Anyone else has ideas for spare character?
I'm trying to think what we have here to fill in the party, I don't really think we have much in the way of gaps. We have a Dworg two weapon fighting front-liner and grappler, an Erenlander sword and shield fighter who also happens to be our party's face speaker, a Dwarven defensive tank who can just take all the attacks and aid others with their AC, a goblin Rogue skill monkey support type. We also have an Erenlander Channeler who is completely focused on healing, a Elorg Channeler who has All the Spell Energy and is our intellectual buffer and ranged support, another Elorg on the way who is planning on being our boom stick/ support front-liner, to top it off we have a couple of Familiars running around too.
I'd say we're pretty good on Casters for the most part but more Fighter types never hurt. A big Two handed Fighter specked for damage output is kind of the thing we're looking for. The Sunder part of the idea was just something that occurred to me but just hitting people works fine too.
Also we don't have someone who is completely specked out for ranged combat. With the feats and abilities now days, ranged combat is a good place to be. Wildlander or Fighter. Point Blank shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, point blank master, Clustered Shots
Sorok, Thanx for the advice on melee characters.
I did build a range attacker wildlander shadar, but nightflier said it was not a good idea as most combat will be close quarters. Changed to a two-weapon wildlander instead. Think the idea for character was good, but I messed up on gear and feats.
Looks like damage output is pretty good. What about a combat maneuver specialist? Like a tripper disarmer? Perhaps with a whip?
Of course this is all assuming one one else dies here...which cannot be guaranteed.
If nothing stops the tentacles and the ligate, I see a few will die.
Vikturiun, could you explain a little more.
Hi all,
It seems the situation is dire and we need to coordinate a little to get out of this.
As of round 3, when the tentacles have acted, some of us are being crushed.
I'll summarize the situation:
Duncan free near the legate
Chops free near the legate
Crunk free at the back
Solvi taken at the back
Felina taken at the back
Illiameyl taken dying at the back
Sorok taken at the back
Gilian free at the front
Pebble free at the front.
And some of us haven't taken their actions for round 3.
Round 3
Crunk acted
lliameyl dying
Chops to act
Solvi and Felina already acted (but written as if round 4) and damage rolled for round 4
Duncan to act
Gilian acted healing of Duncan and giving potion to Pebble
Pebble need to act [edit] healed Solvi of 18 HP
Sorok acted (but written as if round 4)
My suggestion would be:
Duncan and Chops should go for Solvi and Felina and try to free them.(the tentacles will be side by side)
Pebble will assist by giving a potion to Solvi
Next round: Round 4
Crunk will help free Sorok, Felina or Solvi
Oh yeah, Vikturiun that's a great idea! Certain weapons have various abilities attached to them in their descriptions; brace, trip, disarm, reach, monk, double, nonlethal, ect. Which means when you use these weapons they give you special bonuses. Example: trip- gives you the ability to avoid being tripped if you fail your attempt by dropping your weapon instead, Disarm- gives you a +2 to your disarm attempt. The whip itself is a pretty terrible weapon at dealing damage, but it has all of the combat maneuver additions and a 15 ft. reach, so you can hang back during a crowded melee fight and just disarm or trip people.
Most of the Combat Maneuver checks have to be done as a standard action but the trip and disarm maneuvers can be done as an attack action instead. If you've ever seen Game Of Thrones, there's a really cool character who uses a whip to great effectiveness time and again.
Most likely going to try to help Sorok since that would free him up to help others and I think I'm right near him. But, also paying attention to what is going on with this key.
In regards to a maneuver guy Illiameyl, Sorok pretty much laid out the advantages of a whip pretty well. I could see two good builds to implement it; the straight numbers version, and the more setting specific one.
The numbers version would probably be an Erenlander Fighter, for the feats. Take Improved Trip, Disarm, Whip Mastery, Improved Whip Mastery, Combat Reflexes if you have a high dex - Imp Mastery allows you to threaten to 10ft, and then a few general feats.
The more interesting setting specific version I think would be an Elfling. They get a +4 Dex and are small, so a dex based build is essential. They have a racial weapon called an Atharak that is basically a blunt version of the 3.5 spiked chain. It can be used against adjacent enemies and out to 10 ft, or used as a double weapon without reach. You could also make use of Inuteks, which are kind of like bolas specific to this setting as well; they allow you to make ranged trip attacks. You could then take the Halfling Raised background which if you took the Mount fighter talent allows you to take a Wogren as your animal companion. Wogren are intelligent animals (Int 6) that can serve as mounts, so they don't require training, can follow complex instructions, and are much tougher than other animals you could choose (such as the wolf). In addition, they have a supernatural sense that allows them to detect invisible spirits such as the Legate's asterax (spirit familiar) automatically. Basically the elfling version ends up more interesting, and better rounded than the human/whip version, though he might not be quite as maxed out in that one area.
