GM Demonmoose "Lords of Rust" Campaign

Game Master GM Demonmoose

Well we would have some issues RP wise but this here is a Paladin.. Skald. He is your antithesis basically, the only thing he might share in common is brutality when pissed. And since he is of Ragathiel it gets brutal.

You don't have a code of honor to protect those who do not wish to fight? I thought that was pretty common to most Paladins.

Protecting those who do not wish to fight yes.. but He is Commanding, he is NOT nice to those he first meets, He is all about teamwork and efficiency (Most of the time). Protecting people is fine how you do it may be what he cares most about. If you place, for example, finding a kidnapped person at the top of the priority, he would be all for that, but he would not be fore that if said person's lack of teamwork endangers the mission.

So, for example, if Technic League captures Muga's semi-adopted child, Mitsu, and Muga runs off alone to save Mitsu despite doing that happens to endangering a mission to save all of Torch, Yvell would consider Muga a stupid selfish bastard? Or would Yvell only have hard feelings if Muga was messing with the mission due to one of his honor codes (such as how he treats weapons).

More if Mitsu was the mission herself and Muga kept doing so when there was no need then yes, Yvell would think those words you just mentioned. If Muga purposely sought to do things that belayed teamwork and rushed in when it would just make things worse for both him and possibly the person that they are trying to save. Yes Yvell has no issue saying those very words to him either.

Then Muga shouldn't have problems with you. If I read your implications correctly....

Yvell would understand totally if Muga hurt the mission for good-aligned reasons (such as if he was choosing between the whole town or Mitsu, Yvell would disagree with Muga, but understand Muga choosing Mitsu).

Yvell would call Muga out when his tendency to work alone, seek single combat, and fight by his own definition of honor gets in the way of the team. And he would do so bluntly. And Muga would agree with him, and appreciate the bluntness.

The primary reason Muga's code of honor is the twisted way it is, is because it helps keep himself from losing himself to guilt. He's killed his best friends, backstabbed his comrades-in-arms, slaughtered innocents, and betrayed his family. And he chose to do these things. The only way he was able to reconcile these deeds with some shred of decency was to come up with a twisted code of honor that still contained some elements of good, but also contained the atrocities he had committed.

Muga is designed to overcome his flaws and guilt and move onto Good alignment someday, if the roleplaying stars align correctly. And Yvell could be an interesting one to push him towards that, if the picture I now have of him is correct.

Thats pretty accurate.. just dd a pinch of general Tsundere Douche and you got Yvell on the money. He is a Paladin but nothing about that says he has to be a nice person even if he shows kindness different ways. Mechanically Yvell is ALL about teh buffs so a person who is actively against that might be hard to deal with and I cannot guarantee he wouldnt be up to a fight against you if need be to prove a point. But hey... your not another Sarenrae worshiper so that kinda a plus, he has history with them but the current one he is getting along with more and was working on the other before he left.

But just so we are clear you WILL be actively forgoing the bonuses Yvell gives for RP reasons and are fine with that.. correct?

Whew! The holidays kept me busy. Here's Kharmell updated for this recruitment.

Kharmel does not remember how his contentious relationship with the Technic League began. He only knows that it has always been there. His first clear memory is of him standing over the corpses of two Technic League members, his rifle still smoking. He took on with some prospectors that came looking for artifacts and proved his worth by helping to fend off marauders. In time, the group crossed paths with the Technic League. Their arrogance and bullying did not sit well with Kharmell and he fought them rather than be taken for study.
After that, Kharmell wandered Numeria trying to keep from drawing the attention of the Technic League and often failing. His most recent base of operations is Torch. He is a capable archeologist and technologist and is known as a resource for those who don’t want to involve the Technic League. He has also taken work as a guard and has helped defend the town from barbarian incursions.

How would you get a Rifle.. which is 5000 gp and an advanced Firearm which are even harder to find than Techno weapons at this juncture? Guns arent everywhere this is Golorian world.

