Question to LM: is there a Zon-Kuthon-like deity in this world with similar followers?
Question to all: I just realized there would be Mythic stuff here. What path did you folks see your character following?
I've toyed with playing an Unfettered Eidelon, what would you think of that?
Basically, it would be an Eidelon without the squishy summoner bit. So it'd be underpowered compared to everyone else. To compensate, I would suggest allowing a class level at any level the eidelon doesn't get a hit die. So basically at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20th levels, in addition to gaining the normal Eidelon bits at that level, gaining a class level from a class (probably not a spellcasting class, LOL).
So, able to be healed by others with normal spells, dies like a normal critter, etc. Precedent is from Bestiary IV which has an unfettered eidelon.
Question to LM: is there a Zon-Kuthon-like deity in this world with similar followers?
Question to all: I just realized there would be Mythic stuff here. What path did you folks see your character following?
Archmage, maybe. I need to look at the mythic stuff again.
Felicity was planning on dual-pathing. Guardian/Archemage.
I was looking at Champion.
Not going for anything specific, I'm just roleplaying a jack of all trades melee character who studies everything.
A scholar can use every knowledge skill untrained, and can pick up magic abilities, barbarian ablities, fighter abilities, ranger abilities. You name it, he can pick up abilities from every class, making him a true Jack-of-all trades. And I know what some people are going to say, and I've heard it before, Jack-of-all trades, master of none.
Question to LM: is there a Zon-Kuthon-like deity in this world with similar followers?
That's a good question, Kalli. Let me take a little time to research and get back to you.
EDIT: A quick follow-up: do you want to worship him in his original form, or as the Midnight Lord (aka Marilyn Manson)?
I might just dual path Archmage and Heirophant, picking up some of the Magister Feats so I can use some of the abilities from both.
I've toyed with playing an Unfettered Eidelon, what would you think of that?
Basically, it would be an Eidelon without the squishy summoner bit. So it'd be underpowered compared to everyone else. To compensate, I would suggest allowing a class level at any level the eidelon doesn't get a hit die. So basically at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20th levels, in addition to gaining the normal Eidelon bits at that level, gaining a class level from a class (probably not a spellcasting class, LOL).
So, able to be healed by others with normal spells, dies like a normal critter, etc. Precedent is from Bestiary IV which has an unfettered eidelon.
I've never heard of that archetype before, although I may have seen it, but overlooked it for some reason. Can you send me a link so I can take a look at it?
Not going for anything specific, I'm just roleplaying a jack of all trades melee character who studies everything.
A scholar can use every knowledge skill untrained, and can pick up magic abilities, barbarian ablities, fighter abilities, ranger abilities. You name it, he can pick up abilities from every class, making him a true Jack-of-all trades. And I know what some people are going to say, and I've heard it before, Jack-of-all trades, master of none.
I actually like the jack-of-all-trades playstyle; sometimes you almost have to have in the party for those days when someone turns up missing (or dead). As far as mythic paths, might I make a suggestion? For the most part, you'll have to pick one path to go down (think of it as a required 'super' prestige class), and I think that Champion or Trickster might work best. Champion is rather self-explanitory. However, the Trickster path offers you as much, if not more versatility for your scholar as the class itself.
If you have access the Mythic Adventures book, take a look in there. Otherwise, both paths are listed on the pfsrd site, just scroll down the left side to the mythic breakout and look there.
I've never heard of that archetype before, although I may have seen it, but overlooked it for some reason. Can you send me a link so I can take a look at it?I've toyed with playing an Unfettered Eidelon, what would you think of that?
Basically, it would be an Eidelon without the squishy summoner bit. So it'd be underpowered compared to everyone else. To compensate, I would suggest allowing a class level at any level the eidelon doesn't get a hit die. So basically at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20th levels, in addition to gaining the normal Eidelon bits at that level, gaining a class level from a class (probably not a spellcasting class, LOL).
So, able to be healed by others with normal spells, dies like a normal critter, etc. Precedent is from Bestiary IV which has an unfettered eidelon.
Question to LM: is there a Zon-Kuthon-like deity in this world with similar followers?
That's a good question, Kalli. Let me take a little time to research and get back to you.
EDIT: A quick follow-up: do you want to worship him in his original form, or as the Midnight Lord (aka Marilyn Manson)?
Kalli:
The closest analogue to Zon-Kuthon that I have found (so far), is an minor orc god named Negral. Given a lot of the exposition that I have read in the Frog God game supplements, I would be willing to allow a direct conversion of Zon-Kuthon. However, I have to ask: what alignment are you thinking of playing?
