Lords and Ladies of the Gossamer Worlds (Inactive)

Game Master Divinitus


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I just hope we don't get left in limbo for too long...

Not to say that I don't trust the GM, I'm just agonizing over seeing a decision.


Yeah, I can't wait to know who's in!


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As far as my plan for Oneidros, in the short-to-mid term he's quite driven by the following goals:

  • Find and defeat Belem, the Dwimmerlaik who destroyed the Blooming Grove
  • Recover from him the Sapphire Root...an artifact which was instrumental in preserving the balance between Eidolon and Umbra in the Grove, and
  • Discover what happened to Jaelandra (the psionic nereid queen who ruled the Grove, and used the power of the Sapphire Root to create fecund balance in a realm that overflowed with what otherwise would be tumultuous streams of Eidolon and Umbra). If she still lives, help restore her to the Blooming Grove.
  • Along the way, he will pause to fight against slavery or captivity anywhere he meets it, as per his oath to the Sultanate of Beggars.

Meanwhile my goal for his growth is as follows:

  • Oneidros is currently overcome by grief. For now one of the few places where he can still experience unmitigated joy is in the heat of battle. Over time I want him to slowly regaining his playfulness and sense of wonder although...
  • He's permanently tainted by Umbra after Belem's attack. Before that (mechanically) he had only monster levels and wasn't gestalt. Since then he's doubled in power and gained the ability to see (and bend) gossimer and shadow to his will--reflected mechanically in all of the supernatural Shattered Mirror abilities of the Harbinger. He is anxious to understand the effect of the umbral taint upon him, and I want him to get to be unsettled by it.
  • He dreams of restoring the Blooming Grove to its former beauty and fecundity via the power of the Sapphire Root. If he ever does so, he imagines returning to his old life there...but I know that the effect of the umbral taint--which has enabled him to become a gossimer lord--means he will no longer truly be at home there. If the Grove is ever restored I look forward to roleplaying his difficult coming to terms with no longer belonging in the world he feels so attached to.
  • Finally, I wonder if his usage of Umbral power could have unintended consequences on himself or the world. (I like the tension of someone who's Good yet powered by grief and Shadow). I don't intend him to drift from CG to CN...but its conceivable he would...or more likely that he'll find he has to fight against it.

- gyrfalcon/Oniedros

EDIT: Off to bed. Good luck to all!


@Barrett Armstrong:

Barrett Armstrong wrote:
I don't really understand where you are getting your source for calling some of the Masteries "subsects". Seems kind of arbitrary.

Not really when you think about it, the GM posted that, Wrighting was A minor magical that leads one to ask what is a Major Magic. As shadow, Gossamer = Eidolon and Umbra with Doors and the Grand Stair, The other Mastery's are linked to them and have no use outside of them, hence the subsets idea. Now is Writing made Gossamer = Eidolon and Umbra worlds then Ok it would be top of the list, but its not written as such. Its written as a Mastery that changes things with-in Gossamer = Eidolon and Umbra worlds, Grand Stair and Shadow.

Barrett Armstrong wrote:


Ultimately, I think your definition is too "fluffy" for me to consider as laws personally.

Thats OK like I said you Lord may have that view as will. There can be more than one view of this.

Barrett Armstrong wrote:
Treating Umbra and Eidolon as inverse sides of the laws of Thermodynamics holds with all that we've been told so far.

Again this is the old Chaos and Law world view that came into main stream Fantasy in the 70s with the works of Moorcock and others.

Early DnD borrowed a lot from that, to make the 4 points of Contention and the 5 between. Good/Evil - Law/Chaos. Its a bit done to death and I see again and again how it and warp as a convention plays points of a Fantasy setting.

Barrett Armstrong wrote:


Invocation is the practical application of the "Theory of Everything". Wrighting is the actual process of transforming energy into matter. Mastery of Arcana and Mastery of Grand Stair seem more like exercises in quantum physics, but I'm hesitant to actually make that connection without knowing more about the two.

haha and you say my outline is "fluffy", I would say yours lacks "clarity". I see Wrighting as a means to create and transform just as all Mastery can with in there area. Its just I see it working inside the limits of a Gossamer not above it but below, lesser, smaller not as god as the lords of Umbra and Eidolon!! No just joking, but I do feel some sit inside of others. They may have more localized power and impact, that's another thing all together

Barrett Armstrong wrote:


It helps me to take the perspective of these as powers that our characters can actually manipulate and control rather mystical forces beyond understanding.

