Ok, I recently ran an adventure where the players encountered several ghouls (RotRL #2) and through their use of the spell "Hide from Undead" I allowed the PCs to go past several ghouls undetected without saving throws.
This was a complete mistake on my part because I figured ghouls were unintelligent undead.
So going back and seeing my mistake, I'm now wondering, "what makes ghouls intelligent?"
Vampires are usually solitary, or organize their efforts to attack prey. Also, vampires are normally portrayed as very intelligent beings.
So, what's the deal with ghouls? They're listed as having an intelligence score, but what would roleplaying ghouls be like? They supposedly have Int scores of 13, but I can't imagine what a ghoul thinks about besides eating people.
Any ideas?
Basketry and fletching are my votes...
So, what's the deal with ghouls? They're listed as having an intelligence score, but what would roleplaying ghouls be like? They supposedly have Int scores of 13, but I can't imagine what a ghoul thinks about besides eating people.
Any ideas?
Read H. P. Lovecraft's story "Pickman's Model", for starters. Those ghouls have tons of personality. :-)
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They may only really think about eating people, but they may make semi-intricate plans on how to catch/trap/track said people. Hiding in the shadows and grab the last person in the marching order with a paralyzing attack, drag him/her off and bound him/her in ropes, making sure to leave them able to talk when the paralysis wears off. Then they wait in hiding while the PC shouts for their comrades to come and help. When they finally do, the ghouls jump the whole party.
It's all about how you go about it.
I guess I'm having trouble seeing ghouls as having any need to lurk around in groups, especially in locations where they're not going to find enough flesh to eat.
That was the thing about vampires, they make sense because they blend in with society.
They may only really think about eating people, but they may make semi-intricate plans on how to catch/trap/track said people. Hiding in the shadows and grab the last person in the marching order with a paralyzing attack, drag him/her off and bound him/her in ropes, making sure to leave them able to talk when the paralysis wears off. Then they wait in hiding while the PC shouts for their comrades to come and help. When they finally do, the ghouls jump the whole party.
It's all about how you go about it.
Wow. You could at least be polite when you criticize someone. Sheesh.
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I guess the difference lies in fighting zombies and fighting ghouls. A zombie will shamble up to the party and try to eat them. A ghoul will wait for someone to lower their guard and then strike, hoping to paralyze them so they can drag off their prize. They're not terribly smart, but they're not dumb either.
I have seen ghouls in so many different systems I do not remember how they are defined in D&D. I would go back to the Monster Manual for some inspiration.
A 13 INT? That is above your average person, right? So they are quite cunning.
I would look at cannibals in our own history for some motivations as well. In contemporary thought, eating human flesh is viewed as evil. However, it has not always been. Are there rituals associated with flesh eating?
What about the economics of eating humans? One needs a supply of prey and considering your prey is only slightly less intelligent than you, you need a means of hiding yourself. Like any other predator, the size of your group is limited by the supply of prey. Is there a hierarchy? Who gets first pick of human flesh? How does one become the alpha? Barring that, how does one appease the alpha?
Despite being intelligent, civilization is unlikely as it is not practical to set up a human farm outside of a human town so that some of you can specialize. Ghouls would most likely have to be nomadic, staying for a while until their presence became obvious and made hunting difficult and/or discovery possible. Then they would have to move on to another suitable location.
Anything that aided in the capture of prey would be priced. Anything that did not aid in the capture of prey would probably be discarded.
Following CourtFool's train of thought, something to consider is the average "unlife span" of a ghoul. Do these things actually exist long enough to become nomads, or is there a strong enough anti-undead presence in the campaign to regularly eradicate any given ghoul pack before it's been around terribly long (which I'd define in this situation as maybe a few months or years)? The fact you're citing RotRL indicates you're using Golarion/Varisia, in which case I would think any random ghoul pack has a fairly good chance of surviving for quite some time, even indefinitely.
Typically, D&D seems to present ghouls as living in warrens, whether they be sewers or catacombs or caverns. They are pack hunters, stalking prey and attacking from ambush in numbers. Perhaps they eat their prey on the spot, perhaps they drag them back whence the ghouls came. They are intelligent enough to adapt that behavior as the situation allows.