These ideas provided here are giving me plenty thinking.
nightflier did ask me when I wanted to join the game to create a wildlander, so I will still make wildlander characters as they die off.
If Illiameyl does by a great miracle survives this, I can adapt her. Else I make another wildlander character similar to Illiameyl.
Seeing there is not a combat style that targets whip type combat, I take the two-weapon fighting combat style, and add normal feats for the whip combat enhancement. So character can be the dismantling, tripping, general interfering of opponents attacks on the party. With shadow walker or similar, character could be a real irritation to the foes on the battle field.
Think this could work?
Just checked for Illiameyl, the whip is out as it is an exotic weapon that shadar are not skilled in, though spiked chain is in for shadar.
I am looking at wildlander two-handed weapon combat style (with dexterous trait) as alternative for two-weapon fighting (with dropping ambidextrous trait too). Two-handed seems to have a few cleaving damaging type of damage. Maybe take greatsword (bonded weapon trait + ancestral legacy trait) and spiked chain (weapon finesse) as melee weapons, instead of the sabres. Spiked chain also comes with disarm and trip special.
Or also drop the ancestral legacy feat path altogether (replace with 2nd dexterous trait), and replace with vital strike feats, to compliment the two-handed feats (cleave feat tree), and keep mobility feat tree to compliment the shadow walker abilities and wildlander terrain bonuses with shadar stealthy shadow skills.
Of course take leaf armour this time to gain benefit of dex for AC.
I can fiddle with ability scores to help improve the situation.
It is a radical change of weapon equipment, what you think of these possible changes?
I now busy with remapping the these feat, traits and weapon changes, and can post basic list here.
Proposed traits, feat and combat style feats:
1: Dexterous Trait x2, Weapon Bond Trait (greatsword), Weapon Finesse (spiked chain, dagger),
2: Power Attack {combat style}
3: Weapon Focus (greatsword)
4: Cleave {favoured class}
5: Mobility
6: Great Cleave {combat style}
7: Spring Attack
8: Furious Focus {favoured class}
9: Vital Strike
10: Improved Sunder {combat style}
I saw this feat, Shadow Strike, wonder if it is of worth to take some where.
Nightflier, just waiting for any forthcoming feedback on Vikturian, such as errors that need correcting, suggested or mandatory changes, etc, or just final approval of the overall character.
Heroic Path: As I stated before, I am just fine with Ironborn as I feel it works for Vikturiun, and accomplishes the basic goal, which is to make a caster less-squishy. Of course, I am open to other suggestions, or a custom path if you have had ideas. You mentioned that you might post one, any ideas in the formulation? I made the suggestion of a self-healing/hard to kill type path, and so here is my mock up of that: Link. Let me know what you think, if it is workable, or what changes it might need. If it is totally unworkable, then I am fine sticking with Ironborn as I mentioned before.
Equipment: I noticed in your posts to other characters that you said any equipment was fine so long as it didn't include magical equipment. What is the reasonable limit for things like special materials, masterwork, improved masterwork, and so on?
I have the feat list worked out to 20th level, containing more vital strike feats, and remainder of two-handed combat style feats. Though can change vital strike feats to something else.
Don't burn yourself out planning too far ahead on your character. This games level up's come at a fairly appropriate pace but I've seen encounters take down 2 PC's while leaving the rest of the group pretty torn up.
Any comments on my latest feat choices for Illiameyl? Is it a better build than current one?
Illiameyl, I'd ask Nightflier if he would be using the 3.5 version or the pathfinder version of the spiked chain. The PF version was a bit nerfed as is was a little overused and abused in 3.5. The basic difference is that in PF, it no longer has reach, which is a very significant difference. If it is the 3.5 version, it makes a very good combat maneuver weapon, especially with imp. trip and disarm, arguably even better than the whip.
Sorok makes a good point about overplanning. With player mortality in this game, and the slow advancing nature of PbP, anything past level 10 is going to be light years away, if you even live that long.
For your feat selection, if Nightflier lets you use the 3.5 version of spiked chain, I'd consider making that your go-to weapon instead of greatsword. Damage is only 2d4, but it can be used against adjacent, and reach targets, and threatens those areas. Take Combat Reflexes and the amount of damage you'll do via attacks of opportunity will more than make up for the reduced weapon die. As you threaten out to a 10ft area with it, anyone who wants to close into melee range with you without having a reach weapon will have to pass through your threatened area.
Take one level of fighter to get the Combat Expertise bonus feat.