Well your dealing with the Supernatural, Magic and Super Science so good luck with that one.

I'm just working out the Story world mechanics.

hehe


Quote:
"Shadow: The dark void between the Gossamer worlds, a murky, howling and infinite emptiness. Parts of the Grand Stair span areas of the Shadow, and if one tears the veil of a Gossamer world without linking it to another Gossamer world, they will see only shadow void between."

"It's not as bad as you make it sound. I'm certain. I was gazing there for a while and dwelling on what I saw."

As for Yin's goals?

She wants to make her unborn twin live in a body of its own. Since that is part of her mind she does not trust anybody with this, the power to do so(Wish/Miracle) must come from herself(meaning she at least has to be able to cast it herself...to what extent that means the ORIGIN of power must also be herself will be up to see).
Naturally, if she achieves that it will not go as she wanted. She will bind a spirit that knows nothing of life to a semblence of flesh, at the same time cutting away a part that makes up her own being. So obviously, she will need to find a way to undo or fix this.

She wants to find either the ancestral homeworld of her race since that "fell into darkness" eons ago, and find out what that means(wether Dwimmerlaik were involved or not...), or discover a whole new world for her race(who are spread across different ones now).
If she does find a world, nobody will want to follow her. They are happy where they are, living their lives in the colonies their ancestors have founded after crossing the dark between the worlds. Also, most who left back then died, so thats not an incentive to repeat wholesome emigration. Bonus: Yin is mad and creepy in their eyes.

Thirdly, she is bound to a subplane of the dimension of dreams. She is, at the same time, master and slave of this sentient place. And the place subtle influences her to further it's own, erratic goals.
In the end, it's the only place she can call home any more, and the source of much of her power. She seeks to further interweave her being with that place. Technically, if she achieves a form of immortality, it would probably be in a way of binding her soul to the center of this plane, becoming one with it, working much like a lich would with a phylactery.

As for paths of Mythic...I suppose i'll further focus on Spell Power. I have Dual Mythic Archmage/Hierophant, for their respective spontaneous casting of any spell on the spell list for mythic power.(Since Yin is Sorcerer/Oracle that overcomes one of the bigger limitations)
To add to that, Eldritch Breach to better deal with Resistance. But I'll want to pick up Mythic Spellcasting ASAP and multiple times.
Other than that, i'll see what the campaign brings.

Silver Crusade

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you."

Beyond Good and Evil (1886), Aphorism 146 (as translated by Walter Kaufmann (1966))


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@Yin—the GM has mentioned that the Arcane path also deals with a lot of that casting stuff. But if you're looking to go full caster, Mirror Dodge along with some mythic defensive items lets you survive at melee range just as well as the fighters.

Also, not a bad Nietzsche quote, but it's a bit overquoted in public awareness.

Some less-quoted phrases of similar intent:

"The current state of knowledge can be summarized thus: In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded."
-Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies

"[My philosophy] is largely a matter of sitting inside a wet sack and moaning."
-Paul Jennings, Report on Resistentialism

"Why can't a tree be called Pluplusch, and Pluplubasch when it has been raining? The word, the word, the word outside your domain, your stuffiness, this laughable impotence, your stupendous smugness, outside all the parrotry of your self-evident limitedness. The word, gentlemen, is a public concern of the first importance."
-Hugo Ball, Dada Manifesto

"If I died and somebody wanted to wear my teeth around their neck to the VMAs, I’d feel honored."
-Ke$ha

Silver Crusade

Ok if that is not to your liking how about

Or, if there were a sympathy in choice,
War, death, or sickness did lay siege to it,
Making it momentany as a sound,
Swift as a shadow, short as any dream,
Brief as the lightning in the collied night,
That, in a spleen, unfolds both heaven and earth;
And ere a man hath power to say "Behold!"
The jaws of darkness do devour it up:
So quick bright things come to confusion.

Lysander: A Midsummer Night's Dream Act 1, scene 1, 141–149
Shakespeare Quotes


going to sleep, hope to wake to good news regarding selections!


