DM Barcas - Kingmaker: Rivers Run Red

Game Master Isaac Duplechain

So for everyone playing the home game version of Newhaven Law, here's a summation of what Verik thinks so that it doesn't have to take up in-game posts...

Verik's Logic Train of Wacky Newhaven Law and Legal Precedence
1) The Stag Lord was a bad bad man. He did many bad things to many people.
2) The group had lawful status via the Restov Charter to judge and condemn criminals and bandits, including use of the penalty of death (i.e. rope or sword). They do this is 4708, and also have Kressle "extradited" to the Brevoy House of Lebeda.
3) The group fights the Stag Lord on the battlefield and slays him, which is legally an execution 'by the sword' as stated in the Charter. (True, though they never really fully described or illuminated his crimes, so questions could arise as to what they condemned and executed him for).
4) With the Stag Lord 'executed' his sentence has been lawfully carried out in accordance with the precepts of Abadar (presumably for 'all' crimes Nikolai committed as Stag Lord, but there was no record of all that he did).
5) Execution is execution, the highest form of punishment. He can't be executed more than once. He can't be put into prison or branded or lashed or have his hand cut off, because he is dead. Execution trumps all else.
6) The Stag Lord's body is destroyed; Verik fulfills the sacred terms of Abadar as it relates to crime, execution and post-execution duties (note he was inexperienced in doing this, so the night of Stagfall was confusing for him on this - he thinks he did it right).
7) Newhaven is founded and new laws are made, the Founders are made the new ruling authority, Verik is made the legal arbiter of law and trials (he could be replaced with appointed magistrates), the Charter is declared inactive (remember after all that the Mayor tried to have us killed by bandits), but past acts still hold.
8) Jemini and Nikolai miraculously return via divine resurrection (Huzzah and much rejoicing).
9) Petitions begin on Nikolai's past crimes while the Founders are out.
10) Petitions of Nikolai's prior crimes before execution are brought forward by Ilyana Flaxton.
11) In Newhaven, those past crimes can be illuminated for public display, but as they happened during the time before Stagfall, his sentence was already carried out (as Verik did not fully account for every crime the Stag Lord committed and formally tie that to the record, perhaps he could be accountable for neglect by the Council on that point).
12a) Verik cannot, by law and by faith, carry out a second sentence for crimes that were already given sentence (again though the crimes which would have applied are murky and weren't all described).
12b) Verik cannot, by law and by faith, carry out a lesser sentence for crimes when the ultimate sentence of death was given for other crimes.
13) It is unlawful for a resurrection of the Stag Lord to have ever occurred (loophole!), even though the resurrection itself is a divine act and must be respected. The acting mortal parties could/should be arrested for treason, based on historical precedent (but in this case there was no mortal party...unless Jemini is considered the acting party even though she was also dead -- weird!).

Things Verik Would Argue Against But Cannot Dispute Legally
1) The Founder's Council can decide for Brevians (or any outside party) to come in to Newhaven and review some sort of political matter, provided they don't carry out some sort of law or punishment. They can have any meetings or exhibitions the Founders want to grant them - Verik just would say it cannot be considered a legal trial.
2) The Founder's Council could extradite Nikolai to Brevoy or allow Brevians to take him, as Nikolai is a Brevian noble.
3) Nikolai, Jemini, Akiros, etc. could take on any penance of their own volition, and Verik cannot declare that as punishment unlawfully applied, even if the penances were 'suggested' by the Brevians. He would demand to verify their agreement to voluntary penance(s) with a Truthtelling spell to ensure there was no magical compulsion or coercion, but if they want to hang or imprison themselves he can't stop it. Verik has to rule that an act of atonement, and not legal punishment.
4) Verik could be removed as Newhaven's Arbiter of Law by the Founder's Council in a vote, and appoint a separate magistrate (or more than one) to arbitrate cases. Arbiter/magistrate and the role of High Cleric are two different functions. The Founders could also decide if the magistrates should be members of Abadar clergy or not. To be fair, Abadarian Bankers probably have long-standing tradition to "approve" or "sanction" all lawfully-appointed magistrates and judges in a town or region.

EDIT: Okay so that's all I got. Waiting to see what the others are going to do, especially this powerful notion of Jemini's speech and including herself in any mock trial and penance that Nikolai gets. Wow! Hmm I'm wondering what Nikolai thinks of all of this and if he's going to respond to all these folks accusing and talking about him!

You can always blame Archbanker Vinodragov.

You can always blame Archbanker Vinodragov.

