Welcome to the discussion thread. After everyone has checked in, I will start up the in game thread.
If there are any last minute questions about the game and/or setting, please feel free to ask now.
Amria Shadowstalker reporting for duty.
I would like to let everyone know that your character sheet isn't set in stone until Gameplay starts. If you feel that a spell or a skill is better handled by another character, you may swap it out for new one. Just be sure to note it here in the discussion thread to that I am aware of the change.
One undead slayer checking in.
Hey all! Welcome to the game!
This is the Witch I plan on having join you! I purchased a bunch of scrolls to add spells to his familiar, but if there are any spells that you particularly want him to have that he doesn't have, let me know. I have plenty of gold to pick up a couple more.
As for prepared spells, I've currently got Enlarge Person. I've found that this is a really good spell for some melee fighters and others *really* don't want it on them. So, I'm fine with preparing something else. It's really just up to our two melee combatants.
As for skills, Vasili covers Diplomacy and then some. He also has Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (History), and Spellcraft at a significant bonus. I would guess that Knowledge (Local) and Knowledge (Religion) will be very important in this game, but it looks like we have those covered (three times in the case of knowledge (religion), which is good.) The only identification Knowledge that we don't have is Knowledge (Planes). For character reasons, I'd really like to keep Knowledge (History), but if we're strapped and people don't want to live without Knowledge (Planes) I can work it in.
As for combat roles, Vasili comes with all the usual Witch stuff. I switched out Evil Eye for Misfortune since Evil Eye is ineffective against undead. Typically, I consider it the go-to Witch Hex, but I feel like the majority of things we face will be immune to mind-affecting effects. And both are pretty classic gypsy abilities. For spells, I'll be concentrating on buffs for the group, and some healing.
As to equipment of note, like Onvyr, I've already picked up a horse. I'd also suggest that people pick up Lesser Restoration potions (all of 50gp). Maybe a Cure Light Wounds potion or Oil of Magic Weapon (very important before we pick up actual magic weapons)? Oh, with that said, I do have a question: Can we purchase used wands? For example, a 10 charge wand? (Of a first level spell with caster level of 1, that would be 150 gp). If we can, I suggest that some of us pick up one or two. (CLW, Infernal Healing, Lesser Restoration) All good choices. Well, Infernal Healing might be a problem for some members of the party. ;) But that's a personal choice.
I am fine with used wands being purchased at start with however many charges you can afford. Once in game though, if you are looking for a partially charged wand I will roll a 1d50 to see what is available for sale.
Also, before anyone asks, I will be allowing Lesser Restoration items to be bought at the Paladin crafted levels as well as Cleric levels.
In that case, I switched out my Lesser Restoration potions for a Wand, and picked up a Wand of Infernal Healing. I still have enough gold to purchase a couple of extra scrolls, if anyone has spell suggestions. I'm also willing to just drop a spell and add a different one if it comes to that. I'm really flexible on what spells we want around.
As a d8 weapon wielder, I approve immensely of Enlarge Person. As a witch player, I also greatly approve of the combat trained Heavy Horse, however I suggest you take a point from Knowledge(history) to put in Handle Animal, since you don't get the +4 for it being a animal companion, and Handle Animal DC's get quite hard in combat versus undead.
That's just a suggestion, however, so feel free to ignore.
Handle Animal isn't actually a class skill for Witches. Who knows why. But, it means I'll never effectively be pushing the horse anyway (DC 25+, nope). Which is fine. It's a heavy war-trained horse only so it doesn't die easily and because horses come pretty cheap (relatively). I don't plan on actually having it fight unless we get jumped while traveling.
But it will carry my stuff. Because traveling without a tent, blankets, and food isn't happening. And unlike you big strong guys, I'm not carrying that stuff without slowing down.
For a class that is directly quoted as: "Lurking on the fringes of civilization" and has animal familiars, I will never understand why they do not have Survival and Handle Animal as in class skills.
Also, if your character is wondering what to wear, the average daylight temperature will be between 50 and 60 degree Fahrenheit.
Checking in with my Oracle. An undead lover and something of a witch in the colloquial sense.