"I'm blind... All I see is the abyss, everyday, all the time... It can be truly beautiful at times. When I fight, it is at its most beautiful. I've had the yearly falling of Cherry Blooms described to me, A quick flurry of whites and pinks and blues that seems to last a lifetime... Fighting is like that. Everything all at once, but also so slow you could feel the chi flow out from each petal." Sanzo looks particularly enthralled with what Jonny just said. "As for becoming a monster, one need not trouble their mind over such things... If a person is truly on The Path, they will be exactly what they are meant to be exactly where and when they are meant to be it. Even gods and greater beings are not immune to the flow of fate."

He thinks for a moment further, "It seems that if a person focuses too much on what they 'might' be, they miss out on what they truly are, and could align themselves on a path destined to become exactly what they are afraid they will become."


thunderbeard wrote:
@Yin—the GM has mentioned that the Arcane path also deals with a lot of that casting stuff. But if you're looking to go full caster, Mirror Dodge along with some mythic defensive items lets you survive at melee range just as well as the fighters.

Aye. I had considered the Arcane Path a while, especially since Umbra seems very popular.

But by her very nature, Yin embodies Chaos. Her alignment is chaotic chaotic. She "glimpsed beyond" and has a "broken mind"(feat and trait respectively). Lets not forget her oracle mystery:
little is known of the Dark Tapestry—the darkness between the stars where inhabitants of Golarion believe true madness lies. The few beings able to survive in the vast, cold void of space are too alien for even the gods to comprehend, and present one of the greatest threats to the known universe should they wish to do so
or the basis for her sorcery,
Connected to the Material Plane through the Ethereal Plane, much of the Shadow Plane has similar, but distorted, features that can be found in the corresponding place within the Material Plane. Where on the Material where a city might exist, on the Plane of Shadow in it's place may be ruins or some twisted representation of that city's populous.

While the Arcane Mastery may be fitting in terms of crunch, it is umbra and it's primordial chaos, the unravelling of patterns, that fits the fluff.

And while we're at overquoted things that fit...I'll just leave this here...

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity...


For Maerar his main goal is to restore his world to how it was before the Dwimmerlaik twisted it, despite having no idea what that was as he was born later. The stories tell it was a verdant paradise but it could just as well have been a verdant hell.

In addition he'd want to find out who cut of his world from the Stair. Were it the Dwimmerlaik? If so why did they wait till ages after they left? Was it the Stair itself? Were it the Gossamer Lords in an attempt to contain the Dwimmerlaik contagion? If so, what happens now the world is connected again? Was it someone else entirely?
I have been playing with the idea that it was Maerar otherwise not noteworthy great grandfather Jaerar who did it to prevent further outside mingling with his world, not knowing the citadels already had new inhabitants or what it would do to the stream of souls.

A personal goal would be finding out what he actually is now for he has no idea about his full capability yet and whether he actually wants this power.

Maerar also is a Hierophant/Archmage, with the twist that the Archmage her has been converted to the Psychic spells of the Occult Adventures book as that has no matching Mythic Path as of yet. He will focus on casting but I see him branch out from there, possibly even ascending to become a demi god in his own right. He'd end up in a role similar to the Empyreal Lord Ashava in that he'd be a shepherd of lost souls.

EDIT: I went for the Arcana path, which I'd say covers all magic and not just the arcane, simply because it seemed to fit as well as any other. Maerar doesn't lean to any of them particularly seeing that his past has mainly been concerned with the souls of the deceased and the spirits of the land. He values Eidolon and Umbra in equal manner, has no particular connection to the Stair, isn't focused on creation (though the life creation part of Wrighting is intriguing) and doesn't care about the true names of things or the ability to control them. Which leaves Arcana, not a good fit either but I could envision it as using the wisdom of the spirits to broaden his abilities, like an extended version of the Spirit Guide Oracle's Bound Spirit.

Silver Crusade

GM has been HERE Asking about some of the things you rascals have put in front of him/her.

Also I should let you know I am a big player of The Amber Diceless Roleplaying Game Having been to a number of Amber cons.

