Abundant Step vs Dimension Door

There are several differences between Dimension Door and Abundant Step, such as the monk not being able to take anyone with them and that it is a move action to use it.

What would the point be to changing it to a move action if the monk could not also take a standard action afterward?

Why couldn't he use a standard action afterward?

Dimension Door states that you cannot take any other actions until your next turn after using the spell.

After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn.

Oh, well I'll be darned, it does. I wonder why.

Well, to try and be a little helpful, as a GM I would waive this part of the spell for the purpose of Abundant Step. It seems to run counter to the spirit of the ability. On the other hand, though, the monk can still use it as a fleeing ability.

"I punch him in the nose and disappear!"

Sorry I can't help more.

Well, to try and be a little helpful, as a GM I would waive this part of the spell for the purpose of Abundant Step. It seems to run counter to the spirit of the ability. On the other hand, though, the monk can still use it as a fleeing ability.

"I punch him in the nose and disappear!"

Sorry I can't help more.

Tis why I am hoping that one of those marvelous staff members at Paizo take a look at this and provide some guidance/ruling.

From what I've heard, in 2E (some older edition of D&D, I think it was 2E), the two spells Haste and Dimension Door could interact in a particularly game-breaking fashion if you were allowed to take actions after you Dimension Doored. So in that edition, Dimension Door got the caveat that denied you further actions until the start of your next turn.

Which is fine for that edition, but when they made the transition to 3E, they changed Haste to where the game-breaking effect no longer took place. And forgot to allow Dimension Door to allow further actions. Then 3.5 came out, and they still kept the old caveat for no good reason. Then the playtesting for Pathfinder started and I made sure to post a thread or two about this specific problem (both in the Alpha and Beta playtests), and then the problem still wasn't addressed.

What would the point be to changing it to a move action if the monk could not also take a standard action afterward ?

You can't take actions in 3.5 after DDing either, so why should you with Monk AS?

Mistwalker wrote:

What would the point be to changing it to a move action if the monk could not also take a standard action afterward ?

You can't take actions in 3.5 after DDing either, so why should you with Monk AS?

Dimension Door is a standard action. Abundant Step is a move action. Why the difference if you can't do anything else after the monk takes the step?

I have a problem with the idea that the only reason is so that the monk can do a single attack and then flee.

James Risner wrote:

Mistwalker wrote:

What would the point be to changing it to a move action if the monk could not also take a standard action afterward ?

You can't take actions in 3.5 after DDing either, so why should you with Monk AS?

Dimension Door is a standard action. Abundant Step is a move action. Why the difference if you can't do anything else after the monk takes the step?

I have a problem with the idea that the only reason is so that the monk can do a single attack and then flee.

Because you could take a Standard Action and then AS away. With the spell, casting is your standard action for that round.

What you can't do is perform any Swift, Immediate or Free actions until the start of your next turn after you AS or DD.

From what I've heard, in 2E (some older edition of D&D, I think it was 2E), the two spells Haste and Dimension Door could interact in a particularly game-breaking fashion if you were allowed to take actions after you Dimension Doored. So in that edition, Dimension Door got the caveat that denied you further actions until the start of your next turn.

Which is fine for that edition, but when they made the transition to 3E, they changed Haste to where the game-breaking effect no longer took place. And forgot to allow Dimension Door to allow further actions. Then 3.5 came out, and they still kept the old caveat for no good reason. Then the playtesting for Pathfinder started and I made sure to post a thread or two about this specific problem (both in the Alpha and Beta playtests), and then the problem still wasn't addressed.

QFT

I'd like to hear how the designers feel about this now. As in, if you were to write the spell from scratch as things are in Pathfinder, would you still have this added restriction?

My theory is that the designers forgot to change the description for Abundant Step to allow a standard attack :P

As-is, it's still a solid escape tool though.

My theory is that the designers forgot to change the description for Abundant Step to allow a standard attack :P

As-is, it's still a solid escape tool though.

In 3.5 from the Complete Warrior there was a tactical feat - Sun School, which allowed the monk to make a single attack at his highest bonus (ie a Standard Action) after an Abundant Step. From what I have seen, much of the changes to Pathfinder have been to include much of the extra material from 3.5 that was in the additional books straight into the base classes. This seems to be precisely that, and it seems reasonable by intent that the goal of this change was to allow for a standard action after the ddoor. However, I too would want to see a more official post on this.