Ok, that looks like everyone. Go ahead and add any last touches you want to your characters and gear lists and tomorrow I will open the Gameplay thread and post.
Turned out I made some mistakes in my character sheet. I shorted myself to build points due to +2 CHA. I added that to DEX. I fixed all of the DEX related modifiers to reflect this change. I also dropped the buckler (leaving me with the same AC) to take up a horse as it seems to be the preferred method of travel for the party. Added some extra gear. I also corrected a couple of skills where I had the modifier too high due to ACP. Anyone who would like to look over the stats for any other mistakes are welcome to do so.
Looking over you sheet, I am not sure where your +7 Initiative comes from, I think it should just be +5 unless I've missed a special ability or trait. I would also like you to list the name of the Judgement you have on your sheet in case I need to look anything up about it and I saw Solo Tactics listed but you will get that at next level. I think your CMD should be 16 instead of 15. Looking over your skills, you didn't show your numbers for how you got the bonuses in your skills, how many ranks you put in them, so I am not sure if they are right or a little off.
For all, I'm fairly lenient and will allow people to make changes to their sheets up until the point that they use that particular skill/spell/whatever.
I will also be opening up the Gameplay thread here in a few moments.
Amria: I'd recommend Handle Animal if you want to teach your future animal companion some tricks. It gets some bonus tricks, so it's not *that* big a deal. Just something to add if you can.
Also, you might want to ask the GM how she wants to handle Speak with Animals and Diplomacy. As written, you can't use diplomacy with creatures with an Intelligence of 3 or less. Which means that your diplomacy bonus is useless unless the bats, wolves, and rats somehow increased their intelligence. It's my belief that the intent of Speak with Animals is to be able to use diplomacy on animals.
This is what it did in 3.5, but pathfinder added the clause of needing higher than a 3 intelligence and didn't seem to notice when giving characters bonuses to diplomacy with animals and the Speak with Animals spell. Before, all you needed was to be able to understand each other, which Speak with Animals provides.
Looking over you sheet, I am not sure where your +7 Initiative comes from, I think it should just be +5 unless I've missed a special ability or trait. I would also like you to list the name of the Judgement you have on your sheet in case I need to look anything up about it and I saw Solo Tactics listed but you will get that at next level. I think your CMD should be 16 instead of 15. Looking over your skills, you didn't show your numbers for how you got the bonuses in your skills, how many ranks you put in them, so I am not sure if they are right or a little off.
Weird, I thought I had already fixed the Initiative. Fixed now.
Not entirely sure what you mean. I have all of the judgements available to me. You choose which judgement you are going to use when you activate the Judgement feature.
Yeah, I had deleveled the character and missed removing that, but then I don't have any teamwork feats so it doesn't do anything anyway.
Yep, missed upping that after increasing the DEX. Good catch!
As for the skills [((6 + INT)x2 + 2))= 16] (ranks, class skill bonus, ability mod, (class feature and/or trait,) acp):
Climb 1+3+2-2
Diplomacy 1+3
Heal 1+3+2
Intimidate 1+3+1(+1)
Dungeoneering 1+4+1(+1)
Nature 1+3+1(+1)
Religion 1+3+1(+1)
Perception 2+3+2
Ride 1+3+3-2
Sense Motive 1+3+2(+1)
Stealth 2+3+3-2
Survival 2+3+2(+1)
Swim 1+3+2-2
@ Vasili - Two more levels till Animal Companion. Handle Animal will come. Not enough skill points yet. Now that I have purchased Intimidate and SM, I won't be placing any more points into them. They auto climb with my level. Likewise Climb and Swim. Just needed to spend a point in each so as to have a chance of succeeding and fit the survivalist nature of the character. Probably won't be spending any more points on Heal either as we have so many divine characters who may take it and build upon it.
Regarding Diplomacy skill and animals: Core rulebook does state that you can't use it on creatures with less than INT 3, however; the designers have repeatedly stated that newest source trumps older sources. If a newer source says you can, then you can. I'm brusque, so please know this is only an explanation and not an admonishment.
Please let me know if anything else stands out.
