Its "A" Dungeon, Too: The Second Chance (Inactive)

Game Master Terquem

See, this is why I am abandoning Pathfinder in favor of 5e

So you have these Armor Classes (AC, Touch, and Flat Footed)then the game tells you

WAIT, that's not all!

See there is another way to resolve some combat actions and we call it the "Combat Maneuver"

And you calculate your bonus to perform this thing, and your enemies defense against it, differently

Only, wait, no, um we sort of screwed up, and um, okay created a whole bunch of combat modifying situations to regular attack rolls that players now want applied to Combat Maneuvers, so, um, okay, wait, so Flat Footed is no Dex, and so no dex to Combat Maneuver Defense if you are flat footed, but wait if you are a barbarian, and, ARGHHHHHHH!

Yeah, I don't want to be troubled by that level of complexity. I'm old and can't use my brain as well as I was able to many years ago

You still missed! His Flat Footed AC is 20!

Muwahahahahaha

I will edit the post to remove the AoO, no damage to Tofutee

My problem is that Pathfinder, and everything before it, essentially says: Your options are: Attack and back away slowly.

If you want any other option, you either have to spec into it, or you have to class into it.

The more complex a system the more fiddly loop holes show up.
Just like its predecessors 5e will expand in complexity as the yeara go by. Though I will say that I appreciate that system for its removal of the magic item treadmill that editions before it had.
Next time I do something weird like that ill make sure to include a crunch spoiler so you dont have to overtax your GMly brain. I do that normally in other games as well.

You have a great point Misty, for me, coming from a world where most of my experience is from 35+ years ago, I don't see why other options even need rules. For me, its

Attack (there are rules for dat)
Run Away (yeah, go ahead and try, hahahah)

Think of something else and work out with the DM what it is going to take to get a success or not, roll a die, live with the results.

Now, I think that Movin is hands down one of the top, THE TOP, players around here in both knowledge, game mastery, and role playing ability. I love the guy,

But, here is where I have trouble. You see if you can build a character with a +9 to +13 range modifier in attacks and CM, then all my CR's have to go out the window, unless I want to go to the monsters and play around with them (within the rules mind you) so that I am on the same level of mastery as the player with the superior build, and in a lot of games I'm willing to do that

but this one, and the other "A" game I want to try to keep straight out of the PRD, to keep in with the random generated promise it is supposed to fulfill. And Seriously, Tofutee pushes that envelope hard, but I love it, and I will push back on the nuances where the rules can go either way.

You have a point there. Much as it amsues me to make the chainsaw death rogue my bonus to attack at this level is rather ridiculous.
Im entirely wiling to remove some of tofutees 'teeth' in this situation to make things simpler, I just dont notice stuff like that unless its mentioned though. Many times not even then as my skull is quite dense and requires an epic clue bat to get the poi t acfoss properly.
One of those pitfalls players get into with the desire to be good at their particular niche.

Though that wont prevent me from hucking nets and other unexpected things at your creatures.

u_u everyone always hates me for taking skill focus.

eeek, maybe I should have let you guys take away his shield, yikes.

How can the people at d20psfrd think that that spell is balanced in any way. It completely wipes the floor with the second level Druid Spell, heat metal.

Auto Disarm/or Auto Damage?

Heat metal -keeps happening-. And it's paizo, not d20pfsrd. :P they just keep track of it.

Now, granted, fighting something for 6 rounds to get the full effect is kind of unlike, buuuut. Heat Metal also works on anything wearing anything, though only minimum damage. Plus, the enemy -has- to carry a 'weapon' to be targeted by burning disarm. :)

Even still: yeah, it's kinda nasty for a single target spell.

Looked at from another angle, though, it really isn't all that much damage. It's 1d4/CL to one target, which is the same amount of damage burning hands (another first-level spell) does to as many creatures as you can pack into a 15 ft. cone. I rolled nearly max damage. It could just as easily have been 3 damage. Would you think that was OP?