Amber is set in the multiverse described in Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber. And follows very similar lines, I have a feeling Lords of Gossamer and Shadow borrows more than a little from it and Michael Moorcock's multiverse of the eternal champion books to name just a few.

One way to look at the grand stair is to think as Moorcooks had his multiverse, the same world just crafted over and over again, with a road in time that linked them.

The other is Zelazny's which is As shadow worlds not fixed jet by pattern, with Amber at one end of reality and the Courts of Chaos at the other.

Some Amber RPG terms here:

Pattern: A character who has walked the pattern can walk in shadow to any possible universe, and while there can manipulate probability.
Logrus: A character who has mastered the Logrus can send out Logrus tendrils and pull themselves or objects through shadow.
Shape-shifting: Shape-shifters can alter their physical form and abilities.
Trump: Trump Artists can create Trumps, a sort of tarot card which allows mental communication and travel. The book features Trump portraits of each of the elder Amberites. The trump picture of Corwin is executed in a subtly different style – and has features very similar to Roger Zelazny's.
Magic: Three types of magic are detailed: Power Words, with a quick, small effect; Sorcery, with pre-prepared spells as in many other game systems; and Conjuration, the creation of small objects.

With A Lord/Lady of Gossamer or Shadow
I found a nice outline, here

A Lord/Lady of Gossamer or Shadow is what the players are. They are beings capable of finding, and opening, the doors to different realities on the Grand Stair. They may only be new to the stair or have had the ability to traverse it for some time. They are an elite few amongst all of the realities and they see the forms of power that create the realities in the form of the Eidolon (structure and form in magic) or the Umbra (Chaos, destruction and wildness in magic). Players can draw from either aspect but generally a Lady of Gossamer is a follower of the Eidolon or Umbra whilst a Lady of Shadow would be something more sinister altogether.

Interesting

Jason D in Aug 2002
said
Re: Lords of Gossamer and Shadow
I am the author, and can offer some clarify.

It will not be based on any existing intellectual property. That is, it will be an original setting.

Inspirations include Roger Zelazny's fiction, along with many other influences such as Gene Wolfe, China Mieville, Neil Gaiman, Sergei Lukyanenko, Iain M. Banks, Charles de Lint, Stephen Brust, Phillip Pullman, Charles Stross, John C. Wright, and Elizabeth Willey, among others. A common theme among all of these are stories about multiple realities, and gifted protagonists who can move between them.

so there you have it,


Rynjin wrote:
Genjô Fa Xian wrote:
Ultimate Character motivation here is: "Find lover who has been dead for a millennia", Which ultimately culminates in "Become a god, and bring her back, or raise her soul to god-hood with me." Immortality would be a horrible curse for Genjo.

Ultimate motivation for my last Mythic character. He killed his wife after going insane from Cthulhu's appearance, and her ghost haunted him (he was a Haunted Oracle).

Brought her back too, before the game fizzled out with only two Old Ones left to kill (we made short work of Ithaqua, Hastur, and Shub-Niggurath, and stopped the coming of Azathoth, so only Yig and Cthulhu remained).

...And I swear it's just a coincidence that both my Mythic characters have ties to the Mythos.

AHHH!!! I wanted that game to continue so badly. I'm Koran. WE WERE SO CLOSE!!!


*Watches people stalk the GM. Shivers*

Strange. I would have thought that world of darkness would have been a major influence... although I suppose it's not uncommon to have themes like the Triat in a roleplaying setting. Granted... he may have listed those people, and I just don't know who's actually responsible for WoD.


Jonny...Panic wrote:
GM has been HERE Asking about some of the things you rascals have put in front of him/her

...this is why GM Fiat exists, at the end of the day.


Honestly, I like the idea that they could live. All manner of things provide protection from various environmental effects, even ones of space.

Sensible (within the bounds of fantasy setting and without involving a graphic calculator) limits should be set on distance (much like a hard cap of 20d6 damage from environmental stuff has been set). Just as falling in a pool of lava, which would kill humans according to physics, only will do 20d6 per round, I would think the damage of being blasted through the atmosphere at ridiculous speeds would be similarly limited to 20d6.

Plus, (i havent read the feats) if the whole thing hinges upon the use of a mythic point, then I don't see an issue. We don't get a whole lot of those.