I've toyed with playing an Unfettered Eidelon, what would you think of that?
Basically, it would be an Eidelon without the squishy summoner bit. So it'd be underpowered compared to everyone else. To compensate, I would suggest allowing a class level at any level the eidelon doesn't get a hit die. So basically at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20th levels, in addition to gaining the normal Eidelon bits at that level, gaining a class level from a class (probably not a spellcasting class, LOL).
So, able to be healed by others with normal spells, dies like a normal critter, etc. Precedent is from Bestiary IV which has an unfettered eidelon.
OK, so if I'm reading this right (correct me if I'm wrong), you would play a summoner (as far as casting spells goes), but you would have, essentially, an animal companion (ala the druid), that would level up using the eidolon evolution chart, but not be tied to you directly? Does that sound about right?
Yeah, I'd go champion.
Alignment is less of a factor.
The synthesist's background involves being conceived during a Joymaking ceremony and born from one of the Joyful Things. Those are related to the followers of Zon-Kuthon.
Now, raised in a nation that follows that god (Nidal in Golarion), she'd be into experiencing and giving pain. That's probably LE. To temper that, she realizes that others (read non-Kuthites) just aren't into it as much so she refrains from torturing them. Could be LN, or anything really. It's more the shadow aspect of ZK that is dominant here as she'd be a fetchling and grab some of those shadow-related evolutions. (So if there is a Shadow-god out there, that could work too)
Query: Would you allow the synthesist and shadow caller archetypes to be used together (even though by RAW it's not)? The only "change" to the eidolon that the shadow caller does is make it form out of their shadow rather than create a glowing symbol.
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The android monk would have only had a loose afiliation with ZK in that she was curious how others (read: living beings) feel pain. That would likely need to be reworked a bit to avoid the evil. Perhaps once she learned that the details behind their experience of pain, she would come to the understanding that it was unpleasant and not something to be forced on the living.
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EDIT: The Synthesist would probably go Trickster or Marshal as a mythic path.
Alignment is less of a factor.
The synthesist's background involves being conceived during a Joymaking ceremony and born from one of the Joyful Things. Those are related to the followers of Zon-Kuthon.
Now, raised in a nation that follows that god (Nidal in Golarion), she'd be into experiencing and giving pain. That's probably LE. To temper that, she realizes that others (read non-Kuthites) just aren't into it as much so she refrains from torturing them. Could be LN, or anything really. It's more the shadow aspect of ZK that is dominant here as she'd be a fetchling and grab some of those shadow-related evolutions. (So if there is a Shadow-god out there, that could work too)
Query: Would you allow the synthesist and shadow caller archetypes to be used together (even though by RAW it's not)? The only "change" to the eidolon that the shadow caller does is make it form out of their shadow rather than create a glowing symbol.
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OK so here is my ruling on that: Using RAW, it states that the synthesist's eidolon is removed. In fact, it isn't, technically. It simply no longer occupies a different square from the summoner. Therefore, you could use both archetypes without issue, at least in my campaign.
As for worshipping Marilyn Manson...ahem, I mean ZK, I am okay with a LN alignment. Pain is not inherently evil, although the gawd himself is a frickin' nut job. It's like saying Marilyn is evil, simply because he wears breast implants. Just try to keep your need for pain on the down low, however. Squishies tend to get creeped out when one breaks out the cat-o-nine-tails...
OK, so if I'm reading this right (correct me if I'm wrong), you would play a summoner (as far as casting spells goes), but you would have, essentially, an animal companion (ala the druid), that would level up using the eidolon evolution chart, but not be tied to you directly? Does that sound about right?I've toyed with playing an Unfettered Eidelon, what would you think of that?
Basically, it would be an Eidelon without the squishy summoner bit. So it'd be underpowered compared to everyone else. To compensate, I would suggest allowing a class level at any level the eidelon doesn't get a hit die. So basically at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20th levels, in addition to gaining the normal Eidelon bits at that level, gaining a class level from a class (probably not a spellcasting class, LOL).
So, able to be healed by others with normal spells, dies like a normal critter, etc. Precedent is from Bestiary IV which has an unfettered eidelon.
LOL, not quite. What I meant was, I'd play a summoner, without the summoner. Just the Eidelon, all by himself. Use the Eidelon advancement table for BAB, abilities, etc. Basically, it would be a half a class. To balance it out, give it 5 class levels in another class spread out over 20 levels. So, a PC unfettered eidelon.
So, no spellcasting at all, just the eidelon and his evolutions. With a few class levels scattered around to balance out the loss of a casting summoner.
This is Kalli's Synthesist. Just need to finish up a few things (feats, equipment, etc.)