It's more that a 2nd level druid spell does 8d4 max, it's slightly easier to use, and happens over an extreme period of time (seriously, 6 rounds to do 8d4 is... forever. It doesn't even -do- anything until the next turn.)

Also, something I missed: Heat metal affects multiple targets. That's also a thing. A big thing. Did it always do that?

Also... wording makes it an odd spell to 'extend'

Old school druid spells are classic army killers.
Heat metal might suck against one enemy in front of you but how about when you cast it against a group of unaware enemies in badger form.
Create wind and water are not all that fantastic until you consider the raw damage those elememnts can do to stuff like army camps or towns.

Actually, that was a Knee Jerk reaction. It isn't that bad of a spell, I just got taken off guard by the format of

"If you fail the save, this bad stuff happens"

but

"If you make the save, well, then, this different bad stuff happens"

Well, it's still powerful, in the right situations. Does the miniature really want to take 5d6? No. But given the choice of that, or dropping his weapon... it's still a painful choice when used correctly. :)

I find it amusing that as a player who has cast that spell before I was actually hoping for NPC's to succeed the check and drop their weapon rather than taking a small amount of fire damage.

Shall have to see what this guy chooses but strictly mechnics wise the halfling could chose to drop his sword and fight with his claw natural weapon instead. It would be a die step down but it would also mean he doesn't provoke.

Can an armored skeleton pout? 'cause, that's what he is going to do.

What, the monsters in the dungeon get to have feeligns and opinions now?
Clearly It'Duprees training videos of proper Monster/Adventurer interaction rules didn't sink into this particular skull.
I mean that Ghoul? great form right there, blow past any form of bargaining and go straight for the throat.
.
.
I mean he got turned into paste by a mini-taur but still...

I'm seeing a singular problem with how the game is set up, for casters.

In normal dnd, you have round winners, multiple round spells, fight-long spells, multiple fight spells, effectively eternal spells... And then seriously eternal spells.

As it stands... I'm being really stingy with Misty's spells. Most of them are minutes-duration. In a normal campaign, I'd never hesitate to throw out a magic weapon. But in this setup, I have to ration my spells, lest everyone is forced to wait a day. Combine with the fact that a three minute spell will sometimes last multiple fights, and in this setting, it never will.

I'm thinking, during her next prayer time, I'll focus her on rounds, ten minutes, and hours. That should help me determine if a spell is worth casting. :)

I think there is a whole conversation that can be had over

Designing spell duration to match play style

versus

Encouraging Play Style to match spell duration design

Being one of those players who has played every version of the game, but in a decidedly different style from most people who are playing today, I get some of what you are saying

(see, in my games it was not common, ever, for a party to encounter one monster within minutes of fighting another, mainly because we measured time in "turns" being ten minutes long, and pretty much always insisting on a full turn of rest, before moving back into the hall, or opening another door)

and this was my style

Of course, I knew of other games where DM were hell bent on destroying parties and would throw encounters at a group one right after the other. Now it seems to me that designers, particularly the 3.0 crowd until today, were used to this sort of thing and spell durations started to be recalculated to fit the fifteen minute day adventuring philosophy.

I could go on and on, but for the most part, you'll do alright no matter how you manage your spells.

Remember, it is pointless to try to out smart the DM in this adventure

The DM isn't using his brain for very much here, really, he isn't, he's just having a good time.

What I mean is, I'm sporting a lot of razor's edge spells. I don't feel like it's worth casting a second level spell if that's all I do for the fight. I could see me dropping bless. Bless is a great short term spell. But my mindset is that I want spells with an okay duration to have larger impacts than what is possible. So... ten minute spells are my new quota for okay duration. Some minute long spells are still worth using, but for the most part, I'm honestly on the opposite side from the fifteen minute day. I want spells that last for hours. Not parlor tricks that win fights in an instant. :p

Does that make sense?

Each character receives 150 experience points for defeating the Skeletal Champion

edit - thanks for reminding me Misty

Characters should be at
5955 experience points total

XP = 5955

EXITS!

