Eidolon advice for synthesisthe summoner


Advice


So I am making my very first summoner and wanted to make a synthesist. I am starting at level 5 and am going full summoner levels as a half-elf. I was wondering if anyone had build suggestions, but more importantly I was wondering if natural weapons or manufactured weapons would be the way to go for my Eidolon if heverything is going for a tanky/damage based build.


Synthesist is super wonky for a first-summoner. Alot of rules of what stays and what doesn't upon the merger gear-wise.

Manufactured weapon is probably the better option because you're maximizing total attacks as well as going with a shield to maximize defense. Remember not to be holding/carrying the weapons upon merging/summoning because they'll just meld into that form and you won't be able to access them.

Either way you have 4 max natural weapon attacks at 5th level.

Get limbs(arms) evolution. Chose serpentise base so you'll have a bite attack(with an additional 5ft reach) And a tail slap for free. Then get flight + wing buffet evolutions (as you'll qualify for those at 5th level).

You'll have 2 wing attacks 1 bite and one tail attack.

The wings are secondary as well as the tail. So the bite is your only primary. So all the secondary will be at -5.

If you get a manufactured weapon you'll have 1 attack (that'll eventually become iterative.) And then 4 attacks considered now secondary.

If you want defense on top of that grab a shield. Otherwise make the manufactured weapon a 2h weapon.

If you want to annoy your DM dip 1 level into barbarian just so you can rage because the extra morale bonuses are fun and work with this. Either way its a incredibly powerful archetype, and you might want to do some research on it to make sure you got all the rules in order as there's alot of stuff that people overlook when making them. (like extra evolution is disallowed for this because the eidolon class feature is replaced and you instead get something called "fused eidolon").

Edit: Eidolon gets no skills/feats of its own so i believe this means you're stuck at -5 for the secondary natural attacks, so you'll need to get the multiattack feat yourself.


ranmyaku262 wrote:

Synthesist is super wonky for a first-summoner. Alot of rules of what stays and what doesn't upon the merger gear-wise.

Manufactured weapon is probably the better option because you're maximizing total attacks as well as going with a shield to maximize defense. Remember not to be holding/carrying the weapons upon merging/summoning because they'll just meld into that form and you won't be able to access them.

Either way you have 4 max natural weapon attacks at 5th level.

Get limbs(arms) evolution. Chose serpentise base so you'll have a bite attack(with an additional 5ft reach) And a tail slap for free. Then get flight + wing buffet evolutions (as you'll qualify for those at 5th level).

You'll have 2 wing attacks 1 bite and one tail attack.

The wings are secondary as well as the tail. So the bite is your only primary. So all the secondary will be at -5.

If you get a manufactured weapon you'll have 1 attack (that'll eventually become iterative.) And then 4 attacks considered now secondary.

If you want defense on top of that grab a shield. Otherwise make the manufactured weapon a 2h weapon.

If you want to annoy your DM dip 1 level into barbarian just so you can rage because the extra morale bonuses are fun and work with this. Either way its a incredibly powerful archetype, and you might want to do some research on it to make sure you got all the rules in order as there's alot of stuff that people overlook when making them. (like extra evolution is disallowed for this because the eidolon class feature is replaced and you instead get something called "fused eidolon").

Edit: Eidolon gets no skills/feats of its own so i believe this means you're stuck at -5 for the secondary natural attacks, so you'll need to get the multiattack feat yourself.

Thank you for your reply. I was thinking of going with the manufactured weapon on a bipedal character with extra arms to hold a shield while still utilizing the great sword.

Also, after some reading, I found evidence that suggests that Extra Evolution is allowed for Synthesists due to the "In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner's normal eidolon ability" portion of the archetype. You still have eidolon class feature, it is just slightly modified.

where I found said evidence: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m8o8&page=7?Ultimate-Magic-Errata#334


Atyres wrote:
ranmyaku262 wrote:

Synthesist is super wonky for a first-summoner. Alot of rules of what stays and what doesn't upon the merger gear-wise.

Manufactured weapon is probably the better option because you're maximizing total attacks as well as going with a shield to maximize defense. Remember not to be holding/carrying the weapons upon merging/summoning because they'll just meld into that form and you won't be able to access them.

Either way you have 4 max natural weapon attacks at 5th level.

Get limbs(arms) evolution. Chose serpentise base so you'll have a bite attack(with an additional 5ft reach) And a tail slap for free. Then get flight + wing buffet evolutions (as you'll qualify for those at 5th level).

You'll have 2 wing attacks 1 bite and one tail attack.

The wings are secondary as well as the tail. So the bite is your only primary. So all the secondary will be at -5.

If you get a manufactured weapon you'll have 1 attack (that'll eventually become iterative.) And then 4 attacks considered now secondary.

If you want defense on top of that grab a shield. Otherwise make the manufactured weapon a 2h weapon.

If you want to annoy your DM dip 1 level into barbarian just so you can rage because the extra morale bonuses are fun and work with this. Either way its a incredibly powerful archetype, and you might want to do some research on it to make sure you got all the rules in order as there's alot of stuff that people overlook when making them. (like extra evolution is disallowed for this because the eidolon class feature is replaced and you instead get something called "fused eidolon").