I love using ghouls. I have a long-time player who gets really freaked out by them, so I can always count on having at least one frightened yet enthusiastic member of the group when there's going to be a ghoul encounter. I typically have the ghouls speak, taunts and expressions like "Fresh meat!" I basically make a choking/rasping sound at the top of my throat and speak through it, though I can't do it long without loosing my voice. It's something which has made ghouls come alive (pun intended) in my games for my players, so maybe it will help you as well.
Just because something has a predisposed, alien, one-track mind doesn't mean it can't be intelligent.
More of an adventure idea, but... What if a freshly risen ghoul uses fear and the loyalty of his family to stay hidden? "Grandpa Zack dosn't leave the basement for... health reasons." Most people would take this at face value, particularly if the family plays it off as an eccentric old relative. Over time, as he drags the family deeper and deeper into complicity with his cannibalistic habits, he corrupts them to the point where they, too, rise as ghouls when they die. Over generations, that could lead to the single scion of a once noble family hiding hundreds of years of ghouls in basement warrens. Ruled by his underground masters, he makes the mistake of luring a plot hook (PC's family, friend, etc.) into the clutches of his elders. Upon his capture and execution as a serial killer, the ghouls no longer have a link to the outside world and have to hunt for themselves (or, they grieve for the ignoble death of their offspring and seek revenge on the populace.), leading to a huge increase in the numbers of unexplainable disappearances.
Ghouls are undead (and in my book, undead means immortal.). They are patient. They can convince the children that they mean no harm and wait until those who know better are dead, from natural causes or otherwise. And then... "I'm so lonely, child. How would you like to bring me a friend?"
I ran a 1st level dungeon where the PCs encountered a ghoul and tried talking. Int 13, Wis 12?, Cha 15. Pretty cunning and charming, for a corpse. I ended up calling him Vandermeer, and kind of Hannibal Lector-ized the dead dude. A gormet cannibal.
I ran a 1st level dungeon where the PCs encountered a ghoul and tried talking. Int 13, Wis 12?, Cha 15. Pretty cunning and charming, for a corpse. I ended up calling him Vandermeer, and kind of Hannibal Lector-ized the dead dude. A gormet cannibal.
:) Ghouls are just all-around unpleasant critters, especially factoring in the "back when" elements of it. Lovecraftian elements tie in a great deal of liesure time as well, so ghouls presumably spend a great deal of time burrowing warrens out beneath cemetary or other burial grounds. In areas where cremation (by oven or pyre) is the custom, ghouls are probably quite scarce. In some cultures I can see mummification in game terms being popular when affordable, as mummies can pretty readily whup up on ghouls.
An 'adult' ghoul would not need more than a few pounds' of carrion a day to sustain itself, say a maximum of 5 pounds per day.
By the by, here, here and here are some ... interesting ... web sites to poke around in for information.
Be advised that the third link is NSFW - just on topic matter alone, although one should probably play conservative and not look at any of these at work or any other public forum.
Unfortunately, none of these was satisfactory in providing a quantifiable answer, so I would *estimate* perhaps a third of body weight is edible to a ghoul. Presuming a given SPFR weighed 150 pounds, at a consumption rate of say 5 pounds per day, a person would provide 10 ghoul-days' food. Food consumption would presumably scale like trail rations for the living, thus Small ghouls (ghoul gnomes and halflings) would get 4 times as much potential sustenance from the same SPFR as a Medium ghoul. Thus a single Medium SPFR weighing 150 pounds would not last until just about the typical time that the soft tissues begin to liquefy (4 weeks). Depending on a LOT of variables of course, which probably do not need to be gone into great lengths any more than I already have.
