"Kirthfinder" Aviona PBP

Game Master Kirth Gersen

A little Caspian....or Caspana (Congrats)

A little Caspian...

Don't think I could take that -- having one of him in the PBP is enough for me!

Congratulations!

I am getting to the point where the light at the end of the tunnel may not be a train. About ready to ship one off to college.

Good for you! I waited long enough that I'm likely to reach the end of my mortal coil before the "moonbeam" is ready to escape the house.

For everyone I am going on vacation limited time and/or internet access will be “out” for the next 12 days or so.

If I am DMing your game this will have a bigger effect than if I am just a PC in a game you are running

You're never "just" a PC!

Are We going to the final rules?

I did not know the rules were finalized.....until I checked my spam folder.

Thanks Kirth!!

Are We going to the final rules?

You are welcome to do so if you want, but it's not something I'd want to require.

This calls for a song about who let the dogs out.........

Though I can certainly do better.

So todays kirthfinder question is the cost of a ghost touch net. Or oils of ghost touch that one could apply to a net.

Incorpreal creatures hate ghost touch nets!

So todays kirthfinder question is the cost of a ghost touch net. Or oils of ghost touch that one could apply to a net.

See Chapter 6, "Weapon and Armor Properties." Ghost touch is listed.

Caspian, to clarify, the ghost touch property (7,500 numen) on a net would allow you to affect incorporeal beings with it (instead of dealing full damage, which is not applicable for a net!). But there's a better option:

If you've got the Ghostwalk supplement for 3e, there's a spell in there specifically for what you need: ectoplasmic web acts as a web spell but also affects incorporeal beings. 3rd level spell x CL 5th x 500 (use-activated) x 1.5 (multiplier for 10 min/level duration) = 11,250 numen, no "to hit" roll or CMB roll needed, Reflex save (DC 14) negates; affects a 20-ft. radius.

So...it looks like I may have to consider the outlaw preformer bardic lore as it seems to give in-roads into some rogue talents.

Kirth: If I take that lore do I have to multiclass into rogue or is it just an option?

Been reading through the latest version of Kirthfinder. Not sure I have found what the differences are as of yet (at least between the fighter/dwarf combo) or the feats, though I think I may have seen a couple. I have to get my old ones out and cross check.

Been looking at what I may take for next level even though that may be a ways off yet.

Jaegr,

The biggest thing for the fighter is in weapon training: you don't need to pick groups anymore; you just get +1/2 level to damage with all weapons. It's a lot easier to keep track of and keeps you from losing one of your signature abilities if someone sunders your pick. The downside is that you don't get the weapon training attack bonus anymore.

Crushing Blow also has bigger up-front effects now, IIRC, because +1 at 1st level (vs. +8 plate armor) is so fiddly you can pretty well ignore it.

Caspian,

Unless it says, "If you have levels in rogue," you don't actually need rogue levels. That said, it's probably not a really good trade-off to spend 2 lore just for 1 rogue talent.

Just read crushing blow. So before I reach 6th, I will do half damage if I miss within their armor/shield bonus. (Barring a rolled 1 I suppose) So if they have AC 20 and I roll a 17 and they have Studded leather or above then it is a hit for half? That is very nice indeed!

One question as I was looking through everything. So with the 5th level fighter ability Mettle, I was thinking about taking Evasion Fighter talent as well. However with Evasion you need light armor, does this talent work the same way. If so, would it work if you can get the armor's ACP to 0?

Just read crushing blow. So before I reach 6th, I will do half damage if I miss within their armor/shield bonus. (Barring a rolled 1 I suppose) So if they have AC 20 and I roll a 17 and they have Studded leather or above then it is a hit for half? That is very nice indeed!

The thinking there is along the lines of the switch in PF for attacking incorporeal enemies: instead of missing half the time (3.0, 3.5), you do half damage now (PF). In any event, Crushing Blow previously started off lame and scaled so that, by the time you got a decent bonus with it, you were already auto-hitting and didn't care about an additional bonus. I think it's better now, in that it directly gives you a noticeable advantage against all armored opponents.

Evasion you need light armor, does this talent work the same way. If so, would it work if you can get the armor's ACP to 0?

That's a good question! Obviously, I never thought of that. Let me ponder the ramifications a bit and get back to you.

In my home campaign, I ruled that 0 ACP armor could be used with evasion. The fighters had gotten their ACP down to zero so they could run in heaviest armor, but not all of then chose to get evasion.

Kirth-

We are looking to run kirthfinder in my home game. A question came up about the domain power feat described in the cleric section. Ummm where is it?

I am sure this is covered in the thread on the rules but I did not see it in the egg of coot errata.

Thanks

If it's not in the errata, it was probably corrected in the final mailing. Either way, go ahead and ask the question here (or there) and I'll be happy to answer it though.

It looks to me that the text conflicts with itself. In the cleric document, under domain access, it makes reference to a domain power feat but then it never gets mentioned again. We can't find it in the feat section either. Does a cleric get he powers of both domains automatically?

Thanks

Yeah, bad editing on my part, from an idea I had that never quite worked out. I'll issue an official erratum later on, but for now, yes, you get both domain powers.

That's what we thought.

Thanks

I haven't really found having both Shared Shield and Shield Ally as useful as I thought they would be when I picked them up at the last rules rebuild. Since the latest version, I'd like to go back to having Fast Recovery, which is the feat I swapped out for Shared Shield last time.

What do you think?

