sometimes.
Here's hoping. I know it's a boss fight theme, but I'm not a huge fan of being separate from the rest of the team, so I hope it's more of a mini-boss, not one of those optional bosses that you evade until much later - plus the loot seems to suck if there is movement in the web sack, because I kind of hoped we don't come to that moral crossroad if it IS her.
Not to worry, Alia might be back down on firm ground sooner than you think. ;)
I'm sorry. Forgot to say. I'm on vacation from yesterday to Sunday. My labtop is broken so I wont have much access time to make posts. I'll see if I can make a post or two from my phone. But feel free to bot.
Roger that.
Everyone hear that? First dibs on the treasure! WOO-HOO! ;)
Yay!!
Not really wishing to wander off and trigger another encounter, possibly simultaneously with Alia and Illthir's next one. At least right now Durgan and the rest are able to potentially help them.
Well, it's not really wandering off - looking at the map, you are standing 10 to 15 feet away from the structures in question.
I would say "I think if there was danger, we would know already", but alone by stating that here I probably ensure that there is now a spider swarm or something waiting to be discovered.
It's all good if we want to wait with taking a look in those until we are back down, but before nobody said anything which caused the confusion.
Dun dun dun!
...Now, what do we do?
There *are* probably ways to redeem the child. If she is actually a child.
But a quick stab might be what we desire? A lot less baggage, in many ways, then dragging a tied-down girl through half the civilized world :p
Perhaps most importantly - do we know if were-ness cause evilness? If so that's an excuse, if a flimsy one.
Out of character? Nope, Lycantrophy should not alter your vanilla self, it only takes over when it's active. So technically, she probably simply embraced that and was Chaotic Evil to begin with.
Of course, the question is what happened to her to cause her to become such - ...
And yeah, thats a situation I did NOT want to be in. She completely deserves it for all that she has done, was willing to do, and would do if left to her devices.
But all the same, it would currently be cold-blooded murder. (And I did have complete walls of text worth of discussion with Numalar back then about Justice and her refusal of the Death Penalty when some bandits got a chance for redemption and others were hanged in a public spectacle as a show to appease the masses.
*sigh*
Durgan is LG, but a bit more Lawful than Good. He would probably feel personally that such predators are incompatible with civilization - that is, if he is from a context of a more medieval-ish Brevoy rather than a super-cosmopolitan "modern day in medieval drag" kind of setting.
So, he would not feel troubled at carrying out the laws of Brevoy - if such laws say to kill the beast, he would be willing to kill it if the party so wished. We are still in Brevoy, after all - we could have different laws in Avalon.
Of course, there is the option of bringing Ilvah in chains to Restov and letting them deal with her.
It does seem extremely likely that her fate is death either way, so Illthir's suggestion of a quick "mercy kill" seems justified. Additionally, Ilvah did attack us and did not surrender. This is not cold-blooded murder but rather the resolution of that battle.
Just to clarify, that was one of the two options I thought we'd go for.
I'm more in the camp of redemption. Only though if both our characters and players feel it is feasible though.
I understand your reasoning, Durgan. I am just saying stabbing a unconscious person to death does feel murdery to Alia(and me, by extension).
I would also tend to try and find out why she became that way - hoping in some small corner that redemption is possible.
But even if not, having a talk, deciding together, and carrying out a sentence based on a semblence of justice would allow her to have nightmares for a shorter time than if she did the 'mercy kill' right now.
Basically, Alia is still very aware that her failure to listen to others is what escalated the situation in the first place. So she is unwilling to push for the redemption she would normally believe in.
At the same time, if the verdict is death, she does not want to shoulder that weight alone.
Durgan would support redemption if there were evidence that Ilvah was genuinely repentant.
He is willing to kill unconscious foes if they are rendered that way by a Sleep spell and would resume hostilities upon awakening. Similarly if they were rendered unconscious by wounds or by exhaustion.