Ghouls have solidly well above average mental ability scores in game terms - they are smarter, more patient, stronger willed and more determined that Joe and Jane Average, and in many cases moreso than quite a few adventurers. Based on advancement of HD, it is logical enough that a neophyte ghoul eventually becomes a ghast of respectable prowess, with the jump at 4 HD being quite considerable (transitioning from ghoul to ghast), albiet at the cost of garnering the infamous stench associated with ghasts. How the 2nd level spell creates a stench yet retains the name ghoul touch is rather mystifying. Easily explained, as 'ghast' seems to be a misnomer if the naming convention of the spell is accurate...
Sorry about the rambling - ghouls are so much fun though, and SmiloDan's "Hannibal Lecter ghoul" story was inspiring!
Regarding the amount of flesh a ghoul consumes. As undead, I wouldn't think they really need to eat at all. I would tend to play it as an ever-present, ever-increasing hunger which compells the ghoul to seek out flesh. I wouldn't have them suffer any adverse effects for not getting it, however (which I believe runs counter to the Libris Mortis, but the whole "undead metabolism" section of that book really didn't do anything for me).
Ghouls are in some ways very similar to vampires. They are like the wolf pack version of the hunting undead in many regards, though individually weaker than the vampire and ultimately after the meat rather than the blood. An interesting alliance of villains might be a vampire or three and their ghoul minions. They work together to take down prey, with the vampires at the top of the pecking order. They would drain the blood first, then leave the still-warm corpse to the ghouls for consumption. A particularly unscrupulous party might pick up on the resentment of the ghouls for the vampires, as the ghouls could wish to eat the victims while they were still alive; a macabre alliance could be possible in such an adventure.
Oh, fun, fun! I need to come up with an undead adventure for my campaign now....
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In libris mortis, I do believe that undead creatures that consumed some sort of substance did not need it, but every so often would take wisdom damage if they did not have it, turning a usually intelligent undead critter into a ravenous hunger-driven monster. When satiated, he might look to strike up a conversation with his captured-but-not-yet-killed victim. Of course, that's if they bother to capture someone while they're not hungry. Still, I think it would be interesting.
MM indicates that ghouls hunger for carrion, hunting in battlefields, graveyards and other places rich with humanoid carrion.
Perhaps they do not need to eat - as their creature type indicates - but no need doesn't seem to counter that hunger. And hunger is a pretty powerful motivator. ^_^ Many of the undead, corporeal and incorporeal alike, have a basic 'instictive' motivator attached to them, often the driving force behind becoming what they are. Only mummies and liches, if memory serve, are exempt along with the animated dead. But then, for me, when undead are created on desecrated ground gaining those benefits, they also gain an Evil alignment and accompanying behavior. Depending on the situation, it can get ugly in a hurry, especially with zombified Large or Huge creatures... Poor paladin's mount ... tsk tsk...
I look forward to hearing about that campaign, I'm sure the crit and sneak-attack happy players will hate you with a passion. :)
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Oh, fun, fun! I need to come up with an undead adventure for my campaign now....
In my homebrew that I ran, the party started out on a former island paradise that had been, quite some years ago, overran by undead. There was but a single bastion left on the island, a town built around a hallowed place that the undead would not come near (even the intelligent ones). It was quite a bit of fun, although it was disheartening for one player when his Orc Barbarian got 1-hit by a ghast. He was a little worn down by the ghouls in the previous room of the crypt (a room full of square pillars that the ghouls used to ambush the PC's), and the Ghast scored a critical on him if memory serves. The party also had a half-vampire spellblade. It's funny, I think they all ran when the orc went down, thinking that it was too powerful for them since it so easily took down the strongest member of their party. Good times.
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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I love ghouls. Something about those little crazy cannibals always makes me smile. Ghouls can be a blast for a DM. Their high intelligence encourages a personality for the creatures, making the possibility of a memorable encounter, or recurring villain, highly probable. In fact, a cunning enough ghoul could conceiveably conceal his true nature for quite some time if need be.
Back in the day (2nd Edition), a ghoul was the head of the Thieves' Guild in my home brew. He used perfume to cover his stench, fed on corpses he paid thugs to bring him for "alchemical experiments", and managed to be a real PITA for the PCs on more than one occasion. The PCs' reaction once they discovered his true nature was a priceless gaming moment!