It's kinda gimmicky, and I imagine it'll become less and less amusing after a few in-game combats.

Plus, if we are fighting indoors or underground... no throwing things at the sun. Although it WOULD be cool to see folks thrown through doors/walls.


Can you throw someone in a mile-high arc? Same effective killing power, but you get to flatten whatever village you throw them at.

In general, limitless range requires enough mythic power to shoot a bow/gun into orbit (at the earth's surface), somehow negating air resistance; there's a lot of ways to get wacky with this.


His perception is a +18, so a max roll of 38. Unless that village is under 460ft away (counting a +8 to see something that size and a DC 0 perception check), I don't see his chances of hitting it that great.

Disclaimer: i'm no physicist, i have no idea how much damage would be caused by a monster of varying size/weight hitting something after traveling 460ft.

That said, I would imagine that to be capped at 20d6 as well.


Maybe? But I'd give a village an AC of, like, -80. Or treat it like an indirect siege weapon, and let him add Knowledge (engineering) to the attack roll, that could be hilarious.


Really, are we still on about the throwing thing?

There's really only 2 options.

A: As someone in the other thread said: Whatever is thrown reaches relativistic speed, impacting the target regardless of distance in a matter of seconds.

Result: The "boom" of breaking the relativistic barrier basically causes lethal damage to anything along the path, including a large area around the starting point. Damage type is DM-Fiat and can't be reduced in any way.

B: The object thrown does NOT break laws of physic when thrown.

Result: If the target it is thrown towards is reasonably too far away, said victim will take several to many rounds to arrive there.
In this case, said victim could react during the rounds before impact however it feels is approbiate. A flying creature could try to regain control, a spellcaster may cast, whatever it is the victim can do. Naturally some "victims" will helplessly reach space and float around there while holding their breath while suffocating and taking damage each round.
But many other victims will not fall prey to this kind of attack. Somthing may plane shift to a plane with subjective directional gravity and use it to brake, then come back. Or you opt to throw it against a mountain...my bad, it has regeneration, it takes a while to heal up then comes right back.
*shrug*

Really, this just calls for creative DM judgement in my eyes, I don't think it's overpowered by itself, but the rules don't cover all the applications.


I just imagine some wizard or psion (or similarly powerful being with some kind of spellcasting/manifesting) appearing some days later after having been thrown somewhere ridiculous, and being like "You threw me? What are you, mentally ill?"


Yin, Daughter of Nug wrote:

Really, are we still on about the throwing thing?

There's really only 2 options.

A: As someone in the other thread said: Whatever is thrown reaches relativistic speed, impacting the target regardless of distance in a matter of seconds.

Result: The "boom" of breaking the relativistic barrier basically causes lethal damage to anything along the path, including a large area around the starting point. Damage type is DM-Fiat and can't be reduced in any way.

B: The object thrown does NOT break laws of physic when thrown.

Result: If the target it is thrown towards is reasonably too far away, said victim will take several to many rounds to arrive there.
In this case, said victim could react during the rounds before impact however it feels is approbiate. A flying creature could try to regain control, a spellcaster may cast, whatever it is the victim can do. Naturally some "victims" will helplessly reach space and float around there while holding their breath while suffocating and taking damage each round.
But many other victims will not fall prey to this kind of attack. Somthing may plane shift to a plane with subjective directional gravity and use it to brake, then come back. Or you opt to throw it against a mountain...my bad, it has regeneration, it takes a while to heal up then comes right back.
*shrug*

Really, this just calls for creative DM judgement in my eyes, I don't think it's overpowered by itself, but the rules don't cover all the applications.

I agree, I didn't mean for my character to cause such a commotion and in the end it doesn't really matter what any of us (myself included) think should happen. It's all up to the GM.

Although option A really embodies what I think mythic characters should be like.
Kind of like this.


I did have a rogue with troll-regeneration jump out of a 20-story spire of a castle, and fall over the cliff the castle was built on and take 20d6 nonlethal damage. All his bones, shattered; meat, tenderized; fully unconscious. There was a forest below, and as the castle was staffed by vampires, no one could go out to get him until nightfall (we had killed the living thralls). By then he had regenerated and left! good times.

edit:

well, Garron, i guess the wait on your character means you have a good chance of being selected!? who knows? hahaha


Regarding Option A:

No problem there as long as the area damage does not turn off my regeneration :)
Otherwise give advance warning so I can phase away.