I don't love CdG'ing sleeping foes, and am glad it is not a regular part of our game, but if we knocked out Salzarus with a Color Spray or something then Durgan would absolutely CdG him.
Redemption is not a quick or easy process. If you genuinely wish to make Ilvah an ongoing part of the campaign, having her be our prisoner while you mentor and guide her, I will support that decision. Serena follows Sarenrae, and Zokon sort of does; redemption is in her portfolio.
Durgan's preferences, in order:
1) Mercy kill right now
2) Wake her up for a field trial and probable execution (unless she presents a very compelling desire for redemption)
3) Bring her to Restov and let someone else decide
4) Make her our prisoner until she becomes Good, whether she desires redemption or not
5) Leave her and let nature take its course (which OOC I know will almost certainly mean she survives and becomes a recurring foe)
He will go along with any of these.
Aye, and with Salzarus, I would tend to agree.
What makes this different in Alia's eyes is that for the past couple weeks, she was travelling with us and she was trying to mentor the girl on things, hoping she'd open up over whatever trauma made her the way she is.
There's still the chance some traumatic experience made her chaotic evil, but thats beyond the point.
Even though the girl devastated all trust Alia might have had at that destroyed tower, it's still a different thing to kill some enemy combatant outside your monkey-sphere, or someone you tried to shelter for several weeks.
Kind of how I have no trouble picking up sausages in the supermarket, but would probably not manage to raise a little piglet, then slaughter it to make ham.
(For the record, I know plenty of people have no issue with that, and I am not talking about morals here - just saying that at the point you are involved closely, some things become harder.)
Back. Fergus is LN, more Neutral than Lawful, he is very practical and pragmatic. As evident in his willingness to make use of invasive magic such as detect thoughts/seek thoughts and magic of questionable origin (infernal healing).
He isn't fond of enchantment, as normally magic will run its course, and people likely are to get angry about such mind magic. So its usually more hurtful than helpful save certain situations.
In this situation, Fergus has no empathy for them. It would be a large hindrance dragging them along with the group in a plethora of ways, and it would be of utmost foolishness to let them go.
He is fine for a quick finish so the group can make up for lost time, and would be against bringing them along at all. He has no qualms with killing sleeping foes, its more efficient, its safer, and it takes less time and effort in some cases.
Some arguments for sparing - the ones I can think of at least. I'd love if we took a few days to ponder at least, given we've already spent a while on this. Better resolve it properly since we're at it :p
1) She did leave our camp rather then endanger us.
1a) That could be because she feared what we'd do. Which is reasonable.
1b) That could be because she didn't want us to know. Which is also reasonable.
1c) Could be that she actually hoped to pick us off one by one?
1d) Could be that she really wanted to hunt something ...
2) She was raised by wolves?
2a) Would make the hunters and prey comments a bit less disturbing.
2b) Would mean that we may have to do civilization 101 if she lives ...
2c) Could mean a N instead of our assumed CE in the alignment section.
3) She's juuuuuuuuuuuuuuust a child! This isn't actually a useful argument, merely feelings :p
What is clear though is that she felt compelled to defend her secret violently.
I'm wondering if 1a or 1b would excuse that, given what an average adventure party may do to a werewolf.
If the case is 1c or 1d instead ... Depending on what the compulsion on 1d would be it's different degrees of bad, but mostly bad.
2) is mostly mitigating circumstances which may explain things.
Anyhow just some ramblings!
Dun dun dun!
...Now, what do we do?
There *are* probably ways to redeem the child. If she is actually a child.
Ilvah is older than she looks, because she is a scrawny peasant child and would be considered an adult in Game of Thrones terms, though not in modern western terms*
* Excluding the US States: of Alaska, Louisiana and South Carolina, Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Washington, and similar places where you can still get married at 12 or 13.
I am just saying stabbing a unconscious person to death does feel murdery to Alia(and me, by extension).