Oh! Not really familiar with the firearm rules. I thought I could craft it with Gunsmithing. If not, that's ok. I'll just go with the musket.

Even with that rule it requires GM approval and a logistic reason to have it. And considering we cant even craft some of the lower Tehno items that cost less than this gun, its assumed thats not happening. Advanced Guns in general require almost as much research as the technological weapons surprisingly enough because they use different materials and`process for loading as well as firing. You would have to somehow develop metal jackets and a rifling system for the barrels along the lines of.. WWII.

Other than that I would say your fine.. I assume your stats include a +! to Dex at 4th?

Yes it does. I'll change the rifle for a musket. That just leaves me with money to other things with.

@Cemifobbar, I believe same types of "bonuses" do not stack, unless it explicitly says so. So two types of "armor" bonuses do not stack. Such bracers are likely for classes that don't normally wear armor or have no proficiencies, like wizards and sorcerers.

Okay! I think I've got it now. I just had to start a "caffeine rage" this morning (extra large espresso with a wee bit of lemon juice: yum, yum!). I like Auehda's advice; a +1 cloak of resistance instead of the bracers. The extra save bonuses are always good to have.

Bracers out. Cloak of resistance in (thanks for that, Auehda). I've adjusted the AC and possessions for my character. I've changed the Vital Statistics Spoiler, everything else is the same as before.

Thanks for your patience, everyone!

Čemifobbar (Dhampir Bloodrager)
Čemifobbar ("chem-if-OHB-bar") is a Dhampir who is tall, strong, lithe, and beguiling. He has a deathly white pallor, ivory-white pupils, pronounced canines, and long black hair with the sheen of glass. The most disturbing thing about his appearance, if anyone notices, is that he casts no shadow.

During the meanwhilst (how many know where that phrase came from? hint: `tis but a scratch)… If anyone could give me a critique, via PM, on the back story for Čemifobbar, it would be much appreciated. I've just been trying my hand at a wee bit of story writing. I'm just curious as to how my style and attention to detail (or lack thereof) comes across to anyone else. Thanks in advance!

I'm not exactly clear what bonuses you give Muga would ignore, Yvell.

There's Weal's champion for 1 round a day, and a teamwork feat per battle. Yeah, he'd ignore those most of the time, but I think Muga'll live.

Inspired Rage, on the other hand, sounds right up Muga's alley for something he would allow. I was even considering a Barbarian Multi-Class for Muga, but I just never figured a breakpoint for Samurai to fit it in.

What do you mean a teamwork feat per battle? Its on... forever. If he would deny one I assume he would deny all help that is why I asked.

I've done Barbarian Samurai before it is pretty fun and useful to play.. then again He was a particular playstyle that would seem overall suicidal.. here was a hint, there was NOTHING his blade did not cleave.

Oooh, it's on out of battle? Interesting, I thought it was one of those Cavalier style, "standard action to activate, everyone gets it for the rest of the fight" abilities.

Its on pretty much all the time but its him giving commands and directions. Once we hit about 7th level I believe it will always be on.. Even while sleep technically as long as he 'wakes' up, which makes for some interesting Teamwork Feat uses.

Its something that your Trade your Aura of Courage for as such it is the same as far as duration. Yvell isnt some half-assed General, he's going full on.

Forexample If we know the area has close quaters, he will have Shake it Off o and keep a tight formation to maximize Saves. If we have an open room Distracting Charge insures a steady hit rate, which fused with the 1 round Weals champion is a great opener for tough battles. Then the fact he can change it a a swift means he can get things like Outflank and give it to everyone.

"can direct her allies in battle"

I believe this is what I took note of. Much like how, while a Monk's style feats are unlimited in duration, they are during battle only. You can't just stay in style all the time, you have to go into your style at the start of every battle. You can't pre-buff yourself into style mode either.