1 Weapon Bond: Spiked Chain, Combat Reflexes
2 Power Attack (Combat Style - SpCh is a 2 handed weapon, and is not light, and is therefore PA approved.)
3 Fighter level: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, 3rd level feat, Fighter talent
4
5 Cleave (thanks to favoured class - Cleave with a weapon that threatens adjacent and reach = awesomeness.), Improved Disarm
6 -
7 Imp. Cleave (Combat style), Lunge (-2 to AC to get +5ft reach.) With imp cleave, hit every target within 15 ft! In our present battle, the orcs are lined up in ranks and all adjacent so this build could hit every one of them, plus the legate, with one standard action. You could also choose to trip or disarm on a one by one basis through the whole column. The cleave fest comes to an end if you miss someone, but this build has the advantage of giving you much more useful lower end feats than the Whirlwind attack tree.
Viktuiun, thanx for your comments. See that your recommendation depends largely on 3.5 version of spiked chain. Also you mention fighter level. Are you suggesting wildlander 4 fighter 1?
I was not planning to go for Whirlwind attack, but stop at Spring Attack. Spring attack with sneak attack flanking bonus, and shadow jumping, a spiked chain attack can be devastating.
What I suggested does depend on the 3.5 spiked chain, so you'll have to wait for a ruling from Nightflier on that. Yes, I was suggesting Wildlander 4, Fighter 1.
I've heard that Spring attack can be useful, but usually only when combined with sneak attack, or another way to inflict a high degree of damage, such as spell strike. I have personally never seen it done effectively. Usually it ends up being a case of doing moderate damage every other round when you could have just as easily done good damage every round with a two handed weapon. Of course, just because I've never seen it doesn't mean it can't be done; there are probably other opinions on the matter.
@nightflier
Would you consider the 3.5 version of spiked chain for your game?
I not sure what to do, seeing some of the proposed idea including weapon changes, feats and traits, to that was used in game already. Should I keep Illiameyl, or create another similar character to Illiameyl? Of course depends if Illiameyl survives.
Also check my last ooc question in game thread.
Thanks Nightflier, glad you enjoyed the background. I was making up most of it, so I'm glad it didn't conflict with the back story of your version of the world. The bonus feat will be put to good use, have no doubt.
Any thoughts on the Heroic Path I built? As I said, if it is too out there, Ironborn is fine.
As for equipment, I assume the equipment he has is fine, but I'm curious about adding in things like more special materials (adamantine/mithril sword {do you use the default rule from the setting that adamantine and mithril are the same substance, and get the benifits of both?}) and higher quality items like Improved or Greater improved masterwork, as I forgot they existed.
Other than that, I think the only other question would be how many Spell Talismans can he have crafted?
I been thinking on what you said Vikturiun.
This is the latest version based on 3.5 spiked chain.
1: Dexterous Trait x2, Weapon Bond Trait (spiked chain), Combat Reflexes
2: Power Attack {combat style}
3: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip {fighter 1)
4: -
5: Cleave {favoured class}, Lunge
6: -
7: Great Cleave {combat style}, Mobility
I chose Mobility to aid in better defence while moving through enemy areas for better attacks, though may change.
I could drop the Fighter level and just move up the gaining of the feats.
I'm a little confused by your last statement there. Last I checked, one of the primary reasons for being a fighter was the fact they get the most feats. Unless you meant to gain the Wildlander feats first.
Sorry. Meant to say move the fighter level up in the level number, and get some of the wildlander levels in first.
Though if Illiameyl dies, I may move the Fighter level to be the first level to go with the background idea I have for new character.
The reason I suggested the Fighter level was to get Combat Expertise, as it's a prereq for Imp Trip and Disarm. I would recommend sticking with them. If you drop fighter, you'll lose Combat Expertise, which would put you way back in terms of getting trip and disarm, which is a major point of any spiked chain build.
If you are concerned about AoO's remember that you have a 10ft reach to work with which allows you a buffer zone when fighting.
Your build above is also missing Dodge which is needed to qualify for mobility. Lunge requires a BAB +6, also meaning you couldn't take it at the listed level.
Dodge is a class feature at wildlander 4. I left all the non-option abilities and feats, as these can't be changed when one gets them.
Thanx for picking up the Lunge error. Switched Mobility and Lunge around.
1: Dexterous Trait x2, Weapon Bond Trait (spiked chain), Combat Reflexes
2: Power Attack {combat style}
3: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip {fighter 1)
4: -
5: Cleave {favoured class}, Mobility
6: -
7: Great Cleave {combat style}, Lunge
Let see what is the outcome of round 3. I have no issue making a new character if Illiameyl dies, won't be the first time I played a character and it died in the first round of first encounter. It happens, just part of the story being told.