I would also tend to try and find out why she became that way - hoping in some small corner that redemption is possible.
There might not be time for that. See Gameplay.
2) She was raised by wolves?
Having traveled with her for a month that does not seem to be the case, though she seemed to have been living rough for sometime prior to your encounter.
Back.
Hope the vacation went well.
Serena will not openly commit to or permit her murder, regardless of how the player feels (as I personally think that she deserves to die). She could possibly be convinced that field trial is in order, if she fell that Ilvah were to be given a fair chance and to speak for herself. She doesn't like waiting to see if the poison runs its course. but she does not want to kill her outright.
I'm gunning for the "gods send people where they need to be" stance yeah. I saw this meme the other day about covid with some guy going "if god wanted it he'd send a sign/help!" and the next frame where poor frazzled god with his pile of masks, vaccine research and doctors going "bruh I'm literally drowning you in it...". Roughly paraphrased of course, but the energy I'm going for at least :p
For the record, I am aware that she likely has taken quite some damage and nonlethal damage - so a reducing constitution score might be problematic here?
@GM, are you taking that in consideration? If so, I would likely ask Serena to provide some mundane healing, as the "divine trial" is by the toxin, which she would have no chance at all of surviving in her weakened state.
If we can handwaive that and just go with the Con-Score and the Saves, then it's all good, just wanted to speak up before she succumbs to her pre-existing wounds on the next save and I'm angry at myself because I considered the option but did not speak up about it.
She was also bitten multiple times so the poison has a higher DC and a longer duration than the single bite that Illthir got.
Aye, I'm aware. So she will definitely lose quite some Con, possibly enough to kill her.
But I am not entirely sure how the interaction with regular damage and dying threeshold is. I think the latter is only affected by drain, not damage, but as said I'm not sure and would have to check. Poison comes up quite seldom in most games I'm in, and is often dealt with or counteracted before it becomes serious. Just figured if we do want to let the dice decide, then there has to be a chance, even if it's slim. So wanted to speak up in case that is relevant.
(Plus even if she survives the poison, she's not off the hook - )
Poison
Aye. And to add to that, here's the passages from Ability Scores:
Ability Damage:
If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score. The only exception to this is your Constitution score. If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die.
Constitution:
Damage to your Constitution score causes you to take penalties on your Fortitude saving throws. In addition, multiply your total Hit Dice by this penalty and subtract that amount from your current and total hit points.
Ability Drain:
Ability drain actually reduces the relevant ability score. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to lose skill points, hit points, and other bonuses.
So yeah, I believe our trial by poison works on the first part - if Constitution damage >= Consitution score, she dies.
Which is why I would like to make sure the substraction from current/total Hit Points as result from ability damage does not outright kill her(as she is likely hovering near 0 HP, give or take - so any damage could finish her despite having constitution left).
It does seem that only drain reduces the actual score, so at least ability damage does not move the death treeshold for HP damage.
Again, if we can handwaive that and simply check for the constitution damage vs. her constitution score, all good.
If you are still tracking her HP, then I'd try to get Serena(or someone else) to heal some of the HP damage so it's not like "oh, she took one more Con Damage which puts her at -4 - she has 8 Con left but 2xlevel HP is too much, so she's dead anyway".
For the record, I am aware that she likely has taken quite some damage and nonlethal damage - so a reducing constitution score might be problematic here?
@GM, are you taking that in consideration? If so, I would likely ask Serena to provide some mundane healing, as the "divine trial" is by the toxin, which she would have no chance at all of surviving in her weakened state.
Yes, she looks poisoned AND exhausted.
So yeah.. alot of discussion..
Zokon is for the kill or hand over to authorities, unless we can cure her..?
I feel that. I just finished day 6 of my 12-day work week (that I found out about this last Wednesday). Joy. :(
Durgan is right Ilva had taken a lot of Con damage before the additional 7 she took in her final 4 rounds.
