Hello, a PC insists that he can stack traits Tireless Logic and Inspired, and roll 3d20 for a Intelligence slill check. Is it so?
Tireless Logic;Once per day when you make an Intelligence-based skill check or ability check, you can roll twice and take the better result.
Inspired:Once per day as a free action, roll twice and take the better result on a skill check or ability check.
THX.
It looks like if you used both on the same roll, you'd roll 4d20 but you would actually roll 2d20 twice, not all 4 at once.
Reroll abilities work differently in many cases and I am only going by what you've written. Some require you to declare you're using the ability before you roll, sometimes you can use it after you roll and even see the results (but not before you know the results, even if a die is a 1 or 20 and you technically would know), and sometimes you can even use it after you find out the result.
If you went to make an Intelligence skill check, it looks like you could declare Tireless Logic and roll 2d20 and take the best result. Depending on when you're allowed to declare the Inspired reroll, it looks like you would reroll the original check (2d20).
I do not see so clear. I've told him that he can't stack those two traits because they have the same trigger. I think that rolling 4d6 (2d6 and 2d6) is like taking two different intelligence skill checks. But I wanted to have other opinions.
even if they stack it would be 3d20 not 4.
since he need to decide which one work first. that one make him roll 2 times and decide which of them is the 'actual' result of that roll. now that result becomes the real 1st roll for the check for the other ability which let him roll a 2nd (3rd actually) time to get the better roll.
so if they do stack he rolls 3d20 and pick the best.
of course you can easily call them not to stack saying that they both do the same thing so it's like getting a haste spell when you are already hasted. the roll already is at roll 2 and pick better getting to roll 2 and pick better doesn't make it any better. (the ability call it out to get to roll twice and get the better of the roll, not 3 times).
but that is up to the gm. i would allow the 3 rolls 1/day it's not that super OP.
it basically would be 3d20 pick the best, but it seems like a terrible waste of a Trait. by the time a skill based character is 5th or 5th level, they should pretty much always pass an INT skill check. And for non skill based characters, those Traits should be spent elsewhere.
I'll also point out that one of the traits you choose is supposed to be from the Adventure path (or a more limited list that is attuned to the adventure for homebrew)
Actually, as written I don't think they interact because they're both identical.
Boil them down.
When you make an Int check, roll twice.
When you make an Int check, roll twice.
Neither of them says that you get an extra roll. They say you can roll twice. If you use one ability, you're already rolling twice, so why use the second ability with the same benefit?
Actually, as written I don't think they interact because they're both identical.
Boil them down.
When you make an Int check, roll twice.
When you make an Int check, roll twice.Neither of them says that you get an extra roll. They say you can roll twice. If you use one ability, you're already rolling twice, so why use the second ability with the same benefit?
Thank you for your answers. I'm not going to stack those traits. I also think that they are two identical traits.
Thanks :)
Both of the abilities allow you to roll twice and take the better result. That means you have to decide before the roll is made to use the ability. There is NO re-rolling involved. Both of the abilities are triggered by rolling a skill check or ability check. They don’t trigger off of each other, they trigger off of the original skill check or ability check. A skill or ability check is a single roll of a d20. If they do stack that would mean you get 3 rolls not 4.
Personally, I don’t see the problem with letting them stack. It only works once per day, and you have to decide to use it before you make the roll. Both abilities only affect skill or ability checks, and in order to be used together it has to be on an intelligence-based roll. So, what it works out to is one a day the character has a 90% chance of rolling higher than a 10 on a knowledge skill. For that the character is blowing the equivalent to a feat. Would you take a feat that once a day when making an INT based check you can roll 3 times and take the better result?
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This has long been an open question: if a feat, item, ability, etc. says you get “two instead of one” does it stack with a different ability with the same effect? Generally things that don’t stack tell you so, like haste and speed weapons. The hyperliteralists who like to parse the language especially fine will even try to draw a distinction between “roll twice and take the better” and “roll an additional die and take the better.”
Personally I agree with Mysterious Stranger and think they should stack. Additively, not multiplicatively. Like when you crit with a lance charge.
So, what it works out to is one a day the character has a 90% chance of rolling higher than a 10 on a knowledge skill.
Math nerd says: 87.5%
For that the character is blowing the equivalent to a feat. Would you take a feat that once a day when making an INT based check you can roll 3 times and take the better result?
If I owned a Codex of the Infinite Planes? You bet!
Sorry I meant 10 or higher, not higher than 10. My math was accurate, but my English not so much.
As long as they're not the same trait type he should be able to take both traits. I don't think the 3d20 idea works by the rules, but I'd allow it. I'd just inform him that it may not be optimal in case he wants to trade them out later on because "they suck", and he didn't realize it at the time.