And yep Tenro, those are fun times. Had something similar happen in 3.5 but can't for the live of me remember what race the player was. Was a somewhat JRPG-inspired game.
He was a pure martial and we were fighting our way up a tower. When one of the BBEG's Leutnants was doing a speech in front of a balcony, he charged and grappled him, jumping off the tower(and it was quite high...)
Managed to pin him before impact, too. Resulted in the LT's death and the path upwards unsealed.
But our buddy was out as well. Time was of the essence so we continued upward, but a few floors later he had caught up with us again(player had to leave game to pick someone up from airport, so it was a convenient break for him)...we just gave him a high-five and continued kicking ass.


I was looking at Savant Creature
trying out a pour construct build for my PC and spotted this

Challenge Rating: The savant's high Intelligence should make it a much greater threat than an average member of its race because of the plots and machinations it can invent, but in physical combat, no adjustment or a +1 adjustment to CR should be appropriate. If the savant can cast spells as a cleric, druid, or wizard, the abnormally high save DCs may justify a +2 CR adjustment.

So I'm confused if I use it, is it a CR+0 CR+1 or CR+2 template.
I think as a 13th level Psion its a bit much to ask the GM for it a CR0
So CR1 But as a power user as well it would seem to be more CR2

would I bee right in thinking that any Magic Power user PC at 13 level would hate a CR2 hit with this template over a CR1 hit, and would it hit both-sides. Seems Advanced is a much better Template if it is.


Garron wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Genjô Fa Xian wrote:
Ultimate Character motivation here is: "Find lover who has been dead for a millennia", Which ultimately culminates in "Become a god, and bring her back, or raise her soul to god-hood with me." Immortality would be a horrible curse for Genjo.

Ultimate motivation for my last Mythic character. He killed his wife after going insane from Cthulhu's appearance, and her ghost haunted him (he was a Haunted Oracle).

Brought her back too, before the game fizzled out with only two Old Ones left to kill (we made short work of Ithaqua, Hastur, and Shub-Niggurath, and stopped the coming of Azathoth, so only Yig and Cthulhu remained).

...And I swear it's just a coincidence that both my Mythic characters have ties to the Mythos.

AHHH!!! I wanted that game to continue so badly. I'm Koran. WE WERE SO CLOSE!!!

I hit up Mike on Facebook a while back and he said we were going to continue, but it never happened. =(


Aannra-127-B6 wrote:


So I'm confused if I use it, is it a CR+0 CR+1 or CR+2 template.
I think as a 13th level Psion its a bit much to ask the GM for it a CR0
So CR1 But as a power user as well it would seem to be more CR2

would I bee right in thinking that any Magic Power user PC at 13 level would hate a CR2 hit with this template over a CR1 hit, and would it hit both-sides. Seems Advanced is a much better Template if it is.

Of course i cannot speak for GM, but looking at the stat adjustments of

Str –2 (minimum 1), Dex –2 (minimum 1), Con –2 (minimum 1), Int +10, Wis +6, Cha –4 (minimum 1).

I would guess that for a Caster based on Int(and to lesser extent Wis) it would definitely take CR2, but since it adds almost nothing else, probably only on one side of the gestalt.

It's just a wild guess but that would be my estimate(especially since that means 5 more skill ranks per level, too, and you get to substitute int for a saving throw attribute once per round), if you want to consider it, feel that it fits your character and your power level requires an upgrade compared to your friends.


Was thinking of making her a constrict with this template, she would have a massive int. 10+4r+8p+10T+3L+1B+6It = 42 with a power that adds +4 an hour at a time so 46.

But her other stats would be 12/20/12/46/28/10

Brian on a stick. With that mega Save once a round. +18 to save.

I like the idea of her being like the Vision now
CR2 on one side would work.

Humm


Aannra-127-B6 wrote:

I was looking at Savant Creature

trying out a pour construct build for my PC and spotted this

Challenge Rating: The savant's high Intelligence should make it a much greater threat than an average member of its race because of the plots and machinations it can invent, but in physical combat, no adjustment or a +1 adjustment to CR should be appropriate. If the savant can cast spells as a cleric, druid, or wizard, the abnormally high save DCs may justify a +2 CR adjustment.