I wouldn't argue. I still think the feats you picked would have been awesome if we'd had a standard mix (i.e., squishies to protect), but since we're fighter-heavy (plus a couple of little guys who stay back out of the action), they're not pulling the kind of duty you'd normally expect.

That was my experience. I was hoping to have a battle-wizard up in the front lines spraying AoE's everywhere while I kept him safe and sound. Not really anyone in this group that needs that kind of support.

Kelgan's been thinking about the best way to take down the evil wizard in the keep and he's going to be practicing more with his crossbow instead of being in melee so much. He's going to try to adapt his phalanx style to work with a heavy crossbow instead of his glaive.

Interesting idea... I hadn't thought about that.

Yeah, you can shoot a heavy crossbow 1 handed, but not load it. With the tower shield as a firing platform, I'd make a medieval turret. We have a plethora of melee. I'd stand back with the squishies and blast away. That way I'd be near the people that might need my help if we get flanked or an enemy approaches from the rear.

Also, I don't have Jaegr's rock-crushing, skull-crushing, world-crushing pick, so the crossbow is a better weapon than my glaive would be.

The logic is sound. Thinking about it, you could fire the crossbow 1-handed, then use Sleight of Hand to jugglingly reload 1-handed. Your Dex is pretty good, and we'd let you Take 10 for that, to avoid extra rolls in combat. We just need to set a reasonable DC; given that you've already bought Phalanx Style, I don't see why that wouldn't re-set the (nominally higher) DC to something like 11, which you could reliably hit with a single rank.

When you get some more numen, spring steel as a material is a good addition for your crossbow, so that you can keep up damage-wise.

That is a very cool idea Kelgan!

Yeah I was looking at getting a spring steel crossbow, and taking sleight of hand for manyshot as well. I'll probably want to retrain combat reflexes into something else at some point (like manyshot), but we'll see.

I think it really takes two hands cause you have to hold the crossbow and crank. If I've got a notch in the top of the shield to hold it, cranking is a one-handed operation, as is setting a bolt.

We needed some more ranged combat capabilities, and I figured nothing stops an evil wizard from casting like a crossbow bolt to the noggin! I'm also looking into taking Strike Team Leader, Alertness and Alert Bodyguard to keep us from getting ambushed.

That all sounds good to me. I look forward to seeing it in action!
The ability to hold actions means that a wizard without bodyguards or very good defenses is very unlikely to get a spell off with you pre-emptively blasting him.

I'm using Weapon aptitude to switch my exotic proficiency from glaive to crossbow.

I'll need to get class skill in Sleight of Hand, cause I don't get that one as a fighter. Perhaps retraining skill focus from heal to sleight of hand.

Actually, Sleight of Hand is problematic. Even with a rank in sleight of hand, my bonus is swamped by my armor check penalty. I have -9 ACP from tower shield and full plate, even after accounting for masterwork, armor training, and endurance. I'll need to get my crossbow enchanted with Reloading Hands in order to reload while using the shield, or just forgo the sheild entirely in less threatening situations.

Plus, shooting the heavy crossbow one-handed incurrs a -4 penalty. I'll have to figure out a better way to create dwarf tank (pun intended - slow, smelly, heavily armored, projectile shooting military machine)

Actually Caspian can aid another and being all "helpful" totally negates that -4 penalty..If I can use aid another to help aim?

Get a spyglass, an anemometer, and a sextant and you can be the spotter to my gunner. I'll fire two-handed till the enemy closes, then I'll put up the shield and fire one handed and you stand by me and reload and I'll keep them from hitting you at all.

And exotic proficiency gives you Fell Shot with the Heavy Crossbow. I've used that to deadly effect as a GM in my home campaign, looking to use it to similar effectiveness here.

That's a nice idea -- if Caspian sings, he can reload while maintaining an inspiration, and being under Kelgan's shield keeps him from getting hit with stray attacks.

Also, add the following text to the Phalanx Fighter feat:
Synergy: When using this feat with a tower shield, you can brace a crossbow against the shield and fire one-handed without the usual penalty. You still cannot reload one-handed, however, without using the Sleight of Hand skill.

Hey all I am traveling for work next week and not sure what my internet connection is going to be like. If things get hairy and I am delinquent in posting, blame the Dutch.

I am waiting to see if Kirth raided a map from the whispering cairn for us....

I am going to!

Tempting! But too many people have played that one; every time I port in bits of it, players groan and throw stuff at me.

Throws virtual cookies at kirth

Never knew the beverly hillbilles theme song would ever come in handy.....

I've been reading through the fighter section again, and really like the Order of the Shield. Their edicts, name, and ethos align closely with what Kelgan believes.

I'd like to take Knightly Order as my 5th level fighter talent, and work in some in-game material leading up to that.

Right on! No one in the playtesting has taken orders of knighthood yet, so this will be good to see.

And when Caspian begins enraging enemies by singing a song about how they are hard for the bard......

Kirth does kirthfinder have the taunt (kender ability) in it?

Kirth does kirthfinder have the taunt (kender ability) in it?

You've got a couple of possibilities. If you want to inflict combat penalties by taunting someone, use the Bluff skill to intimidate and refer to "shaken" as "enrages" (same condition, all you're doing is swapping out the fluff). If you want to simulate the kender's bonus to these checks, you could grab Skill Focus as a feat.

If you want to force people to actually attack you, select compel hostility as a 1st level spell known. You could then cast it as a spell or use it as an inspiration.

Any chance we are getting a map for the shootout at the Ok corral, I mean a map of town before we burn it down, I mean a map so we can see where everything is?