Regarding Diplomacy skill and animals: Core rulebook does state that you can't use it on creatures with less than INT 3, however; the designers have repeatedly stated that newest source trumps older sources. If a newer source says you can, then you can. I'm brusque, so please know this is only an explanation and not an admonishment.
I agree. It's just that the newer sources don't actually *say* that you can use diplomacy on animals with 3 or less intelligence, or even that it bypasses that clause. As per the rule, strictly speaking, if you run into a wolf with an intelligence of 4+ diplomacy is fair game and you get a +2 bonus. It's stupid and nitpicky, but it's the rule. So it's up to the GM.
I know that, in my opinion, I generally read rules inclusively. So if it says you have a +2 diplomacy and it's clear what they meant, then you're good to go. In this case, the rule could be clearer with a minimal amount of effort on their part, but it's difficult to do that across and entire ruleset. It's understandable that such issues come up. I'm pretty confident our GM here has a similar view (I know her pretty well, so it's a good bet.) I just figured it should be brought up so everyone is aware of it. Frankly, they should have outright stated that Speak with Animals allows Diplomacy. It's clear that they intended it to. You only need to look at things like Vampiric Empathy and Elven Serenity to see it.
And no worries about being brusque. :) It's not really a discussion worth getting into in depth. We both agree on how it should be interpreted. I feel like any reasonable person would. It's just something you want to make clear before someone notes that the text doesn't *quite* technically allow it.
As a note, I do occasionally "house rule" and choose to rule as things are intended.
On this latest topic, I always felt that if anything gives you the ability speak to an animal, then it should bypass the Int 3 clause and that you should be able to use Diplomacy/Intimidate upon it and that's how I rule when I GM.
I can't think of any other house rules that apply to the game at this moment, but if anyone has any questions on future rules, feel free to PM me.
Hey, just checking in to say that while Kair is a professional undead hunter, I'm not going to be starting in-party fighting. Just the occasional annoying comment and a hateful gaze on the undead you may or may not summon.
We can lay some ground rules in character later on, if you'd like. That should be fun.
Yeah, I've got no beef. And I enjoy some in character conflict. My character is pretty laid back and isn't a cleric so isn't really at risk of "violating" any tenets of a faith. I'm looking forward to working things out and seeing how the characters interact. And yeah, I think they can find common ground in the fact that there are going to be a lot of undead that EVERYONE has to kill.
So long as you aren't holding out hope that some passing vampire is going to become your mentor/bestie, you'll be okay.
Will do. Hope you get better soon.
Get well soon!
Cruentus Angealous fills out the party as our fifth member.
Cruentus, your messenger had a hard time finding you, thus you were a bit late to meeting. Go ahead and read the opening posts as the Baron will repeat everything for you and then order a house servant to show you upstairs to where the rest of the group is.
Would it be unreasonable to later enchantment armor that could shift forms with me?
I think that this covers what you are asking for:
Wild
Price +3 bonus; Aura moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Weight —
Armor with this special ability usually appears to be made from magically hardened animal pelt. The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape. Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be covered in leaf patterns. While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor cannot be seen.
Construction Requirements
Cost +3 bonus
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, baleful polymorph
Went to the doctor Tuesday and ended up in the hospital for emergency surgery. Got out Wednesday and went back to work tonight. I am back and feeling better now.
Glad to hear you're feeling better. Hope you are taking it easy at work, I'd be taking at least a week off if I had any kind of surgery.
I will be done with equipment in a couple of hours. I'll be able to post this evening. I read through most of the gameplay. Is there a certain way I should make my entrance to the party? Or would you prefer to introduce my character? I just don't want to enter at a weird point like " all of a sudden a strange character shows up and now you all love him like a brother and want to adventure together for no reason."
I went ahead and introduced him. A house servant will take you from the Baron's study and lead you upstairs to where the others are at. You are introduced by your name and then can follow the others outside to the garden. The others haven't even known each other for even an hour yet, so don't don't worry about feeling new. No one really knows each other yet.
Got you. Finished equipment. Posted costs by the equipment for easy review. If there is any equipment like traveling gear we will need I have some extra cash to pick it up before hand.
