Kingmaker: The Stolen Lands [Gestalt]

Game Master Æroden

i did not realize he had a high CHA

Sorcerer/Oracle, or Sorcacle as it should be known, was one of my first thoughts too. There are also some other pretty sweet combos that could happen too.

Sorcerer/Summoner - Has his own personal bodyguard to help tank when needed, or to just protect the squishy king so the fighters can all be up front instead of protecting my ass.

Wizard/Witch has great synergy.

Wizard/Inquisitor could be interesting, given abilities like Stern Gaze that make him very intimidating and impossible to lie to.

I get what Torq was saying about play at high levels, but we do need to be honest in these situations too... how many PbP games play straight through until reaching level 9? My record is level 4, and I've only seen a few games that have gone as high as level 6, and that generally takes about 3+ years of PbP play. At that rate getting to level 9 from level 3 would probably take just as long... and while that may happen, that's a lot of time to spend with suboptimal abilities.

Edit: Oh, another idea that occurs to me only works if the GM can be convinced to allow a 3.5 feat, but a Wizard/Monk with the Kung Fu Genius feat would be pretty awesome.

i like soracle!

What is the alignment scheme of the group/future kingdom?

I assume N or NG

Well Torq is CG, but he started as a bandit so.. i would say he ends up as NG before long.. Our Kingdom is deff looking like it will have Chaotic Influence though lol..

My vote would be for a Soracle as well.. We need the arcane and another divine caster would be great.. The summoner sounds cool too, but i dunno if Wolf allows those.. Their a pain in the ass to gm with the 1000 critters they can summon... I would vote Wizard/Sorc before that.. With the Sage Wildblooded Bloodline you can use your Int for all spells so you wouldnt have to rely on dual stats..

OK, I can start looking at the Sorcacle. Probably Life or Lore I would guess...

I'll roll up some stats to work with until I hear from wolf as to whether he'll let me use that other set I rolled up before...

I'm thinking Half-Elf, or possibly Aasimar. Do you know how favoured classes are going to work? Will each character get both their main classes, or have to choose one or the other?

I didn't see anything in the OP's that indicated restrictions on classes, but you never know; a lot of people don't like Summoners. I rather like the idea and think it could work pretty well for a King type.

I believe its one fav class bonus, not one for each.. I think you can pick which side u want if you like an optional fav class bonus..

And yea i dont think he's put any restrcitions on class i just know alot of DM's dont allow them is why i mentioned it.. Have to ask him i suppose..

A Peri-Blood Aasimar would put that to a 19 Int and a 20 Cha.. Or Azata for a 19 dex, 20 cha..

The Fav class bonus for Aasimar Oracles is real realy good btw.. You prob knew that though.. If you selected your channel and added the 2 dice channel headband to ur stat headband than at 20th ur channels would be 17d6 lol.. Quicken Channel would allow 34d6 of healing per round just from channels rofl..

Perikin sounds pretty cool actually. I could definitely picture that. Aasimar got a lot more interesting after the alternate bloodlines and alternate abilities were created.

Alternate Physical Features: 1d100 ⇒ 83
Variant Aasimar Abilities: 1d100 ⇒ 90

One of the reasons I had thought of Half-Elf was the Multi-talented trait. Two favoured classes instead of one.

Might wanna make sure Wolf is alright with the Variant Assimar stuff.. Normally a feat is required to take them and you roll 3d100 and pick, although rolling a 90 is prob abt the best you could ask for.. +2 extra cha is nice.. Might be worth the feat regardless..

True and true. Many GM's allow a single roll without the feat, at least most that I've run into thus far, but each GM sets his own rules.

Parts of this is just feeling out options, so I'm not making the assumption of writing anything in stone, just throwing it out there to see what is possible.

Yeah, I have been struggling to get back to this, but since I post primarily from work and we're in over our heads right now, this is getting ridiculous. Every time I try to post I'm distracted! I think I would definitely want to return to this in the future when things slow down, it's just that right now, I can barely get anything worthwhile in.

We understand Klaus, RL takes precedence.. Im sure Wolf will hold a spot for you should things get better..

Yeah, haven't gotten into Tomas's background with the crew yet, but he is bastard child of a noble, trained in his father's house, so he has the diplomatic background, as well as a trade background. Also when he gestalts it will either be Sorcerer or Bloodrager (if it's allowed)

Yup, there are many spot left open for those that wish to return including Klaus.

favored class bonus only for one of the classes, unless half-elf.

Not going with the new classes.

I have never played a summoner nor had anyone play one before. You will be handling all that you summon. Inquisitor, Ranger, or something a bit rustic would likely help the group more than the others, but sorcerer/oracle would still be very helpful.

Yes you will have to sacrifice a feat for the bonus on Aassimar. You also may roll d100 for both of them again and choose from the options.

Rictus what do you want to play?

Krazok will be getting his next level, I was thinking cleric, but I can change that easy enough to cover whatever you don't.

Gang do you want me to see if Arsil would like to join us as well as Rictus?

sure I like Arsil

BUT THIS WAS IGNORED. WITH KLAUS LEAVING WHO IS HANDLING PARTY LOOT? We really need someone to step up here. I am doing it in two other games so it really is not all that hard to do

I said earlier that I would do it. No prob.