Considering it's a standard action to drop into tactician mode, granting a teamwork feat to all your allies in return for your standard action is a tough call unless the teamwork feat is really good or the battle will be really long.

That, of course, is only my interpretation, and the GM's is the one that matters.

Yeah style Feats are different however and The tactician ability is also.. quite different thats why its better. Nothing says you have to spend that time to drop it and since Unlike a ability that says it ends at the end of combat, it has not marker. So I pretty much can start it at the beginning of the day and it stays on until there is some reason I want to turn it off.. Much like SR.. or other Auras that give effects but can be activated as a Standard.

All abilities have Fluff text but otherwise it is what it is, even the creator and developer pretty much state you can do this.

Yet, Aura of Courage, which you reference, is automatically on. It has no standard action to activate. Nor does EVERY single other unlimited Paladin aura. If you go down then get Breath of Life'd, they all instantly come back into effect.

SR, your other reference, is turned OFF by a standard action, and it automatically comes back without an action unless you spend another standard action to keep it down.

Im quite aware, but it was something off the top of my head that was on all day but required an action. Riddle me this, If this can only be used In combat, why would there even be language that required you NOT to be flat footed or Unconscious? If it only works in battle then you would only be able to activate it once your turn came up and thus be flat footed until the tie came. Which then leads to the Idea it can be done before such a thing. However in the round that you are Flat footed it does not function. However if you are not it would continue as normal, your very presence and words keeping them going. However if you were say asleep or were knocked unconscious and bright back conscious that would require you to use a standard to start the presence again as you were no longer maintaining it. This is why they give it an action type and requirements for it to maintain use.

It is NOT an Aura that is true but its does not take an action either to maintain for it lists none and its duration is not confined to only battle. It's sort of like if they took Inspire Courage and got rid of the Rounds per day aspect of it. You would still need to keep pretty much everything the same as far as qualifications. If you can't maintain it or something interferes you have to use whatever action is available to re-up the ability or change it.

As a package this is most likely why they weakened Smite somewhat to Rounds instead of Until the foe is dead. Which technically would hound them to upwards of 24 hours.

There are way to force someone into being flat-footed that don't actually involve their initiative not having come up yet. Such as an Ice Slick from the Paizo blog. Presumably, if the paladin is too busy slipping around on ice, they can't watch the battlefield and give good orders, and will have to take a standard action to take stock of the battlefield and give orders again.

As for why your smite is nerfed in duration, I'd say it's clearly because you get a mini-Aura of Justice on it. Buffing your allies hit and damage against the target in return for lower duration and personal damage is arguably a buff or a nerf depending on the party composition. Robbing from one level to give to another is a poor balancing tactic, though I admit it happens.

The rest of your arguments all hinge on the aspect of presuming that line I quoted earlier is flavor text instead of a rule restriction. Which, I can totally understand. I'm not going to bang on the GM's door and try and argue the case, because he's presumably already vetted it and said it's ok. It's a borderline case, in my opinion, where I'd rule one way, but I could totally see a GM ruling a different way.

My primary reason would be this, for which choosing to read that text as rules rather than fluff stems from. Your ability is already WAY stronger than the Cavalier's Tactician ability. Sure, they get that at level 1, but for waiting two more levels, you get unlimited per day uses, and unlimited battle duration, and swift action ability to change it. That's like the difference between being able to cast Haste once per day, and being able to cast Extended Blessing of Ferver once per fight. That's already an intense jump in power.

This is less from the GM vetting it in. In practice there is very VERY few ways off making someone count as flat footed in the game and many of them are either Monster abilities or from the Mythic Adventures book. As such there is little reason outside that line that dictates the ability is only used in battle.

Shrug I mean if that is your take on it I can't stop your games, but in general I would see no reason to mention those two conditions. Many of the abilities that used to make you flatfooted are gone.. like grease. And loosing your Dex bonus doesnt make you the same as flatfooted.