Ok. You've been introduced, so feel free to post in game.
I just noticed that we no longer have Knowledge (Local). Would it be possible to take a drawback for another trait? I could pick up Knowledge (Local) but it's not currently a class skill (for anyone in the group.)
I was thinking of picking up Foul Brand (Urgathoa) and the Civilized trait. If not I can cover Knowledge (Planes), but someone else might have to look into trying to pick up Knowledge (Local). It'll be rough without it.
---
Foul Brand: You have the symbol of an evil deity burned into your flesh. If the symbol is on your hand, you take a –1 penalty on Disable Device, Disguise, and Sleight of Hand checks. If the symbol is on your face, you take a –2 penalty on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Disguise checks.
This does not count as a holy symbol for the purposes of a divine focus for spellcasting.
Civilized: You gain a +1 trait bonus on Knowledge (nobility) checks and Knowledge (local) checks. Knowledge (local) is always a class skill for you.
I really hadn't thought about drawbacks before, but have no problem if anyone would like to take one in order to get another trait.
Urgathoa does make the most sense to take for your Brand, she does have a strong following here.
Character sheet updated. A little background and description added.
I moved one skill point from Knowledge (history) to Knowledge (local).
Sorry, I don't have the skill points to put into Local.
By the way, how does everybody just know that our newest member is a skinwalker? I know Kair made a knowledge (local) check untrained, but that only allows for a max DC of 10 and we're all CR 1 so that's a DC 11.
I thought he shifted. I assumed that I know that because he did it in front of me, buut, I'm happy to retcon that.
I believe he did so behind some bushes so as not to attract any notice. I think the plan was to be out of sight of any of us when he did it.
From the post, I thought he was going to shift out of sight of everyone. Though I am a bit unsure whether he planned on doing any attempt at tracking after he shifted.
We can just retcon no one noticing his other form if he stayed out of sight the whole time.
For using knowledge local, it isn't always a static 10+CR. Depending on the rarity of something it can be 5+CR (example given was a goblin), 10+CR, or a 15+CR.
So any random folks without knowledge local would be able to recognize an orc or an elf.
As long as a skinwalker doesn't shift in front a person, I'm putting the DC at 10+CR. If a skinwalker shifts in front of you, then it drops to DC 5+CR because at that point it becomes rather obvious.
Yeah originally I didn't want to come right out with it but it's no biggie. I figured as a ranger he might have experience identifying creatures like me anyway so no reason to fight it.
-Posted with Wayfinder
I am aware of the ammount of changes allowed. Changing back is a swift action and the little transformation there was just for flavor and I would hope fluff stuff of that nature wouldn't count against my daily allotment. Especially since I didn't transform all the way. I can take the horse though if you think it would be better to have me there. I mean a saddle isn't exactly breaking the bank lol.
Just moved this here to not bog down the other thread too much.
Fluff stuff is fine and I wouldn't count that against your daily allotment.
Because I'm a little unclear which of the two changes you said was a swift action, I just thought I'd go ahead clarify what I understand them to be in case you have read something different.
Normal -> Bat = Standard action
Bat -> Normal = Standard action
Normal -> Beastial = Standard action
Beastial -> Normal = Swift action
Also of note, despite Vasili's assertions, you can be understood while in bat form.
Again, apologies, that's right. Amria has the ability to speak with bats. (I'd forgotten, sorry!) Though, the rest of us don't have any way, correct? Or is there something else I'm missing?
I don't know if anyone else has the ability to speak with animals.
I would be able to, in a couple of levels. Until then, no.
Was anyone interested in actually tracking the "loot" taken? I know Kair threw it on his horse, just wasn't sure if you wanted to take the responsibility for tracking it too. :)
Also, I assume the pouches of coins all went in there too? This seems like a good place to unload extra copper and silver that we don't want.
I'd do it, but I'm already doing it for another campaign, so I'd rather have someone else take it. Good point about the coppers and silvers, though.
No worries, I'll track it. Added to the character sheet.
Thank you for taking on the inventory, Vasili.