If they do not need to feed, then there is no limit to how you can play them. What about a ghoul who wants to be good but can not resist the call. Or is that too Louis from Interview With a Vampire?
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They supposedly have Int scores of 13, but I can't imagine what a ghoul thinks about besides eating people.
Any ideas?
Whether it would be cognizant thought or just random flashes, I'd imagine a ghoul would spend a lot of time hating ... hating it's existence, being driven mad by barely-remembered desires and flashes of memory of fleshly existance ... that sort of stuff. I'd consider it a lot of emotion, madness and desires.
I don't know, I see ghouls as "liberated" undead. As a living being, they feasted on human flesh in secrecy and fearful pleasure. Now that they no longer have to put up a facade of humanity, they are free to indulge in their blasphemous desires. The way I see it, ghouldom could go two ways; the Pickman way, where they have all eternity to indulge their appetites and infinite time to pursue other pursuits, or as a curse, where no matter how much they eat they still hunger for more. The latter would produce feral, cunning creatures that take as many people as they can, possibly haunting the outskirts of civilization in cannibalistic wolf-packs. The former would be more suited to BBEGs, or antagonists (as opposed to mere threats) to the PCs.
Hrm - ok, so "RAW" ghouls (being undead) do not need to eat, they crave it. A RL analogy would be the typical adult person only needs X calories of nutritionally-balanced chow per day. But they crave the nummy junk food and heart attacks on a plate. How often would one induldge in a craving when there is no side effect to doing so? Therein lies the rub.
I can see it now, with portly ghouls that indulge regularly (especially fat or obese 8 HD advanced ghouls with class levels and ranks in Profession (butcher) or (cook)) versus the well-educated "Lecter" ghoul advanced to the same HD, but with radically different traits and mannerisms, versus the angst-ridden Goth ghoul that does the meat-eating version of drama queen vampires thing. A ghoul pack that does the clown act, with the ring leader having enough illusion magic available to mask the stench of the 4+ HD members. Ghouls that had been feebleminded before becoming a ghoul become glorified zombies... ah the possibilities.
Give ghouls the same range of intelligence as humans and have them act accordingly.
Stupid or desperate ghouls are going to be picking through cemeteries, joining packs (gangs by any other name) and generally doing silly things to draw attention to themselves. Like dumb vampires.
Smart ghouls? Like vampires but a step up, and yes, I mean up. Ghouls only need to eat human flesh, not drink blood, and there's a lot more flesh on a human than blood. Even with absurdly lavish meals, a human corpse will last a ghoul a couple weeks.
Given a nice cellar larder and a few ranks in Disguise, a ghoul can lead a reasonably normal unlife, especially if they have some reclusive profession where they don't need to deal with the neighbors much. As for food, there are all sorts of people who won't be missed. And you don't even have to get them yourself. Hire a few graverobbers to bring you the weekly groceries, tell them you're a sage studying anatomy, and let them think you're a necromancer doing unholy experiments in the basement, rather than just a ghoul ordering take-out.
Hell, if you're lucky, you'll live in a city that has some version of Mrs. Lovett's Pie Shop operating in it and you can go to the local pub and chow down on long pork to your dead heart's content with no worries beyond wondering when your favorite restaurant is going to get shut down by busybody paladins.
Ghouls are very cunning and capable of speech. Given time and a little will, they could even blend in with society (the afterdark crowd, preferably). They are capable of most things a human is capable of, only they are drawn by a hunger for flesh that rivals a vampires thirst for blood.
If they know the prey is there, but can't find it (as per invisibility), and know that an ambush is likely too late, you could have them start combing the area looking for the PCs (while taunting them, of course).
Just think of them as regular people. What Would You Do? After you figure that out, as long as "food" fits somewhere, you're alright.
I can see it now, with portly ghouls that indulge regularly (especially fat or obese 8 HD advanced ghouls with class levels and ranks in Profession (butcher) or (cook)) ....
I like that idea. Check out the famine spirit (I think that's the name) from the Fiend Folio (or is it the MM2?).