Rolls: 3d20 ⇒ (8, 1, 14) = 23

So there is 1 exit

It is on the opposite wall from our entrance.

It is a passageway.

Well, you might ask, what is in this passageway Tofutee?
WELL I'LL TELL YOU!
Rolls: 5d20 ⇒ (13, 1, 10, 1, 18) = 43

Next room is a chamber.

Straight ahead

its 30x60

In this room is a trick/trap

the room has a trap with CR=DL+1 (we are on level 2 i think so CR3?)

trap type: 1d20 ⇒ 13 It's a melee attack trap.

The entrances to this chamber (if there are any more exits, they will be trapped as well)

are trapped with a melee Attack trap, Tofutee didn't spot the trigger as she entered the chamber, but a Take 20 will turn up the right pressure plate on the floor with ease.

Disarming the trap, will require a roll, the DC is 20, now that the Imp knows your size, she'll adjust the gears and chains and try to hit you with the axe if you fail to disable the plate on the floor.

The entrance you came in is trapped, and all exits you discover will be as well, but you only get 160 experience points for disabling the trap no matter how many times you succeed (no matter how many traps are discovered).

If you fail to disable the trap, you are attacked with a +15 modifier for d12 damage

Alright then, lets see how many disable checks I need to make.

#exits: 1d20 ⇒ 6
there is one exit.
moar dice!: 7d20 ⇒ (3, 17, 5, 4, 17, 14, 20) = 80
Opposite wall
A door.
Door is a metal portcullis
Its locked
Its trapped
DC20+DL disable device to open it

Has an obvious trap attached to it (DL -1)

Oh and then there is the axe.

EDIT:
Oh dice gods, tell me what is beyond thine steely portcullis. Is it loot?
Moar dice!: 1d20 ⇒ 7

NAE! tis a door!
DOOR! WHAT ARE THE?: 3d20 ⇒ (1, 14, 16) = 31
Tis a metal door
Unlocked but stuck (DC28 to open)
with nary a trap on it.

Mah, hope all this build up is worth it. Behind three traps a portcullis and a door made of steel.
Is?
Im betting its emptyness and a sad trombone.

I don't think that was correct, you can't get a door from the table "space beyond door is". Right now I am away from the house and computer, posting from my touch pad, I'll check as soon as I get home

Ah, alrighty. Im also not at home but if you dont have a chance to by the time I get home from work ill see if I can find where I went wrong.

Correction!
My first roll was a 7 followed by a 1
7+1= There is a passage way behind the metal portcullis perpendicular to the entrance and leading off 60ft.
It is 5ft wide.
However if you would prefer to not reuse dice.

Perception: 2d20 ⇒ (17, 19) = 36
17+19= there is a room. 20x50
dice: 3d20 ⇒ (10, 5, 18) = 33
Containing a monster, APL+1, Using monster table 2.
dice: 1d100 ⇒ 97
A group or swarm of vermin
Crap.

We will stick with your original roll, a passageway heading away from the portcullis.

Now, it is still a metal Portcullis and will require teamwork to lift it (overcome the strength DC required to open it) if you all want to go off in that direction.

Each character receives

300 experience points for triggering, and ultimately deactivating three different traps.

Current experience points 6,255 each

*DING*

everyone is now 4th level

Please take a moment to level your alias, and update all pertinent information

Hit Points should be rolled, but you can reroll any result of "1"

We're on fast XP track right? If so....

DING!

If not act like I never said anything.

Ninjed by the DM

HP: 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (2) + 3 = 5

+1 Fort, +1 Will, +1 BAB, +1 1st level spell, +1 second level spell.

HP: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (6) + 2 = 8

I will pick the additional spells and such at the next 8 hour rest. :)

HP: 1d6 + 1 ⇒ (6) + 1 = 7

What about the two free spells for my spellbook? Do I get those now, or do I have to leave the dungeon to get them?

Urg, I really hate the "two free spells thing," but...