So I'm confused if I use it, is it a CR+0 CR+1 or CR+2 template.
I think as a 13th level Psion its a bit much to ask the GM for it a CR0
So CR1 But as a power user as well it would seem to be more CR2

would I bee right in thinking that any Magic Power user PC at 13 level would hate a CR2 hit with this template over a CR1 hit, and would it hit both-sides. Seems Advanced is a much better Template if it is.

Did you already ask the GM about it for your character? For instance, my character is mostly melee, using his psionic powers to buff himself, so it was ruled a +0. But someone who is enjoying the +5 to DCs (from the +10 INT) to a whole host of mind-crushing powers might be a +2. The DM should have ruled one way or another in your case already, if you asked about it.

I believe either way it costs for you, it is just one side though.


Ye I did but after our roll play I wanted to go fully Construct, it just fits so much better.

I agree I think ill ask the GM if its +1CR or a +2CR, it dos add a lotto a PC, most of all the save power, An int busts if your any kind of Psion users. If your powering Metamoth or stuff like that, you get to add things.

She is not a fighter hand to hand, its all mental and manipulation with her.

The Exchange

As much as I like my super speed thief, you guys are makeing amazing characters and I'm more than a tad intimidated,


Garron, are you ok with having mountain impacting throws on a DBZ magnitude as opposed to actually Chucking someone into the sun? You still have Herculean strength, and I feel like the desired effect is there.

Also, as a note for any interested in physics and don't know this that wouldn't be a direct throw like you think it is either. First you've got to break orbit, than DECREASE orbit speed relative to the surface of the sun.


Savant's +10 Int (and the bonus skills and +DC it gets) is roughly equivalent to ~10 feats, or ~300k GP of gear, with only minor drawbacks. Sure, Gestalt cheapens skills, feats, and items, but it still absolutely sounds like a both-sides sort of template for anyone who focuses on Int.


Think is both me an Tenro PC are high in Psion based PS and the GM said he was ok with one side. I'm happy to take the CR2 on one side.


Aannra:
Would you be a dear or anyone else tell me how to block any text or messages from another user? There's a person who's being a rules-lawyer or just an overall jerk who's not even the DM. I want to tell this person to shut up but thought to take more civil measures.

Thank you, Tenro. To block people the user must first send you a message. There's no way to block someone in general without having sent you a message, unfortunately. Now, do I ask that person to send me a message?


hm. Oh well, if the power creep gets too high, I can always add Suzerain and/or Inveigler to Yin.

I'm relaxed about this.


Aannra-127-B6 wrote:
...If your powering Metamoth or stuff like that, you get to add things....

INT doesn't get me more per manifestation of Metamorphosis in any way, although it does give me more points to manifest Metamorphosis more times per day. A single manifestation is limited by Manifester Level, INT does not increase your manifester level.

I do have a few powers that benefit from the save increase, actually 3 powers.
- One shifts their mood towards friendly (harmless)
- One erases me from the subject's view (harmless)
- One sends a % of damage back at them when they hit me (only one that actually hurts)

My two Racial SLAs that allow saves are CHA-based, so get no bonus.

I do benefit from INT to 1 save once per round. I also get 5 more disruption damage from it.

The main draw is all the boosted Knowledge and skill points to invest into most Knowledges and several Crafts.

As far as my melee goes, INT does affect my damage, but doesn't affect my to-hit.


Genjô Fa Xian wrote:

Garron, are you ok with having mountain impacting throws on a DBZ magnitude as opposed to actually Chucking someone into the sun? You still have Herculean strength, and I feel like the desired effect is there.

Also, as a note for any interested in physics and don't know this that wouldn't be a direct throw like you think it is either. First you've got to break orbit, than DECREASE orbit speed relative to the surface of the sun.

Absolutely, like I said I will except any adjustments/DM fiat that are decided.


Yin, Daughter of Nug wrote:

hm. Oh well, if the power creep gets too high, I can always add Suzerain and/or Inveigler to Yin.

I'm relaxed about this.