I think it has something to do with the environment the PCs would find the ghoul(s) in, and what the ghoul was like before transforming to undead. If it's an encounter in some out-of-the-way cemetery or other location away from civilization, the ghoul might have become more feral or schizophrenic, not having anyone to interact with has probably reduced its social skills. If it was a charismatic person in life, it might be some exaggerated version of it's living self. It might've decorated it's lair with pieces of it's victims, but in a very decorative, complex way. It's really all about how you're feeling about the creature; feral cannibal or cosmopolitan with a complex pallet of taste... I really like the Hannibal Lecter type one mentioned above!
I can see it now, with portly ghouls that indulge regularly (especially fat or obese 8 HD advanced ghouls with class levels and ranks in Profession (butcher) or (cook)) ....I like that idea. Check out the famine spirit (I think that's the name) from the Fiend Folio (or is it the MM2?).
Was that the Gluttony one or something else? I dont have my MM2 with me.
...rather than just a ghoul ordering take-out.
Oh, I like that.
"Would you like any fried maggots with that?"
When you get right down to it, there are a lot of reasons for ghouls to be intelligent, and I'm behind all of them (all of which are listed above by other posters):
1: Dangerous prey: Predators have to be able to outfox their prey, and humans are intelligent. Even their dead are often buried in elaborate, hard to reach ways.
2: Tradition: D&D ghouls are inspired largely on Lovecraft ghouls (and even looked like them in 1st ed,) and those guys are definitely sapient (and even enjoyed a good, morbid joke at human expense.) Furthermore, the ghoul of old legend was a carnivorous (often shapeshifting) demon that haunted burial grounds and deserts, waiting to lure people to their doom and devour them.
3: But for me, the most compelling reason for ghouls to be intelligent is cannibalism. The idea of being eaten by an animal is scary, but being eaten by something that was once a man is even more unsettling. And perhaps most disturbing of all, being eaten by something that, at least on some level, still is a man. It's what makes man-eating trolls, giants, goblins, and orcs gruesome. They're people. They're monster people, but they're still people. And people eating people is creepy.
In my current swashbuckling campaign, there is a city called New Fang that is ruled by a sort of Parliament of Pirates. There is an evil denizen in the new Crater Sea that requires a bloodtoll before allowing safe passage across it, so vampires are kind of in charge of shipping and trade and exploration, even if they just stay in their night club/temple/trading houses and party all the time. Gnoll pirate-priestesses are also a dominant force (most other traditionally evil races were exterminated in the cataclysm that made the Crater Sea). And in the center of town is a fenced-in forested meadow. It's the cemetary. Here there be ghouls. It's customary to just heave the corpses of the dead over the wrought iron fence and let the denizens of the cemetary devour it. It's also rumored to hold cannibalistic were-hyenas and maybe even a pack of worgs or murder of kenku. And pirates being pirates, there's a ready supply of food for the denizens of that cemetary.
More of an adventure idea, but... What if a freshly risen ghoul uses fear and the loyalty of his family to stay hidden? "Grandpa Zack dosn't leave the basement for... health reasons." Most people would take this at face value, particularly if the family plays it off as an eccentric old relative. Over time, as he drags the family deeper and deeper into complicity with his cannibalistic habits, he corrupts them to the point where they, too, rise as ghouls when they die. Over generations, that could lead to the single scion of a once noble family hiding hundreds of years of ghouls in basement warrens. Ruled by his underground masters, he makes the mistake of luring a plot hook (PC's family, friend, etc.) into the clutches of his elders. Upon his capture and execution as a serial killer, the ghouls no longer have a link to the outside world and have to hunt for themselves (or, they grieve for the ignoble death of their offspring and seek revenge on the populace.), leading to a huge increase in the numbers of unexplainable disappearances.
Ghouls are undead (and in my book, undead means immortal.). They are patient. They can convince the children that they mean no harm and wait until those who know better are dead, from natural causes or otherwise. And then... "I'm so lonely, child. How would you like to bring me a friend?"