Oh you did? Well I'm a dickweed

Sorry I must have missed a post

There is no emoticon for my embarassment

Boo on no warpriest.. I was looking forward to solving my fighter/cleric delima.. As is well i suppose.. Grrr...

Well, if you go Cleric, let me know, as I won't worry so much about covering off the healing aspect.

Edit: Well Wolf was saying he's likely to go Cleric too, and I missed that the first time. Guess I will not have to worry about healing regardless, as it seems someone will be covering it.

Fizzy is retry healery but he does joy have anyway to aoe heal

That's the nice thing about Clerics; they all get Channel Energy.

With Cleric covered, possibly twice, my mind is returning again to the Summoner.

Does anyone have any objection to the Master Summoner Archetype? I've never used it before, but know some dislike it. I have one in one of the games I run, and it seems to work well for PbP. A usual complaint is that summoning multiple creatures bogs down the game and takes too long, but on PbP I'd be controlling the creatures during my turn, so it would not add to anyone's workload, the GM's or the other players.

What I have in mind is to set up the more limited Eidolon that the Master Summoner gets for non-combat use, making him my valet and giving him high ranks in social skills, basically to be able to assist me as Diplomancer, and to be a second set of eyes using his high Sense Motive skill on everyone I deal with socially. This is a use I've never seen an Eidolon used for, and it strikes me as rather novel. In combat, he'd dismiss the valet and use monster summoning to supplement his sorcerous blasting.

Thoughts?

Devils advocate.

It would be a pain for dm if he has to bot, also there are many npcs already.

Well is Krazok gestalting or Selena? Or both? Wolf mentioned cleric for Krazok, but is he multiclassing or gestalting..

I will be going fighter as my other side.. My cloak has some sorta ties to Desna so i wanted to explore that more by worshipping her, but my build needs the fighter feats so ill just have to figure that out without actually being divine.. Thats why the Warpriest interested me so much..

I was looking for what feat I'd need to take in order to be able to get the Variant abilities and discovered that there is no such feat for Aasimar. What was being referred to is the Fiendish Heritage feat in regards to Tieflings, who at one time needed the feat to be able to select an alternate heritage or roll on the Variant abilities table. It appears that this was done at a time when Teiflings were not considered a playable race, and the feat was basically a feat tax to offset the perceived power of the Teifling vs. core races. This now appears to have been considered campaign specific to Counsil of Thieves, and is rarely used anymore, and is not even required in PFS to select Alternate heritages.

There's a thread on it here and another here.

There is no feat to allow a Aasimar to take an alternate lineage, nor one that allows you to roll on the variant ability chart; all that is needed is GM permission. It appears that when used these days, the Tiefling feat allows a Tiefling to roll three times and choose the best result, whereas the usual practice without the feat is to allow only a single roll. Players are also encouraged to request a particular alternate ability, at the GM's discretion, if it fits with a particular concept. I'd be more than happy with the one I rolled.

Devils advocate.

It would be a pain for dm if he has to bot, also there are many npcs already.

Good point. I'm usually pretty reliable, but occasions arise for all when they can't access a computer for one reason or another. The archetype is just an idea, and like anything, up to the GM to either allow or not. That's why I'm bringing it up before I bother to put all the crunch together.

i tell you what Fizzy would love…First World Summoner

:) not super powerful, buuuut FAE!!!

i think both are gestating, i know selena is going cleric of calistra with lust domain

actually the first worlder eidolon gets these skills

Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Fly, Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nature), Perception, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Swim, and Use Magic Device.

Hey guys. I am getting on a plane at 7:15pmCalifornia time and will be flying to the other side of the world. I will update from the airport in CA, then again on my long layover from the airport in London. I will then post a couple times away from the Middle East, but of course I will be on a weird time zone. So If I am a player in your game then please bot as necessary. If I am your GM, my apologies for any slow down that we have for the coming few weeks. However since there is a holiday coming I suspect there will be a slow down in any event.

Rigor here. Here is a rough version of my character. He still has a little polishing to do on the crunch, and background and such will be forthcoming after I know if I'm keeping him this way.

So what are you dropping for the alternate ability roll?

Sorry been rather busy recently, please give me a link to the alternate class selection.

Looks pretty good Rictus.

He drops the spell like ability usually granted to his race. Each of the Aasimar varieties has a different spell they can access. The default Aasimar race has Daylight; the Perikin has Pyrotechnics.

Tattooed Sorcerer

Master Summoner

Season's greetings to all.

I was asked by DM Wold to show my face down here.

As i have never played kingmaker (although i do know what it is about) i was directed to ask my questions here:

How far into the ap are you?
Creation rule (hp/ level / etc...)
what do you feel the party needs / lack ?

anything else?

hey Arsil!! Meet Vuvu's alter ego

Not sure what we need ATM. We are Gestalt, though I do not remember what the original build rules were yo will have to go look. We are still in book one, getting near the end of it I believe.

As to what we need…maybe something ranged?