Basic idea for new character would be a shadar (still like to have a shadar) that was a slave, trained to be a gladiator (first level fighter) and escaped into the forest of shadowland learning to survive in the wilds (wildlander part). As a gladiator learnt to use the spiked chain effectively. Though open to any other possible race that gives a +2 Dex bonus, and possible alternative heroic path to shadow walker.
Suddenly going slow in posting....
We've cast a time stop spell for you Illiameyl. Now we just have to figure out a way to heal you :)
Seems like some serious thinking taking place for such long time stop.
Well tonight I spend some time expanding new character background just in case Illiameyl does not make it.
Thanx Gillian, now she only grappled. Hope to break break next round.
Two possible actions for next round, break the grapple, or draw dagger and stab the tentacle.
It's always slow when weekend comes.
It's always slow when weekend comes.
Duncan. If I'm not wrong, we're waiting for your action for round 4.
Gillian, I see nightflier made Illiameyl's miss chance succeed in avoiding being grabbed by one of the tentacles.
Do you still want to carry out your healing action? Currently Illiameyl is at 1 HP.
I going to post for round 3 and round 4.
Repeat of questions unanswered:
As for equipment, I assume the equipment he has is fine, but I'm curious about adding in things like more special materials (adamantine/mithril sword {do you use the default rule from the setting that adamantine and mithril are the same substance, and get the benefits of both?}) and higher quality items like Improved or Greater improved masterwork, as I forgot they existed.
Other than that, I think the only other question would be how many Spell Talismans can he have crafted?
I am ready to go whenever and however you would like to introduce me.
A well placed Lightning Bolt would do us a lot of good right now.
That would be perfect.
I will wait until battle is over before asking questions on character rebuild.
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Repeat of questions unanswered:
I am ready to go whenever and however you would like to introduce me.As for equipment, I assume the equipment he has is fine, but I'm curious about adding in things like more special materials (adamantine/mithril sword {do you use the default rule from the setting that adamantine and mithril are the same substance, and get the benefits of both?}) and higher quality items like Improved or Greater improved masterwork, as I forgot they existed.
Other than that, I think the only other question would be how many Spell Talismans can he have crafted?
I am keeping adamantine almost non-existent. Character versed in arcane lore should know about it as the Sky Metal, which fell in chunks all over North, at the same time as Izrador Fell. It is completely black, but shiny - not dull-black like an astirax-bound blade - and it deals Bane damage to Shadowspawn even if not enchanted. It can be found as a quest goal.
About mithril - the secret of its forging is not yet known to elves.
Characters in this game are more powerful than norm. The idea is that they were drawn together by fate to resist Izrador. That's why almost all of them have powerful covenant items. New players are handicapped from the start, since they do not have White Bone items - but since you are well versed in the setting, that should be awarded with better starting equipment. So, you can have Lesser Channeler's Pentacle, It is a medallion in the shape of five-pointed star, that works as a Lesser Spell Talisman for five spells of your choice that you can currently cast. It was made by Erunthalion as a gift to you.
nightflier, even though I did say I ask question after the battle, I decided otherwise. I am too impatient to work on rebuilding Illiameyl. Would you consider the 3.5 SRD Spiked Chain to be used in your game?
If anyone has alternative ideas for the posted round 3 and 4, please tell me so I can make the changes.
Understood about the special materials.
While he is more than happy to accept the Pentacle from Erunthalion, I was asking specifically because Vukturiun also has the feat to make Lesser Spell Talisman's himself (level 4 Channeler bonus feat). May he have made a few himself as well, or would Erunthalion not have bothered with the gift if he new Vikturiun could do it himself, leaving him with only the ones he made himself, or, finally, should he reassign the feat?
A well placed Lightning Bolt would do us a lot of good right now.
I'd love to oblige. If and when I appear, I can put that quickly into effect.
Just a question, is it normal for this game to have battles without encounter maps?
Gillian, I see nightflier made Illiameyl's miss chance succeed in avoiding being grabbed by one of the tentacles.
Do you still want to carry out your healing action? Currently Illiameyl is at 1 HP.
I going to post for round 3 and round 4.
Yes. You need HP.
I will add the 17 HP after your turn in the 4th round.
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Understood about the special materials.
While he is more than happy to accept the Pentacle from Erunthalion, I was asking specifically because Vukturiun also has the feat to make Lesser Spell Talisman's himself (level 4 Channeler bonus feat). May he have made a few himself as well, or would Erunthalion not have bothered with the gift if he new Vikturiun could do it himself, leaving him with only the ones he made himself, or, finally, should he reassign the feat?
I prefer to have magic items created in-game. So, you can make them once you enter the play. I will introduce you as soon as the this round ends.
Alright. Ready and waiting.