Ooh, I love the idea of a ghoul noble family. Nice and creepy. Hmm, just imagine, the Pcs get hired to 'clear out' a catacomb, only to learn that's how the ghoul clan's still-living relatives feed their undead kinsmen... "How was that sorceror, great-grandpa? Not too tough?"
Give ghouls the same range of intelligence as humans and have them act accordingly.
Smart ghouls? Like vampires but a step up, and yes, I mean up. Ghouls only need to eat human flesh, not drink blood, and there's a lot more flesh on a human than blood. Even with absurdly lavish meals, a human corpse will last a ghoul a couple weeks.
Strictly speaking, it's not like the humans have to be dead for the ghoul to eat them (I think). With some care and a few heal spells, you can keep your 'dinner guests' alive for weeks while feeding a bit at a time...
Strictly speaking, it's not like the humans have to be dead for the ghoul to eat them (I think). With some care and a few heal spells, you can keep your 'dinner guests' alive for weeks while feeding a bit at a time...Give ghouls the same range of intelligence as humans and have them act accordingly.
Smart ghouls? Like vampires but a step up, and yes, I mean up. Ghouls only need to eat human flesh, not drink blood, and there's a lot more flesh on a human than blood. Even with absurdly lavish meals, a human corpse will last a ghoul a couple weeks.
"Crave carrion" - but on the other paw, they could easily capture humans, with a bit of medical know-how [sufficient ranks in Heal] they could deliberately gangrenize the limbs of those they capture, gnawing the stumps off as they 'ripen'. Eventually those captured become deceased of course, between multiple cases of ghoul fever (and filth fever I'd imagine), shock, gangrene gone too far and madness from being slowly eaten alive. Although I'm sure "Cannibal Lacivious" will testify that those who die in this fashion - well, their trunks, heads and contents thereof - are particularly delectable.
And if the scenario demands it, I'm pretty certain sufficient levels of Ebil Cleric are appropriate to add on ... and the controlled incorporeal undead that result will certainly spice up the situation for the player characters...
High level ghoul casting regenerate on his prisoner(s). Now that is disturbing.
Anyone else having memories of old horror movies where the demented family would bring some prisoner to grandpa and then he'd lap up the blood from the prisoner's cut finger or some such. Families with ghouls sound right up that alley.
If you've got Regenerates to burn, all you need is a trusted (and probably well paid) servant to give you an arm and a leg every once in a while.
Of course, if you've got magic, stylish ghouls will simply use a Rod of Splendor. Once a week that will create whatever sort of food the guests would want.
If the Rod can create a buffet with roast peacock and swan, it can certainly create the all-you-can-eat pulled-long-pork and man-ribs smorgasbord suitable for a hundred discerning ghouls--splendidly arranged and plated as well.
Depending on how you rule it, live food is perfectly acceptable as well. A paladin in my game recently turned on a rod to bribe a green dragoness, not expecting that her favorite food would be the models for the "Boys of Elfland" pin-up calendar or that the Rod would conjure simulacrae.
At least he hoped they were simulacrae....
High level ghoul casting regenerate on his prisoner(s). Now that is disturbing.
Anyone else having memories of old horror movies where the demented family would bring some prisoner to grandpa and then he'd lap up the blood from the prisoner's cut finger or some such. Families with ghouls sound right up that alley.
"Give the hammer to Grandpa! He's a good killer!" -- Texas Chainsaw Massacre, a film that should be required viewing for anyone who wants to use either ghouls or Pathfinder-style ogres in an adventure/story.
And since we're talking ghouls -- if anyone else here owns a copy of the Book of Fiends they should remember the Paseod, a daemon of gluttony, that 'breeds' ghouls from its victims in a truly twisted fashion.
That would make a good 'patron' for a ghoul clan. Heck, in Golarion, it's probably a holy servant of Urgathoa.
"Boys of Elfland" pin-up calendar ... priceless.
For everything else, there's Splendor-rod, never leave home without one.