Yes you of course get them, but let's say that to put them in your spell book you need to make time to do that, you can do that in the dungeon (you brought your spell book with you, what are you, insane!, or just crazy enough to be a genius?) but the conditions are not favorable. We'll use the same rules for copying a spell into your spell book (as far as time required goes). Now all you have to do is convinced the others to find a safe place to do the work, and roll for the required WME chances

Gain +1Bab, +1 reflex, Trap find/disable mods increase by 1 now as well because even number.
HP: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (3) + 2 = 5

Blegh.
But I've got skill points, uncanny dodge and a rogue talent waiting for me once we go back into town. Thinking trap spotter or Terrain training.
What terrain type is the dungeon, underground or urban?

Let me know when everyone is done, I'll review aliases for information that I am confused by, and then we'll decide where to explore next.

I'm good. I messsed with upgrading skills a little. :)

+1 wisdom (as expected). No new class features. Like every cleric ever :|

On the bright side: I also noticed some flaws. I had breastplate as 5/3 instead of 6/3. I forgot size bonuses and penalties for being small. I updated it so that I had a feat for third level rather than something I couldn't have until I'd earned it (dodge).

So Misty is now a little half-tin-can of selfprotection and light spells. With some healing.

Okay, as the Portcullis has not been lifted, you really can't explore beyond the 30 feet you can see heading off into the distance. After you've decided (if you decide) to open the portcullis, we'll use Tofutee's rolls to set up what is after the first 30 feet of passageway perpendicular to the Portcullis.

*blink*
Wait are we doing a full level or are we using the house rule in the campaign info stuff?

Secondly. is This rogue talent too silly to select for this game? because challenging a monster to a dance contest with the save DC based off my skill ranks in dancing sounds far too entertaining to pass up otherwise.
I mean I suppose that I could select something useful like the trap detection talent but still.

My bad. I'd forgotten why I -hadn't- listed skills. The feat acquisition is something I'd done long ago when it was pointed out I couldn't have the feat I selected. I just hadn't updated the AC until now since we were leveling up. Her Culinary, Religion, and Spellcraft should still be one lower than what is listed. I'll rectify that.

All fixed again. Want me to keep the dodge bonus gone?

I think I'm ready.

Yeah I'm set whenever, I can't select my rogue talent util we rest anyway so I'll save my question about trapping foes in infectious dance numbers until then.
Larg gets more muscles and Bud gets another arcanist ability. Well also level 2 spells but who cares about those?

I'm ready. +1 to dex to make it 16, took WF(Longsword) as my feat. Also I now have a few rounds of rage a day.

Forgot to do hp

1d10 + 3 ⇒ (7) + 3 = 10

Day 6, turn 111, approximate time of day 6:20 (turn 4 of 6)

Maybe I haven’t mentioned this, I thought I did, but here we go. Opening Stuck Doors – the party can take 20 on opening stuck doors, using tolls, and assists, and applying all the relevant modifiers, and then in this case I will roll a d6, this is the number of “rounds” it takes to get that door open. On any roll other that a “1” there is no chance to surprise a monster that might be on the other side of the door. If the party wants to try a Strength Check to open a stuck door, they can make the roll and hope to open it in the first try. Does this make sense?

With nothing to prevent us from doing so we don't actually need to make a roll to open the door stacking modifiers to a +8 or higher will let us get it.

@Larg when you gain rage powers you might consider the Strength surge power on the chance we need to open one of these quickly at some point.
Also combat maneuvers for those times you would really like to punt a bad guy into next tuesday.
Though Reckless Abandon is absolutely amazing as well

I actually love strength surge, and as I'm making a strong man for a campaign I'm playing in, I'll bear it in mind to swap that into my build down the line. :)

Yeah, barbarian rage powers are always the best part of the class. So many of them give powers you just can't access with other marital types. Though I don't get a chance to run barbarians very often. The rest of my homegroup doesn't like the complexity of pathfinder casters so I usually get tapped to play them.

You know with that whole "Cannot use skills that require patience or concentration" during a rage, I'm half tempted, on non portcullis doors, to rule that Larg would have to randomly roll to see if he was pushing when he should be pulling and vice versa.