Oooo, you could be Charisma-personified, Yin. Laird, Mineire, and Aannra are all about Intelligence. Garron is about Strength. Wodin is Wisdom. Barrett is Dexterity.

*cough cough* v v


Laird Aitken wrote:
Oooo, you could be Charisma-personified, Yin. Laird, Mineire, and Aannra are all about Intelligence. Garron is about Strength. Wodin is Wisdom. Barrett is Dexterity.

Or, y'know, you could be about a mixture of abilities, like many of the other submissions. (Although Attoshi may have grabbed the "Constitution Personified" role, due to the Arcane Bloodrager's constant ability to resist all energies and half of any weapon damage)


thunderbeard wrote:
Laird Aitken wrote:
Oooo, you could be Charisma-personified, Yin. Laird, Mineire, and Aannra are all about Intelligence. Garron is about Strength. Wodin is Wisdom. Barrett is Dexterity.
Or, y'know, you could be about balance like the rest of the submissions. (Although Attoshi may have grabbed the "Constitution Personified" role, due to the Arcane Bloodrager's constant ability to resist all energies and half of any weapon damage)

You know, the fun part about this is, If i did this, I personally would be weaker. I lose spells, a revelation, a feat...Of course my saves would be even higher, and the Spell DC's too, but i'll have a harder time breaking SR too.

But mainly, I would add, within 60 feet of me, to each ally a morale bonus of 20 to all attack and damage rolls, checks, and saves so long as i'm alive and not destroyed.

So technically, what I would "unbalance" most would be to crazy-buff everybody else as long as i'm nearby.
So yep, I'd just hide and let the wrecking crew go crazy, then flutter up and heal boo-boos.

But not planning on going there unless everybody else breaks 40's on their attributes, and i don't feel like thats gonna happen.


Yin, Daughter of Nug wrote:


But mainly, I would add, within 60 feet of me, to each ally a morale bonus of 20 to all attack and damage rolls, checks, and saves so long as i'm alive and not destroyed.

I choose YOU, PIKA-CHU! I mean Yin! +20 ZOMG!


Laird Aitken wrote:
Yin, Daughter of Nug wrote:


But mainly, I would add, within 60 feet of me, to each ally a morale bonus of 20 to all attack and damage rolls, checks, and saves so long as i'm alive and not destroyed.

I choose YOU, PIKA-CHU! I mean Yin! +20 ZOMG!

Ya, stacking on templates gets really crazy.

But Yin already IS crazy(literally) as-she-is, so she has no need for further templates. ^_^


Minor modifications to Mora: Dropped the Leadership feat that was floating there as 'having people she'd written as stories floating around everywhere' as them having some sort of personal allegiance to her (even as a level 1 farmhand) is a little silly. I picked up Cypher Script instead, which is an incredibly obvious feat now that I'm thinking about it. I also dropped a bit out of diplomacy to pick up Autohypnosis(I hope this is okay), because it's -incredibly- fitting.

Finally, I'm thinking her 33rd Language is simply called 'Shorthand' where she uses whichever word is the shortest to write to take notes. :P


1/2celestial, 1/2 feind, 1/2 dragon, alacritous, giant, advanced, 1/2 Fey, kobold! I think I'm shy by a level or so.

Just putting it out there!


Hotaru of the Society wrote:
Finally, I'm thinking her 33rd Language is simply called 'Shorthand' where she uses whichever word is the shortest to write to take notes. :P

could not find your listing of languages but just in case you don't have it yet, lip-reading is also learned via linguistics(and used together with perception)...could be handy.

Genjô Fa Xian wrote:

1/2celestial, 1/2 feind, 1/2 dragon, alacritous, giant, advanced, 1/2 Fey, kobold! I think I'm shy by a level or so.

Just putting it out there!

omg. Now I want to make another character. Not as a serious submission, but just like that.

I'm half dragon, half fiend and half celestial. My family situation is a bit complicated but be assured I'm 150% pure awesome!
BOO-YAA!


...33 languages. That's more than there even are in Core, I believe. (Although I've played a level 2 character with 12 languages known in a world of 10 languages, and it's quite fun)

@Yin: You forgot about being a half-orc halfling.


I'm an Inveigler :)

Also, not posting as my alias due to possibly changing the name, and I'm already at 7 posts with it.

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