BUUUURRPPP!! *dainty dabbing of dragon-sized kerchief, burped-up femur bounces off of the rather nauseated paladin's helmet*
High level ghoul casting regenerate on his prisoner(s). Now that is disturbing.
Anyone else having memories of old horror movies where the demented family would bring some prisoner to grandpa and then he'd lap up the blood from the prisoner's cut finger or some such. Families with ghouls sound right up that alley.
Ah yes, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2, I believe. Man, this thread is getting downright nasty! I love it!
Some ghoulish questions of my own:
1) What do ghouls look like? And what races can become a ghoul? If all it takes is eating the flesh of sentient beings, why don't we see hordes of orcish and gnollish ghouls wandering the countryside?
And with appearance, do ghouls look like the vaguely canid things from Lovecraft (that has been shown in some game art) or do they look like their original species? Or do they start out looking human and then change slowly over time as they age? I have a weakness for the bestial ghoul, myself, but that's mainly due to my Lovecraft/CAS fannishness.
2) Has anyone ever written an 'Ecology Of' article covering ghouls, or done anything like a template/creature like the 'True Ghouls' CAS covered in his short story The Charnel God?
EDIT: 3) Has it ever been explained how ghouls become ghasts in recent editions of the game? As I recall in 1st Edition, ghouls became ghasts after they were taken to the Abyss and used as hunting dogs by demons. Does this still stand "officially"?
Thanks for any help.
Some ghoulish questions of my own:
1) What do ghouls look like? And what races can become a ghoul? If all it takes is eating the flesh of sentient beings, why don't we see hordes of orcish and gnollish ghouls wandering the countryside?
And with appearance, do ghouls look like the vaguely canid things from Lovecraft (that has been shown in some game art) or do they look like their original species? Or do they start out looking human and then change slowly over time as they age? I have a weakness for the bestial ghoul, myself, but that's mainly due to my Lovecraft/CAS fannishness.
2) Has anyone ever written an 'Ecology Of' article covering ghouls, or done anything like a template/creature like the 'True Ghouls' CAS covered in his short story The Charnel God?
EDIT: 3) Has it ever been explained how ghouls become ghasts in recent editions of the game? As I recall in 1st Edition, ghouls became ghasts after they were taken to the Abyss and used as hunting dogs by demons. Does this still stand "officially"?
Thanks for any help.
I would go more on the flavor text of the MM (or Lovecraft's canid / mouldy ones) as you see fit. Ghouls come across as decidedly unique in appearance, like the sapient creatures they spawn from. Diet I would expect to have an influence on their appearance and other perceptive qualities as it does with living creatures.
TBH I don't recall how ghasts evolved from ghouls in 1e - I pretty much presumed that they advanced as they devoured more and more "live" victims, absorbing their vitae - gaining XP as a ghoul and advancing racial HD in 3e terms. Abyssal ghouls are another matter of course. :)
I would be surprised if there was not an "Ecology of" article on ghouls - that article may date back a long, long time though!
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Kobold Press
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I just wrote the complete history of the D&D ghoul, true ghoul, kingdom, etc, and the boards ATE MY POST.
Deeply irritated by the rapid way my account times out (and amused by the irony of the ghouls being eaten), let me summarize it for you quickly:
I wrote the "Ecology of the Ghoul" article for Dragon #252, which you can probably pick up here at Paizo.
I also invented the true ghoul in "Kingdom of the Ghouls" (Dungeon #70), which is out of print. Check eBay. That's also where Doresain, king of the ghouls, is first fleshed out with a name, appearance, kingdom and so forth (his 1E appearance was just as a nameless feudal servant of Orcus). Doresain was promoted to a demi-god in Libris Mortis, and the true ghoul was carried over into 3E as the "gravetouched ghoul".
The ghouls and their king have appeared more recently as well. The Empire of the Ghouls was ENnie-nominated last year, and that sourcebook/adventure described their magic, culture, gods, and society in detail. The Imperial ghouls reappear (in a cameo role) in Halls of the Mountain King.
Finally, Bruce Cordell is working on an Epic "Kingdom of the Ghouls" due to ship later this year.
