I really don't like the idea of giving away the Tome of Drav. In my opinion it needs to be destroyed, or given to the church to research how to destroy demons.
I would have said something in game but yesterday and today are super busy for me. :(
Did we at least take note of the five pages with all the annotations, and copy down the notes before giving it away, in case this is forshadowing of creatures we'll soon encounter?
Likewise, I was not paying attention. Qui, as a LG, would have been hesitant to let books on demonology get into questionable hands.
Ok, we can retro it to include one of the other books instead of the Tome say
Thryn’s Book of Medicines(50 gp)
Leaving you:
Zovar’s Catalogue of Diseases and Pestilences(10 gp)
Mystical Diagnostics(200 gp)
Introversions of Toxins(100 gp)
Orminiod’s Essays on Medicine(100 gp)
Kariloodian’s Second Treatise on Anatomy(100 gp)
Modr’s Incomprehensiblium(5 gp)
Yraric’s Surgical Guidelines(50 gp)
Kormon’s Catalogue of Internal Organs(25 gp)
Redrallion’s Investigations Into Natural Philosophy(100 gp)
690 gp worth of books for trade-in later
That sounds fine with me.
Sounds good.
We can use the demon's true names to bind them right?
I think the answer is yes, but we are a LG party. I do not think that using demons for any purpose would be considered "good". Especially binding, i.e. slavery.
Uhh. I don't let a metaphysical tag determine my character's actions, it reflects my character's actions and shouldn't be static.
I'm not lawful good, and I'd much rather have demons tightly under my control, using their powers to fight other evil than having them run around sowing chaos. Don't see how that's evil at all.
Plus there are plenty of societies where slavery is lawful. You could also argue that it's not evil depending on the type of slavery being practiced (clearly some (most?) forms are).
Your choice, although I, as a LG servant of Sarenrae, would oppose any use of a demon for anything other than destroying the demon.
Not sure how our Paladin would feel, although the Paladin's Code of Conduct, while not specifically forbidding working with evil, does severely limit it and strongly advises against it.
Jokbur is dedicated to destroying undead. As long as a summoned demon would munch undead, he would be happy.
But he is little l big G for lG.
I also admitting to being of the old school. Poison use was forbidden even to fight evil for some classes (monks). Acts of themselves had an alignment regardless of intentions. Raising demons was considered a CE act.
Alignment has been a controversial topic since it was introduced. To quote a song "I don't want to gain the world and lose my soul" but many of my heroes would "Save the whole world and lose their soul".
In the end, it's up to the GM whether binding demons is an evil act, if it is I can't do it without losing my spells as a good cleric.
It'll be many levels before I even have the juice to call one, much less bind it anyway.
Well, here are the classes who can cast Planer Binding:
School conjuration (calling) [see text]; Level sorcerer/wizard 6, summoner 5; Domain daemon 6, demon (chaos, evil) 6, devil (evil, law) 6, inevitable 6, protean 6
(lesser and greater are just Sorc/Wiz and Summoner)
Does not appear that you would even be able to use the basic spell. The domains are CE, NE, LE, CN and LN. Not sure which other spells would be similar and allow the use of the name.
Clerics get the Planar Ally line.
So I couldn't personally call a demon no. But Edmund could. Basically knowing the name gives the outsider a penalty on the save. He could potentially also take true name arcane discovery later. He's also NG, and as an arcane caster wouldn't lose his spellcasting ability for using a spell with the evil descriptor.
It just seems like such a waste to destroy something we could use as a tool. We definitely shouldn't give it away though. Someone else might not be trustworthy.
You can also use a demon's name to increase your success on Banishment for those characters who would not be comfortable with binding a demon.
I agree 100% with not letting it fall into the wrong hands.
As far as Planar Ally goes, I would be rather surprised if the Dawnflower would grant you the services of a demon, I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that she does not use demons in her daily activities very often other than for target practice.
The problem, even with Edmund, is that once he has summoned the demon, and even if he has the true name, then he must bargain with the demon and I do not think that bargaining with a threat that the party paladin will not smite the demon is going to suffice. In return for their services, some demons just want wealth and magic, but the vast majority want sacrifices of intelligent beings, corruption of innocents and virgins, poison, murder, and other less than good things.
If GM Blood allows it, then Qui will frown on it and argue against it. Whether he will do more, I do not know. However, the risks inherent in summoning demons seems to me to be risks that no good character would usually partake in. If you have the ability to summon powerful creatures, why not summon a Deva or an Angel to fight for us without the risk of the outsider suddenly turning tail and rampaging through the countryside.