Eh point is.. its useful and makes sense for the trade-out otherwise the ability would be pretty bad in comparison, but hey, paizo has done these things before. Eve with the Author pretty much saying it works as I described.

In response to your arguement your trading the ability to be IMMUNE to fear and giving a constant bonus against said effect to everyone withing some many feat of you.. for free.. for this ability. Thus it has to be somewhat as good. As for smite it is a nerf for the ability UNLIKE the aura f Righteousness lasts rounds, does not bypass DR, does not add as much to damage or hit.

Now the important thing here being Teamwork is good mmkay. Outflank is ALWAYS that good. And funnily enough some of the "betrayal" feats.

I am curious.. what Muga would change into if his outlook changed?

Changed the Rifle to a Musket and purchased some scrolls and inscribed them into the spellbook. Kharmell is now ready.

Hah, no danger of someone taking a teamwork feat in one of my home campaigns.

No one's built a team character since a player decided to team up with the Final Boss to TPK the rest of the party. Granted, we all saw it coming, thought it was great roleplaying, and had fun quoting "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

Outlook Change: Are you asking alignment wise? He could honestly move to any of them. CG, NG, LG, they're all options.

your trading the ability to be IMMUNE to fear: Because with Divine Grace and a good Will progression, you were going to fail so many Fear Saves? Being immune to something you were going to ignore 75% of the time is nearly* irrelevant compared to the party buffs. So, really, you're trading a static but actionless party buff for an enormously flexible but action costing party buff. And considering how you've already optimized it, you're trading +4 on saves vs fear... to +4 on all saves. That's already an insanely good deal, and that's not even considering the fact that you can change it as a swift action as the situation demands.

*Except vs those stupid fear abilities that don't interact with your saving throws, which I think are stupid. Despite the fact that Muga is built around them, because it's the only way to build a Sword Saint sensibly.

Funnily enough I didnt really optimize it I asked the party what they wanted. And gave opinions, A defensive Feat and an Offensive Feat, I'm just able to utilize pretty much any of them because the ability to have them up is largely useful. Being immune to something is always a big deal, just because you have divine Grace does not mean you automake saves and a 1 is always a fail. At the level you gain the ability its possible to run into spells, abilities and creatures with Fear-based will saves anywhere from 15-19.. some that do anything from shaken you to kill you. Being immune to fear ALSO makes you immune to well used tactics like Intimidation. One of the reasons that Antipallies have an aura that invalidates that ability.

At level 3 I have a +7 will save meaning against even a DC 16 Mummies aura of PARALYSIS I need a 9 or higher And I traded out Both abilities to not die against this have this ability. It has to be a fair trade a far as that goes, One gives you teamwork feats for you Disease immunity the other gives you all day buffs for your Far immunity and buff, In that light it should make more sense.

Outlook: I mean Alignment and thus effecting what Order you may shift into or not.

But, let's not forget that you'd have a +4 bonus against that Mummy's aura from Shake it Off, because that's what you stated you'd have up in a cramped area like a tomb where you'd be within 30 ft of the mummy before having a swift action to shift to that.

So, you need a 5 or higher. The number of times your personal immunity would come up would be 1 in 5. And, because you have shake it off rather than Aura of Courage, everyone in the party is getting +4 vs mummy rot, which is HUGE. But, wait, you also traded your immunity to mummy rot? Let's see how often that would come up! 1 in 10, for giving the rest of your party +4 to their saves against it. You sacrificed a .28 probability of your immunity being helpful, for giving the whole rest of your party +4 against mummy rot. One could argue that as better or worse, depending on whether you're the best meleer in the party.

Now, this was the best possible scenario for the Base Paladin (the enemy uses fear and disease attacks, which you get immunities and buff your allies against the fear). But, what if say, a wizard casts glitterdust on the team to blind everyone? What does a base Paladin get? Er... Nothing. What does your Holy Tactician get? Everybody gets a +4 on their saves! Wooh, huge benefit!