Questions:
- Do we start with average gold?
- Do you allow drawbacks?
And this is the synthesized form.
OK, so if I'm reading this right (correct me if I'm wrong), you would play a summoner (as far as casting spells goes), but you would have, essentially, an animal companion (ala the druid), that would level up using the eidolon evolution chart, but not be tied to you directly? Does that sound about right?I've toyed with playing an Unfettered Eidelon, what would you think of that?
Basically, it would be an Eidelon without the squishy summoner bit. So it'd be underpowered compared to everyone else. To compensate, I would suggest allowing a class level at any level the eidelon doesn't get a hit die. So basically at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20th levels, in addition to gaining the normal Eidelon bits at that level, gaining a class level from a class (probably not a spellcasting class, LOL).
So, able to be healed by others with normal spells, dies like a normal critter, etc. Precedent is from Bestiary IV which has an unfettered eidelon.
LOL, not quite. What I meant was, I'd play a summoner, without the summoner. Just the Eidelon, all by himself. Use the Eidelon advancement table for BAB, abilities, etc. Basically, it would be a half a class. To balance it out, give it 5 class levels in another class spread out over 20 levels. So, a PC unfettered eidelon.
So, no spellcasting at all, just the eidelon and his evolutions. With a few class levels scattered around to balance out the loss of a casting summoner.
That's...rather interesting. So you're okay with essentially playing at a disadvantage, compared to everyone else?
This is Kalli's Synthesist. Just need to finish up a few things (feats, equipment, etc.)
Questions:
- Do we start with average gold?
- Do you allow drawbacks?
Average gold. What did you have in mind for drawbacks?
That's...rather interesting. So you're okay with essentially playing at a disadvantage, compared to everyone else?
Yep, although there's a lot of advantages too. The only character that can, with a spell, completely alter their body and powers. Granted, have to do it with UMD and a scroll. Or, at level up.
So basically, use the Eidelon table for the most part, and at those levels where they don't get a hit die, also gain a level in a class. So, it would work like this :
Level 1 : 1st Level Eidelon (1 EIdelon HD)
Level 2 : 2nd Level Eidelon (2 Eidleon HD)
Level 3 : 3rd Level Eidelon (3 Eidelon HD)
Level 4 : 4th Level Eidelon (3 Eidelon HD + 1 HD from Class)
Level 5 : 5th Level Eidelon (4 Eidelon HD + 1 HD from Class)
Level 6 : 6th Level Eidelon (5 Eidelon HD + 1 HD from Class)
Level 7 : 7th Level Eidelon (6 Eidelon HD + 1 HD from Class)
Level 8 : 8th Level Eidelon (6 Eidelon HD + 2 HD from Class)
and so on...
I'm not sure what class to go with at 4th, probably will depend on what the party is doing and going through at the time.
The racial stats would be based off the eidelon base form. Just like a Monster PC. I'll work up a character for your approval, along with a background.
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To be honest I have a concept in mind I don't know what way to build him.
It would be someone obsessed with lycanthrope (I know I might have spelled it wrong.). The obsession would sprout from some reason ill think up. But he would search for a way to turn himself into one, a natural not an afflicted. Now I'm thinking I can use a transmuter wizard and go gish, transforming into what he veiws a were creature to be with one of the transformation spells.
The other option is druid with the shape shifting.
Anyone got some ideas to help me out.
110 gold, wow, dice roller likes me today.
That's...rather interesting. So you're okay with essentially playing at a disadvantage, compared to everyone else?Yep, although there's a lot of advantages too. The only character that can, with a spell, completely alter their body and powers. Granted, have to do it with UMD and a scroll. Or, at level up.
So basically, use the Eidelon table for the most part, and at those levels where they don't get a hit die, also gain a level in a class. So, it would work like this :
Level 1 : 1st Level Eidelon (1 EIdelon HD)
Level 2 : 2nd Level Eidelon (2 Eidleon HD)
Level 3 : 3rd Level Eidelon (3 Eidelon HD)
Level 4 : 4th Level Eidelon (3 Eidelon HD + 1 HD from Class)
Level 5 : 5th Level Eidelon (4 Eidelon HD + 1 HD from Class)
Level 6 : 6th Level Eidelon (5 Eidelon HD + 1 HD from Class)
Level 7 : 7th Level Eidelon (6 Eidelon HD + 1 HD from Class)
Level 8 : 8th Level Eidelon (6 Eidelon HD + 2 HD from Class)
and so on...I'm not sure what class to go with at 4th, probably will depend on what the party is doing and going through at the time.
