Building a Dragon Rider Need Advice! (vis a vis Third Party Dragonrider class)


Advice


Alright so I recently came across this class found here, linky and I was wondering how the heck would I build something like this?

I have two thoughts on this:
First make it some kind of flying archer thing where you emphasize DEX and the ability to ride
your dragon around and do fly bys while hailing arrows down into your enemies.

Or Second make it some kind of Caviler tanky thing where you wield and Lance and do ride by attacks.

Any advice would be appreciated: Race, Dragon, Feats, est.


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Epic Meepo has made a Dragon Rider archetype for the Cavalier, maybe that might help you. Here's the link. (Just click on Cavalier Archetypes and scroll down to the 2nd archetype)

I have seen, and bought, the Dragonrider class booklet... and I've been having mixed feeling about it, mainly due to the dragon steed.
- The steed has been ruled that it can carry riders of the same size as itself, as opposed to riders at least one size smaller than itself. However, the steed barely has enough strength and a suffisant carrying capacity to make a worthy steed.

- Due to that limitation, some dragon steeds can only be ridden by level 8.

- The steed's breath weapon is whimpy, as 9 times a die for a limited number per day isn't a viable option.

- Some of the fly speeds seem off, as some dragons fly slower than they can walk and some fly barely faster.


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Well, the dragonrider is a very interesting class. First of all, don't listen to the comments on the class saying that it's overpowered. It's really, really not, if anything, the class is overly constrained by the focus mechanic. You have an awesome pet, but it really gets taken out of your own class features.

Race: Humans have a downright fantastic favored class bonus. (I know, a shocking surprise. -_-) +10 to the dragon's CMB over the course of the class is pretty incredible, and makes your dragon a fantastic grappler. And of course, humans are generally good at doing anything.

Dragon: The big class feature. The most notable thing you want to consider when choosing the dragon is the focus feature, which is an action you have to use every round to control your pet... it's a pretty significant inhibitor. Level is also a huge factor here... if you're starting at 1 and never going past 6, gold dragon means you'll almost never get to take a standard action, while if you're starting at 16 it just jips you out of arcane strike, basically. Three types of progression are given with the focus improving at 8 and 16, swift -> free -> free for the weakest colors, move -> swift -> free for middle of the road dragons, and standard -> move -> swift for the strongest dragons.

I'm not a huge fan of the swift -> free -> free dragons, bad base stats and only a +4 strength boost at level 8 makes them pretty weak. Looking at the other progressions, I'd recommend either the bronze dragon or the gold dragon for the best overall stats for their progressions. Blue and red dragons are the slightly weaker chromatic counterparts.

The one big drawback of the steed is never getting a way to move and full attack... the lack of pounce, along with never getting wing or tail attacks stinks. I recommend Helm of the Mammoth Lord, if possible, to get another natural attack for your mount. And, as pointed out by JiCi, the breath weapon is rubbish.

You: You have full BAB, good saves, and a solid hit dice, but where the rider himself really falls short is the class features. Aside from bonus feats, 4th level spellcasting, and eventual blindsense, (of only 15 feet...) your abilities are mediocre. I don't recommend mounted archery, because unlike successful archery classes like ranger and inquisitor, you lack in ways to add to damage besides arcane strike, and the end result will be plenty of hits, but mediocre damage. Your best option is probably to go with a mounted lance charge build, moving towards spirited change and mounted skirmisher as quickly as possible. If tempted to take arcane strike, beware the potential conflict between that and your focus. On the other hand, your bonus feat list contains leadership. If your GM allows it, take it.

Spells: You have an excellent list of spells, but a low amount of spells both known and per day. Based on the level at which you get them, don't even bother with spells that allow saving throws, and focus on buffs. Recommended spells include: Mage Armor, Enlarge Person, Mirror Image, Haste, Dimension Door, Telekinetic Charge. The last two offer solid ways for your steed to get a full attack. On a side note, it's really depressing this class falls one spell level short of being able to use animal growth on their dragon steed... it would have been an amazing buff, but I digress.

Finally, I feel obliged to point out that the summoner is in general a more powerful class capable of doing this concept. The eidolon is comparable to the dragon steed, capable of emulating a dragon's appearance, but is much more flexible, isn't limited to 3 natural attacks, and most of all gets pounce. The rider isn't as good of a combatant, but he's an excellent support caster instead.


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Thanks Stark thats really helpful. And once I have a concept build for this class I will definitely have to look into the Summoner version of this!

And Jici, yeah those shortcoming are very problematic and the more I look at this class the more underwhelming it appears. The shortcomings of the dragon is kind of lack luster. However, at levels 1-3 the Dragon is very powerful compared to a lot of level PCs of compared levels (Starts with 2 HD of D12 and it can fly, if poorly). Maybe something could be done to balance out this power swing so that the Dragon progresses more smoothly and ramps up in power better.


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BiosTheo wrote:
And Jici, yeah those shortcoming are very problematic and the more I look at this class the more underwhelming it appears. The shortcomings of the dragon is kind of lack luster. However, at levels 1-3 the Dragon is very powerful compared to a lot of level PCs of compared levels (Starts with 2 HD of D12 and it can fly, if poorly). Maybe something could be done to balance out this power swing so that the Dragon progresses more smoothly and ramps up in power better.

Well, Meepo had the right idea:

- A large, or medium, non-descript dragon steed that never get larger, and getting a suitable steed at level 5 is ok, similar to a paladin's mount.
- A scalable set of abilities, including a breath weapon

You wanna make a character based on Hiccup and Toothless? That archetype is for you ^_^

The main problem is that nobody can get a balanced steed using the classic 10 dragons. Some are too small, too powerful or too weak, not to mention that they don't age the same way in terms of power. How can someone balance that out?

You could give a Large dragon as a steed, but a White or Brass steed will be stronger than Red or Gold, when we usually think about the opposite.

It's true that the Dragonrider's steed makes a powerful ally at levels 1 to 3... but those levels can pass be REALLY fast, and some DMs even start games above that threshold, meaning that your steed becomes kinda useless from the get-go.

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