As for outlook, I don't know. It depends on if, and how the change comes about. He might even stay ronin, but simply change his edicts. Something so tied to roleplaying depends on if the roleplaying happens the right way.

Solaria updated in profile

Just posting to say I'm still following and excited for the picks. Best of luck everybody!

Also here, also still interested.

Same. I am at the edge of my seat with anticipation. There are alot of excellent entries and it is going to be a difficult decision for GM Demonmoose. Again, good luck to everyone.

It's not that difficult if I let the groups pick themselves.

Heh, as far as I'm aware, it's the players picking. But, hey, could be wrong.

Heh, the Samurai got ninja'd.

Exactly its a voting system, the groups pick generally what they want.

@Muga

While that is the best position for the both I will note that the above requires it to fit a certain way and to choose said Teamwork feat as a frontline most likely your in the front so at most a +2-3 for you if lucky and as we mentioned doesnt apply if you dont go before then enemy OR doesnt have positioning well enough to gain it. Now I realize there is some satire in your explanation but in general the benefits depend on the player to maximize the use.

Either way I can come up with a plethora of situations where simple immunity, And Regular Smite is equal to or better than the ability you trade out. Sure its a better ability than Cavalier but the main ability of cavalier isnt tactician its the Order and Challenge. But the same can be said of Archetypes across the game much like how Vivisectionist gets all the Rogue+.

(Lol, no I didnt forget about our conversation)

Also, Green team has requested a divine caster of some kind, if you'd like to apply with one of those. If not, Green will just have less faith.
Or something. They still have their street wisdom though.

Heh, it's a good conversation, I'm glad.

Well, certainly you can come up with situations that are better for Regular Smite and regular immunity/constant aura. You presented one of the few.

But let's say, the Samurai class, instead of Iajutsu giving me +2d6 damage on my first attack of the battle, against a challenged foe within 10 feet of me, gave me +1d6 any time I attacked in the same turn as drawing my weapon.

Does the default version have bigger numbers? Yes. Would the new version be undoubtedly better for its flexibility? Also yes. Would I ever use either version? Not until I get the fear aura, because -4 AC hurts.

I feel like this situation is analogous. Sure, the immunity/constant aura are bigger better numbers, but they are so situational, that the additional flexibility of permanent Shake it Off overcomes all downsides.

As for Regular Smite vs your Smite, I'd totally agree with you, if you weren't in a party full of martial characters who will use your Weal's Champion to unleash a world of hurt on the enemy.

Ah, I suppose I should be a little more vocal than.

Tess will be ranged DPS and buff/utility caster. Outside of combat she will help with knowledges, scouting, and stealthiness.

@ GM Demonmoose

Should my character, Čemifobbar, get in, what group would be most likely for him to be in?

From your last listed revision, I thought he might be a candidate for Green. As party "muscle". And he is kitted up with a composite longbow, which helps a bit for the archery bit. And he could also serve as a party face sort of thing, with his high diplomacy rating (in spite being a dhampir).

I thought Blue and Orange might be slightly problematic. With a dhampir (of any class) rubbing shoulders with a paladin, etcetera.

Thanks!

Ah I seemed to have missed something even greater.. I lost My DR bypassing AC Increasing Smite, Immunities AND my Divine Bond.. In that light are you still sure the focus of which it changes to the teamwork feats constantly comparable?

Your example is quite a good one but it would fall off as soon as the Dice jumped the next 2 levels while the second ability stayed the same.. if you want to keep it similar to the Paladin change. They actually both have similar flexibility in that You can gain Iaijutsu anytime you havent drawn your blade on a challenged target.. which means you use a different weapon, which historically some samurai did indeed do unless the opponent as worthy.

For the Smite its never as comparable to the regular one especially at 11th due to the fact the party gains none of the abilities of the regular smite save for half your Cha and 3 damage, UNLESS you are striking multiple evil opponents and even then it has a Duration of about.. 5 rounds or so.