The racial stats would be based off the eidelon base form. Just like a Monster PC. I'll work up a character for your approval, along with a background.
Go ahead and make the build (I assume that you are already), but I want to make sure that I understand this properly before we go on. If I get any of this wrong, just tell me (it's been a slow day...):
- *You are playing an eidolon (JUST an eidolon), with no master summoner
*You're starting off at 1st level, with a base form and 8 EP, instead of the normal 3 for 1st level
*You level up just as a standard eidolon would (with the caveat of the extra 5 EP to start), and...
*...you're only going to take 5 class levels over the course of the campaign, the class to be determined later.
Sound about right?
Ok, Introducing Shi'Vatha.
Quadruped Base Form (Small)
Speed 40 ft.
Darkvision
AC +2 natural armor
Saves Fort (good), Ref (good), Will (bad)
Attack bite (1d4)
Ability Score Modifiers
Str +0
Dex +6
Con +0
Int -4
Wis 10
Cha 11
Free Evolutions bite, limbs (legs) (2)
Evolution Pool (3)
Limbs (Arms) (Becomes 'Taur) (1)
Racial Bonus : Disable Device (1)
Racial Bonus : Perception (1)
Stats : 14/14/14/14/10/10 (20 pt buy, 5/5/5/5/0/0)
Str : 14 (14 + 0)
Dex : 20 (14 + 6)
Con : 14 (14 + 0)
Int : 10 (14 - 4)
Wis : 10 (10 + 0)
Cha : 10 (10 + 0)
Fort : 4
Reflex : 7
Will : 0
Offense : Bite +8 (1d4+2)
Defense : AC 20 : (10 + 5 Dex + 2 Natural Armor + 2 Leather Armor + 1 Size)
Class Skills : Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (Planes), Perception, Sense Motive, Stealth, Disable Device, Use Magic Device, Knowledge (Religion), Acrobatics
Skills (6 pts)
Acrobatics : 9 (1 Rank + 5 Dex + 3 Class)
Bluff : +0
Craft : +0
Disable Device : 17 (1 Rank + 5 Dex + 3 Class + 8 Racial)
Knowledge (Planes) :
Knowledge (Religion) : 4 (1 Rank + 3 Class)
Perception : 12 (1 Rank + 0 Stat + 3 Class + 8 Racial)
Sense Motive : +0
Stealth : 13 (1 Rank + 5 Stat + 3 Class + 4 Size)
Use Magic Device : 4 (1 Rank + 0 Stat + 3 Class)
Equipment :
Leather Taur Barding (20 gp, +2 AC, +6 Max Dex, ACP 0) 7.5 Lbs
MW Backpack (50 gp) 1 lb
Thieves Tools (30) 1 lb
10 gp cash
Feats : Weapon Finesse
Background Traits :
Overprotective (Drawback)
Hard-to-Kill (Combat)
Sacred Touch (Faith)
Adopted (Aasimar - Clergy Member)
Creature Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
Darkvision 60 feet.
Unlike most living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don't work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep
I'll post the background next...
Go ahead and make the build (I assume that you are already), but I want to make sure that I understand this properly before we go on. If I get any of this wrong, just tell me (it's been a slow day...):*You are playing an eidolon (JUST an eidolon), with no master summoner
*You're starting off at 1st level, with a base form and 8 EP, instead of the normal 3 for 1st level
*You level up just as a standard eidolon would (with the caveat of the extra 5 EP to start), and...
*...you're only going to take 5 class levels over the course of the campaign, the class to be determined later.Sound about right?
Well, I wasn't adding 5 EP at 1st level, if you want to give me that, I won't say no. :) But wasn't planning on it (see build above).
The 5 class levels would be, I thought, in addition to a level of eidelon, to replace the lost HD that the eidelon loses at those levels. For example, at 4th level, the base eidelon gains only 2 evolution points and 1 extra attack. So, at 4th level, if I took, say, Fighter, I'd gain fighter hit die (D10), Fighter saves, Fighter 1st level feat, 2 evo points, and 1 extra attack. The only reason I want the class levels, honestly, is that without them the hp just falls too far behind at mid levels, and at high levels is so low that he'd be squished all the time.
What I would like to do (if you're ok with it) is take the half-elf summoner favored class ability as a favored class ability for Eidelon levels (1-3, 5-7, etc) which is to add 1/4 EP to evolution pool. If that's not ok, then I'll just do a skill point or hit point.
I see, mdt. I was looking at the page in the bestiary for the unfettered eidolon and it stated that the creature started with a base form and 8 EP. To be honest, I''m a little leery of giving away those extra 5 points, so your build (so far) looks fine.