If Rigor goes through with his design we will have:

Bard/Witch-Buffs/Heals/Skills/Pie Making
Fighter/Rogue-Melee Damage/Skills
Fighter/Sorc-Melee Damage/Arcane
Sorc/Summoner-Arcane/Summons/Skills

Npcs
Fighter/Cleric?-Melee Damage
Ninja/Cleric?-Melee Damage/Skills

So yea we dont have a physical ranged character..

Ranger/Zen Archer would prob be redic..

I think we rolled 5d6 7 times and dropped the lowest 2 to determine actual scores than out of those 7 we dropped the lowest.. We could then subtract up to -3 from one to add it to another i believe.. Correct me if im wrong Wolf.. Example:

5d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 5, 6, 4) = 20-5=15
5d6 ⇒ (2, 2, 5, 3, 4) = 16-4=12
5d6 ⇒ (1, 2, 5, 2, 6) = 16-3=13
5d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 6, 3, 6) = 26-8=18
5d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 5, 1, 5) = 21-5=16
5d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 3, 2, 5) = 19-5=14
5d6 ⇒ (1, 6, 1, 4, 2) = 14-2=12

Drop a 12 and then subtract 3 from a 12 and add to the 15 for an 18..

Final Stats:
18
18
16
14
13
9

At least i think thats how we did it..

that sounds right torq

Actually, most of the regular archery volley feats don't work with Flurry of Arrows, so a Ranger/Zen Archer combo might not be as great as you think.

Fighter/Ranger Might work better, or perhaps a Fighter/Divine Hunter Paladin.

Another interesting idea occurs to me that doesn't really get to start having fun until level 4, but that is to have a dedicated archer class of one variety or another crossed with an Alchemist with the Explosive Missile discovery. Zen Monk might be a good investment for this one since if you are restricted to firing one explosive arrow per round anyway, you may not want to invest in the Rapid Shot/Manyshot feats as much as with other builds. When not firing explosives, he uses flurry, and as sending off a massive barrage, almost as good as the others above. Since he's got the high INT for Alchemist, he could also add in Focussed Shot. All of Focussed Shot, Vital Strike, and Explosive Missile are listed as Standard actions, but I haven't done the research to see if there has been any answer to whether they could all be used together, but it would be pretty sweet if they could. GM call, probably.

HERE is the link to all the party loot Rigor.

you seem to be missing clustered shot…unless i am blind

Added the Loot list to my profile; I'll try to neaten it up when I get a chance.

Edit to my archer post above: As is probably predictable, the killjoys over at the FAQ have said that Focussed Shot and Vital strike don't combine in the default rules. By RAW, the rule would probably be the same for Explosive Missile since the wording is very similar. However, look like a lot of people dislike this ruling and have houseruled it away. However, even without bothering to include Vital Strike and Focussed shot, the idea of a rapid flurrying monk archer who whenever he needs to just pulls up short and launches a Kabooom arrow that takes out a whole group of guys is just lovely.

EditEdit: You're right, I did miss Clustered Shot. Not sure what I would sub out for it... Probably wouldn't bother on the Paladin build, as when using Smite he ignores DR anyway. On the other builds, probably would ditch Vital Strike if the RAW rules were held, since it loses its utility.

well, if it is not allowed, that is ok. I don't think you will find anyone that thinks a dedicated archer is underpowered!!

:)

Hey vuvu,

Alright i'll roll something, but it will be a straight character i don't do gestalt

do you do windows?

Just a heads up Rigor, most of us do not have our full gestalt abilities so Wolf might not let u come in a full 3/3, just saying..

Why wouldnt u roll a gestalt Arsil? You will need it to be on par with the rest of us.. I fully expect Wolf to up the challenges based on gestalts, so if you are not you might get squished..

so far i am the only one who does, and i started before we even talked about going gestalt

Just a heads up Rigor, most of us do not have our full gestalt abilities so Wolf might not let u come in a full 3/3, just saying..

Good to know. I am currently made up as a full 3/3, so hopefully Wolf will let me know quickly if I need to scale that back before I arrive at the completed version. In his initial review he stated it looked good, so maybe he does intend full gestalts will soon be the norm?

Why wouldnt u roll a gestalt Arsil? You will need it to be on par with the rest of us.. I fully expect Wolf to up the challenges based on gestalts, so if you are not you might get squished..

I had wondered about that too. As I mentioned, the gestalt game I ran just a little while ago managed to take 6 6th levels through a 12th level module, with 4 survivors. Now, to be clear, these were severely min-maxed characters who were designed with the challenge in mind, and three of the survivors were synthesists, but it is still very clear that gestalt characters function well above their usual APL. In most cases you wouldn't be able to just double the CR like I did when picking a module, but in the case of the Synthesist gestalts, it really did about double their power level. Usually, I would think the target would be more like a 50% increase in CR and difficulty.

Rigor Rictus, it all depends on that background of yours, you best come up with some good reasons why you are gestalt let alone why you are 3rd level. Also don't forget the basics.

Right I had expected to increase the CR by about 50%. Also the more players you have than 4 increase the CR by some too.

Yeah, I don't see any problems with those classes Rigor.