For prospective applicants, You just need to appeal to what the group needs.

@Čemifobbar : Your issue was less that we have paladins but that it is really hard to reliably heal you without mistakenly killing you.

@ Tessara Yandalëra : You might have trouble because I THINK every group basically has.. a Wizard/Full Arcane Caster though your going Arcane Arher.. so they see another caster rather than a martial ranged with some magic.

@Cemifobbar, both Green and Red could use more muscle.

I have made Green and Red have 7 total slots each, so if everyone is currently continuing except my characters, Green needs 3 more and Red needs 2 more characters.

Not quite on the Iajutsu strike. " but before he has attacked the target of his challenge,"

The DR bypassing, I would care about, if you were the party's prime martial. You are intending to go Skald. You will not be the party's prime martial.

As for your arguments about scaling, both for my imaginary Iajutsu and your actual case, the fact that you're multiclassing away from the class after snagging the potent ability you wanted kind of negates that. In my opinion, you must argue level by level, not the class as a whole, because, people can multiclass! You have no guarantee that they were going to continue the class.

So, Level 1, the Smite Change. It undoubtedly makes you better at buffing your party, while undoubtedly making you a worse personal fighter. I totally agree. You built to be a team buffer, so I don't know why you'd think the new version is worse. I can certainly think of a situation where it'd be worse, aka, you're the team's frontline melee damage dealer, but if you are, why did you take this archetype?

Level 3, you sacrifice Two immunities and a fear aura. You also sacrifice an ability you won't get for two more levels.. So you did the smart thing, and didn't take those two additional levels to not get that ability. You gain considerable flexible bonuses to your party forever, that scale with your feats rather than with your Paladin levels (yet another bonus over Cavalier. :P).

We disagree on the exact strength of those flexible bonuses, thus the crux of our issue.

But I'll just take my buffs and be grateful, shall I? :P

Well that's why I'm here to clean that up :) Tessara won't be a beacon of spell knowledge, she will have primarily buffing spells with a few utility ones mixed in. Beyond that she's devoted to being DPS as well as having some battlefield control tricks up her sleeve.

Hrm ah you assume That I am not a Primary Martial.. I am I just understand a bit of versatility and synergy isnt bad I plan on taking more levels of Paladin as well so those things will very much become a reality. I'm including the possibility of Multiclassing due to the facet just 1 level of Regular Pally gives the ability to do all that which smite does. Now the reason I took this archetype is that the character is a General-type. It made sense and fit the story I kinda have going for him. Being able to buff people does not make suddenly not a damage dealer. Thats what Power attack is for.

I plan on going about half and half, just a weighted half on one side.

So yes.. take your Buffs and LIKE IT!

Are you sure it's a good idea to power attack with +6 to hit? :P

Look at the Gameplay Thread.. you tell me :P. In general there are very few times where you DONT power attack, especially when it comes to constructs and other creatures, I take a -1 for +3 +5 and +6 are not that much of a difference if you utilize buffs and combat tactics.

Hah, fair enough.

With all the constructs, Muga's probably gonna have a tough time deciding between +1 Adaptive Bow, or Construct Bane on his sword. I've got fear to cover my ass against normal foes, but machines just don't feel fear properly. :(

I assume your going Cornugan Smash?

Both of those choices will also depend on IF you can get loot at the appropriate time.. heck we went through this book with about.. 1000gp worth of stuff but most of the time it was what we started with/found.

So keep your current and future choices in mind with decisions like that. Might have been different for the other groups but our group pretty much stayed the course anytime something needed to be done.

Dazzling Display, actually. Dazzling Display + Terrifying Iajutsu means, pretty much anyone who fails vs the Iajutsu save, will be frightened by round 2.

I'm not even picking up Power Attack till Level 7.

You realize that Dazzling Display doesnt stack with that correct? Unless I assume your using another feat to do so?