However, back to the beginning. If we have the true name and run into the demon, then it is possible that we could use the name to force the demon to return to the Abyss. I do not know exactly how this would work, but it is definitely a tool that we should guard carefully.
Edmund will never be binding demons, devils, or even a grumpy goblin. His interest in the book is limited to its previous owner's interest. Somebody had the book and studied five demons. Perhaps that person summoned them and left them to wander the lower levels.
As a GM I would take a big picture look at it and decide on punishment due to alignment/religion. Encountering a demon so you learn its true name, control it and banish it would be judged differently than controlling it and using it as your pet. Of course I may judge it different if you used it in a fight you could not win with out it. I usually have no hard and fast rule.
But usually everyone knows if they crossed a line or not!
As a paladin, I am against slavery of any kind, so binding a demon into service is right out, and I'd have to try to stop it from happening.
Binding a demon to imprison it would be completely acceptable though. As long as it was just bound and told something like "sit here and do nothing", I'd be fine with it.
In general though, I'd really like it if we didn't mess around with diabolism. Demons are for smiting, and that's about it.
So after resting up are you headed back to the Mouth or going to head out into the scary wilderness looking for the spider den?
Spiders.
Spiders - we will help the druid.
The wilderness is scary???
But spiders taste sooooo good. Almost as good as flies.
As a note, I will be at CarnageCon this weekend, so my posting is likely to be light.
that should be a d5 roll
Guess it's meant to be.
Bug zapper on!
When level 5 we can hit the nest.
My goal is to avoid getting hit more than once.
As an FYI - I will be on vacation for the next week. I should have internet access most days, but will be unlikely to post other than in the early morning and late evening. Occasional posting by phone is possible, but it will be minimal.
Lots of holiday stuff coming up for me in the next two weeks. My posting time will be pretty diminished. I'll get a post in when I can, but please don't hold the game up for me.
Everyone will have holiday stuff going on. I expect most games to slow down.
Yeah I am sure it will be a crawl until the new year, but we can see what we can do.
At the moment you have cleared the construct and are staring at the water and differently colored stone
With Christmas and the holidays coming up, I will be putting the game on hold until Jan 6th. At that point we will pick up here. I'll have the map of what has been explored on this level ready then.
Have a great holiday break!
I know we are still on hiatus. Packers beat the Bears to go to the playoffs. I guess that tie wasn't so bad :-)
I would not say that the Packers beat the Bears. The Bears gift wrapped that one. The freak fumble touchdown, losing last week to Philadelphia, losing to Minnesota a few weeks ago, losing to Detroit the second time, losing to Washington. The Bears should have been like 12-4.
I just hope that they get rid of Cutler and draft a decent QB next year. McCown is good for another year while a rookie apprentices. That, and they REALLY need a top notch middle linebacker to replace Urlacher.
GO PACK GO
it was painful to go without a good quarterback for half the season, I don't know how you bears fans do it every game every year. :)
Yeh, right now the Bears probably have the best set of receivers in the game, we just need a QB to get the ball to them.
I agree, those guys are awesome. The spin catch that Marshall caught was amazing, no way to defend that one. And Jeffries is really good too (Bennett looks like he might turn into something special as well). And if the Bears can keep that line healthy and together Forte will continue to chew up the yards.
The catch that Jeffrey's had 2 or 3 weeks ago at the end of the first half leaning out the back corner of the end zone was the amazing one.
Go sports team! You beat that other sports team! Yay!
Yeah, I have to agree with you Jonas. Lol.
Pathfinder is just like football.
You have 5 ogres up front as the offensive line. A troll as the tight end. The fullback is an orc. The receivers are bugbears . The running back a hobgoblin, or a goblin on third down. And the quarterback is a gnoll, although usually uglier and less intelligent (otherwise they would not be playing a sport with a 100% chance of brain injury.)
Who gets to cut their heads off? :P
I just hope that they get rid of Cutler and draft a decent QB next year.
Sorry, you are stuck with him at least three more years
As long as we can get the good Cutler and avoid the "throw the ball to the wrong team on occasion" Cutler, then all will be fine. Really, he did not lose many games this year. His numbers were pretty good, the defense sucked big time this year. Hopefully we can get a real linebacker and some improved defensive backs.
Thanks to a good long break from work and the real world, I am ready to go again. Hope everyone else is ready too!