Thanks, Wolfgang. Great info.
OT:
I just wrote the complete history of the D&D ghoul, true ghoul, kingdom, etc, and the boards ATE MY POST.
Ouch! Sorry to hear that, it would have made a great read.
Deeply irritated by the rapid way my account times out (and amused by the irony of the ghouls being eaten), let me summarize it for you quickly:
I wrote the "Ecology of the Ghoul" article for Dragon #252, which you can probably pick up here at Paizo.
I also invented the true ghoul in "Kingdom of the Ghouls" (Dungeon #70), which is out of print. Check eBay. That's also where Doresain, king of the ghouls, is first fleshed out with a name, appearance, kingdom and so forth (his 1E appearance was just as a nameless feudal servant of Orcus). Doresain was promoted to a demi-god in Libris Mortis, and the true ghoul was carried over into 3E as the "gravetouched ghoul".
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll look for them both on Noble Knight. And I have Libris Mortis, and I like the ghoulish info from that tome. It's helpful to use 'individual' undead (undead with templates, character classes, etc.) at levels where the PCs aren't quite ready for liches and vampires as yet -- and with the stuff in LM (as well as the 'Dread Ghoul/Dread Ghast' from the Advanecd Bestiary), I can make ghouls up to even epic level for heroes who need a challenge...
The ghouls and their king have appeared more recently as well. The Empire of the Ghouls was ENnie-nominated last year, and that sourcebook/adventure described their magic, culture, gods, and society in detail. The Imperial ghouls reappear (in a cameo role) in Halls of the Mountain King.Finally, Bruce Cordell is working on an Epic "Kingdom of the Ghouls" due to ship later this year.
Okay, and where can I find Empire of the Ghouls? It sounds like my kind of book, and I'll keep an eye open for the halls of the Mountain King.
Thank you so much for all your help.
Yet another ghoulish idea -- connecting the French Revolution-ish antics in Galt, and the 'French' ancestry given some ghouls in the Lovecraft mythos (the Comte D'erlette, Cultes des Goules, the catacombs...) -- what if the Gray Monks in Galt, the always-robed and anonymous men who work the revolutionary guillotines -- were a cult or pack of ghouls using the Revolution to feed themselves?
After all, the bodies of the counterrevolutionaries have to go somewhere, so why not give them to the Gray Monks? And something about the idea of a underground nationof ghouls encouraging Galt's state of anarchy just so they can 'legally' get all the meals they want appeals to me.
Though I wonder what will ever happen should one of the soul-trapping guillotines ever be broken, and all those angry spirits be released.
The Gray Monks would then utilize a vast subterranean realm like the Paris Catacombs where they would stack the bones after they've eaten the flesh and sucked the marrow. If they could gain authority over all funerary services, what a coup that would be for them...
Great ideas, Eric!
The Gray Monks would then utilize a vast subterranean realm like the Paris Catacombs where they would stack the bones after they've eaten the flesh and sucked the marrow. If they could gain authority over all funerary services, what a coup that would be for them...
Great ideas, Eric!
Glad you like the idea, Mairkurion.
It could work even better if (depending on how close to the actual French Revolution you want to play it) all 'repressive' religion get banned, and the ghouls can start turning the populace on to Urgathoa or Kabriri...
The Gray Monks would then utilize a vast subterranean realm like the Paris Catacombs where they would stack the bones after they've eaten the flesh and sucked the marrow. If they could gain authority over all funerary services, what a coup that would be for them...
Great ideas, Eric!
I get the idea for a temple of Urgathoa located inside the catacombs (or Kabriri if you'd rather use him): the Osseous Cathedral, made entirely of the bones of those slain in the Galtan Revolution, wherein the Grey Gardeners and their priestly masters -- once aristocrats in Galt centuries ago, driven below by the royal house for their heretical worship of the ghoul-god, and now ravenous and scheming undead -- plot the assassinations and manipulations they use to keep the Endless Revolution going. The feasts will not cease. The human sacrifices before the cheering and ignorant Galtan mob will not cease. Urgathoa and her children shall feed.