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Shi'Vatha was the valiant eidelon of Casarina Methaila, a valiant Aasimar Summoner Paladin of Muir. Shi'Vatha was not as strong as most eidelon's, due to his summoner's primary path being that of a Paladin, however, he was an excellent scout, his small feline form allowing him to sneak through places Casarina could not and ferret out information for her.
The two were quite the well known pair in the Church of Muir, and got many of the most dangerous assignments. It was on one such assignment that the team met a horrible ending of their pact. Casarina had been tasked with investigating the sudden betrayal by a priest of his flock, and subsequent sacrificing of many of them to some unknown entity.
The pair did as they normally did, Shi'Vatha scouting ahead (although close enough not to lose his life force from being too far separated from his partner), and Casarina dispatching foes with the occasional assistance from Shi'Vatha. Unfortunately, they fell into a trap devised by those who had turned the priest. The two were captured, and taken to an evil cave where blood was spilled in a horrifying magical rite. Casarina's mind was broken with fell magic, and her former good and right nature turned to chaos and evil. Casarina awakened an anti-paladin summoner.
The ritual did not go as expected though, for it had not been performed on someone who was both a Paladin and Summoner before. Casarina's tie to Shi'Vatha was rent assunder, both gaining a burning rune on their forehead as the bond was rent. Casarina could not summon a new eidelon, and Shi'Vatha could not return to his home.
Casarina was afraid to kill her former ally, for fear her ability to summon, or use summoner magic, would also be destroyed permanently. So she locked the catlike eidelon in a steel cage and tortured it when bored.
After several months of such treatment, amazingly, Shi'Vatha's shattered mind began to reform, the madness induced by the destruction of his bond receding, and his original good and upright nature returning. Finding himself suddenly able to control his own evolution, he waited for Casarina to depart on a murder spree, and evolved an upper torso, turning himself into a taur. Using his newfound hands and skills, he used a bent nail from the wooden floor of his cell to pick the lock and flee back to the church to tell them what had happened.
I see, mdt. I was looking at the page in the bestiary for the unfettered eidolon and it stated that the creature started with a base form and 8 EP. To be honest, I''m a little leery of giving away those extra 5 points, so your build (so far) looks fine.
Yeah, that's for the bestiary entry, it's really designed as an enemy, not a PC. For a PC, I think following the base eidelon table, but adding in a few free class levels to bump the HD back up again, works much better.
The bestiary entry actually says the 8 points are including the 5 from the base form. So it ends up as base form +3 ep to spend on a very limited list.
@met: we get average gold for class (whatever that may be for this)
Edit to fix 'autocorrect'
Yeah, I noticed that after I posted the build. I assume it's 70gp for average summoner gold. I'll just drop the MW backpack and take a regular backpack and should be fine.
Fixed Link (I hope) to picture
Without the wings... for now... :)
It's going to be dangerous and difficult for you. No raise dead, able to be dismissed or banished, affected by protection vs and magic circle vs, etc.
Yep, means I have to play smart, not dumb.
You can still make ranged attacks, and weapon attacks, you just can't make bodily contact. So alchemist fire, bows, reach weapons, all work.
Also, if you attack a blocked creature, the spell ends, so you can block me but not attack with impugnity.
The raise dead and dismissal/banishment is a problem, although theoretically a gate or summon (limited wish for resurrection) could bring him back. Planar Ally would work as well. I allied him with a church, so the church is likely to summon him back if he's sent off to his home dimension.
OK can I get a robot roll call here? I'd like to hear from everyone who is still in and wants to play in the next 24-48 hours or so. I will continue to answer questions and take resumes up until Monday evening. Then I'll make my final cut on Tuesday, and we'll start on Thursday or Friday at the latest.
still interested.
If I'm not too much trouble due to non-standard character. :)
Felicity V is still interested.
Echane, booted up and ready to go.
Still interested, just been busy with work and family.
Present
Still here.
I am here, and ready to go...
OK everyone, I have sent PM's to those that I have invited to play in my campaign. To everyone: I had a very hard time making my decisions. That being said, since the recruitment thread will be available to me, I will keep the remaining characters in mind, and you will have first priority for anyone that decides to drop out down the road.
Again, thanks to everyone who sent in a character.
LM
Shi'Vatha completed and filled out. Let me know if I missed anything.
Oh well....had a couple of ideas, but couldn't decide, then RL steps in and...
Have fun guys, its a great setting :)
Glornug is all set. I think he's in good shape, but if anything obvious jumps out, let me know. Trying to find a suitable avatar picture... may end up defaulting to Erastil...