Edit: Eidolon gets no skills/feats of its own so i believe this means you're stuck at -5 for the secondary natural attacks, so you'll need to get the multiattack feat yourself.

Thank you for your reply. I was thinking of going with the manufactured weapon on a bipedal character with extra arms to hold a shield while still utilizing the great sword.

Also, after some reading, I found...

Ah ok. I've seen a large amount of back and forth on that one and the general consensus was "works like" doesn't mean "counts as".

Extra arms also work in this case as you'll still have access to those claws as in thoery the arms without claws would be used to hold the sword.

Read this if you haven't:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mi13&page=last?One-Synthesist-Summoner-Thr ead-to-rule-them-all

Its a long read, but search through this anytime you have a question as this class has been beaten into the ground regarding how it works and what is allowed. Its about 20 pages (last entry in Feb 4 2015).

The class hasn't gotten much FAQ thanks to being both PFS banned and many DMs banning it. Which humorously enough its not the most overpowered thing in any specific field, but it can be built with little to no real weaknesses.

Also if i'm not mistaken outside of spellcasting nothing disallows your eidolon from wearing armor as long as its donned post-merge (though it may need to be appropriately sized should you be large which could prove troublesome).

Dark Archive

You have a ton of choices with this. I can't tell you what's 'best' for the build, as you can take it in whatever direction you want. I can, however, share some basic pointers and go over advantages and disadvantages of combat styles!

General Advice
- Don't dump physical stats! It's a trap. You need 13 strength for Power Attack, and having 7 Con WILL get you killed during that unfortunate time you're caught with your pants down. 13 strength and 12 in Con and Dex bare minimum mean you're not wet tissue paper when your Eidolon is banished.
- Start with a wand of Lesser Rejuvenate Eidolon. Your super suit's health counts as temp HP, meaning this is the only reliable way to repair it. Hell, have LRE on your spells KNOWN just in case you lose the wand.
- While you're at it, learn the Summon Eidolon spell and try to keep at least one 2nd level slot open throughout the day. It's your "get out of sucky situation" card.
- Don't worry about whether or not you can wear armor. Mage Armor and your natural armor progression will be fine early on, and casting Shield right before fights makes the plate wearers envious. If your AC ever looks low, take in a bit of the Natural Armor evolution every now and then. Also note that you start getting a free Shield bonus to AC from archetype features by 5th level, so you don't need to carry one around.
- You have the spare points, don't neglect your Intelligence. Summoners have access to a great list of skills but that 2+Int per level was clearly balanced around the Summoner and a separate Eidolon pooling their skill points into one effective whole. You lack that benefit.
- Always take Primary natural attacks when you can. More accuracy, full (if not x1.5) strength mod to damage.

Base Form
- Biped is generally the best. Great strength, 2 claws, and it has hands to use things.
- Quadruped is the foundation of those pouncing death beasts that rustle people's jimmies. Maximum DPS potential with Pounce.
- Serpentine is only good if you want to focus on Grab and Constrict. And even then, it sits somewhere between sub par and outright bad until you get Large Size at level 8.
- Aquatic is rarely mentioned, but it has the benefit of being the only 16 Strength base form with a single natural attack.

Combat Styles
- Manufactured weapons work best if you want a single big weapon that deals good damage on a hit. They also have a wide variety of crit damage and crit range, while natural weapons are mostly stuck at 20/x2. Note that you'll likely want to evolve Large and maybe Huge size down the road. Plan your purchases accordingly. A Large sized 2handed weapon is perfect for a Large character, and a Huge character can use it at a mere -2 penalty to hit. Plus, they can still wield it in both hands for more damage!
- Multiple Natural weapons work well if you want to either stack them up (Pounce <3) and you're alright putting out Tiger Companion levels of damage that make unoptimized Fighters wallow in regret. Damage Reduction is annoying, but eventually you can power through it with raw damage per hit.
- You can have a single natural attack and focus on that, such as taking a Bite and giving it Reach, Trip, Grab, and maybe Poison. It pairs wonderfully with Combat Reflexes. This is pretty much the One True Way to go if you're Serpentine.
- You can make a multi-armed form that wields as many manufactured weapons as you can afford Arms evolutions, but enchanting them all can become prohibitively expensive. Damage Reduction shuts this one down HARD.
- You can have the best of all words, technically, if you evolve some extra Arms and hold onto a nice 2handed weapon and make several secondary natural attacks later on. (Thanks, APG Summoner and it's more forgiving Natural Attacks rules!)

The Exchange

Wrong. You're allowed to dump physical stats(except con), I'd advice against con, because...once your suit goes off(and if it does it probably means you're already in trouble) - you're really screwed.

24 h in your eid suit - pull an all nighter(I've gone through 48h on 4h of sleep - I'm sure people on forums have done worse), and you qualify for power attack.

Max damage is by quadped, nat attack style via pounce.Even if DR is a problem, syns can get pretty amazing str scores. I generally look at biped, without extra arms, manufactured weapons, because I don't want to get kicked out of every town I go into while in my syn suit.

Syn guide:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qr9r?Getting-into-Someone-Elses-Skin-N-Jollys- mini

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