So burial duties, and then what?
Sad womp. Though it was expected, I did hope this would work out instead.
So ends the Ilvah side quest? But we still have some loose threads. I've pondered the start a bit, trying to make sense of it. Why would she be with argentov?
Assuming he is good - and possibly a silver dragon - as is our theory. If he is actually a red one in disguise doing this for s&#*s and giggles this won't hold water :p
Of course, his presence could just be chance. But it did sound like he had a plan, did it not? One we weren't suppose to poke by "rescuing" the child.
Anyhow: the theory.
We'd need for Argentov to somehow learn about Ilvahs condition I think. The lonely wolf-cursed girl. And to make it worse; she lives in the land of Zokons nice relative Vlad the Wolfpaler.
So what can a well meaning dragon do? (Except you know care for the child himself?) Well he looks around and sees which people will have her.
Obviously not the humans, not with Vlad the Wolfpaler around. Won't work.
But... There are a group of people that do cherish wolves. Even allied - or at least friendly - with the intelligent winter kind.
So our well meaning dragon takes the wolf child to the trolls to show them. An 'introduce to the pack' project if you will.
Now obviously trolls won't randomly take his word for it, but he just need her to poof into a wolf and see if the winter wolves will have her. If not, no big deal. He's a dragon after all. He can afford to play along. If if it goes wrong, he can just dragon their way out of this.
Though ... There is a complication! Some pesky adventurers, we, arrive. And we won't leave the scene alone, even though Mr dragon has a foolproof adoption plan. Mr dragon won't say that out loud though, because Mr dragon is a dragon and thus a silly goose.
Instead the child does end up with us. Unfortunately... We really won't shut up about wolf attacks. And Vlad the Wolfpaler is the cousin to our ranger, with his name thrown around a lot.
Needless to say, wolf child doesn't feel that being a wolf will be well received. Though all wolf child really wanted was to chase some deers without hunting parties trying to run them to extinction. Poetically that was pretty much what happened ...
Anyhow. This ramble is a construction of my imagination and is only plausible at best. But - it does offer an explanation to Argentovs presence and motivation, something we really haven't had many ideas for.
Thoughts :)?
I would point out that Lind claimed he did not know Ilvah. As for what Lind was doing he had mentioned (to Scarlet who we can assume passed it on to Alia) that his home is up in the Icerime Peaks.
Also, if you are a lone werewolf in a forest full of 'wolfpalers' you might consider moving away to someplace new, possibly with the noble rulers of the place, a place with lots of space, and a possible huge influx of people from all over to hide among.
As for Zokon's cousin, Valorin Medvyed, he was attacked by wolves (at least they looked like wolves) and has borne a hatred of them since. While werewolves are a thing in Brevoy they aren't all that common like say wandering duelists are, or kobolds in Avalon. So it is very possible he has never encountered one himself. Folks who know him know he would instantly dislike them.
That's an interesting scenario, Illthir. I do think that Argentov had a plan that he didn't want to share with us. Poor communication kills.
You also do make a good point that our asking around about wolf attacks would have placed Ilvah on edge.
As I think I said at the time of the troll/wolf fight, it did feel like we were blundering into a situation we knew little about, and could make things worse, but that was an OOC feeling.
IC, Durgan would have wanted to try to help - he is still Good after all, even if a bit more hard-hearted than Illthir. We did the best we could based on the information we had, I think.
Mm I mean Lind could be telling the truth, but that feels like an unsatisfying start. Doesn't mean it's not actually true though :p
But yeah I was mostly trying to piece together the start of things. It could of course simply be a random encounter table spitting out interesting results. But it's more fun imagining draconic conspiracies...
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Aye. We *could* have extracted more information forcefully, but odds are that could have backfired as well.
Well, I wasn't advocating for extracting information more forcefully.
I am not sure what lesson to draw from this.
Be more hesitant about helping people? I would hope not.