Yeah well I figured I punched that time card enough already, and so it's time for Verik to put up or shut up. I have to be careful too or else you're likely to throw the Grigori-Vinodragov-Alexius trifecta at me :)

I'm okay with it being a big deal for Verik. Conflict is good for the story. You weren't here when we had a big rift about Taisper killing Orlivanch, but that was a really similar situation. It turned out okay...

...it did? Maybe for everyone else...

...yeah, Taisper is still distant from the group and his planned shift to good is yet to happen. He's probably closer to going evil even though he rejected Alexius. [/imo].

I agree.

I think a lot of things fizzled in the time after Orlivanch, both in-game and at the meta level, and relationships were damaged and/or soured permanently.

TBH I've thought numerous times the game would be better off if I yanked Taisper from the group, but I've always balked for the purely selfish reason that this is an amazing group to be playing with and I don't want to give it up, even if my PC is currently not helping and has sadly turned into a lame batman-wannabe.

You know when I first started reading the campaign back when Rellen was Verik and the original cast was playing, I was blown away by that part of the story with Orlivanch and the moral/ethical struggles that it produced - between the characters and especially the internal struggle with Taisper. Simply blown away as a reader. I said to myself "now here's a group of players that have some ba#ls and are willing to take some big risks with character and story development" and that holds true for some major choices and flaws in all the characters.

That being said, I can understand how playing a flawed or conflicted character can drain you as a player, and how without realizing it you can role-play yourself into a corner. At the end of the day the character has to be fun to play, or at least have aspects that are fun to play even if other aspects are conflicting and uncomfortable. Ultimately there needs to be a way out of the box (a bit) so that playing him is intense but enjoyable, with at least some bits of lightness and humor.

The Verik-Taisper relationship is complicated, but I've been thinking since the end of Chapter 1 that perhaps there's a nugget of true understanding there for those two that would help Taisper with his evolution. DRA I'll PM you on a couple of things later with respect to Verik, but know that if there's anything which can help make Taisper more enjoyable to play for you I'd do as a player.

On similar grounds I've always been concerned with the Nikolai redemption story, because that's a great but TOUGH road that's not redeemable in a month of posting. I don't pretend to know the reasons for PsionicFox leaving so soon after taking him on in Chapter 2, but I fancied in my mind that he was faced with all the seriousness/conflict/struggle/lack of friendship/dark emotions and went "EJECT!" on the character. I know I'd have a time of it playing Nikolai every day and having to feel the intensity of it, but I figured Steven knows what he signed up for, and has the goal of light at the end of the tunnel.

I picked Steven specifically for that reason, having seen his success at playing Shoto Imuri. I originally gave PsionicFox a character because I felt bad for poaching Kyras from him in Mists of War, but that turned to be a disappointment. Steven has been nothing but stellar outside his computer being on the fritz.

Regarding Taisper, I will not hear your qualms! I think he's fascinating. His presence really does add a lot to the game and the party dynamics. That's my opinion, at least.

I've been waiting for that post for literally over a year.

Meow, I hope that you got the cup in on time. You're gonna need it, as this storyline is going to run Zander ragged.

"I'm Zander. Zander Orlovsky."

o.O

Curve-ball!

O.o

For the life of me I cannot remember if/what Jemini has said about her family relations. Searching suggests nothing. Let me know if there is something important I don't remember.

I've forgotten who Zander directly told about his real name - Berrin, for sure. Taisper, maybe? He denied it when confronted by Jemini, and they haven't talked about it since.

I imagine that Jemini likely thinks her sister is a little frivolous, being more of a traditional princess type than Jemini. That doesn't mean that there's not a fondness there.

Verik once again looks at Kesten, so neatly announcing the representatives with clear advanced knowledge of their arrival. Other than nodding and standing the customary amount of time for noble dignitaries, he says nothing, his face purposely impassive. The announcement of Zander Orlovsky, however, causes an eyebrow to raise, stirring shadowy memories in his mind from travels over a year ago.

Someone's quite uncharitable towards Kesten. Why can't he just be excited to surprise Jemini with her sister?

And Zander Orlovsky.

I've forgotten who Zander directly told about his real name - Berrin, for sure. Taisper, maybe? He denied it when confronted by Jemini, and they haven't talked about it since.

I imagine that Jemini likely thinks her sister is a little frivolous, being more of a traditional princess type than Jemini. That doesn't mean that there's not a fondness there.

Hah! Shows what you know. Jemini adores her sister, and if anything she may be a little jealous (in the way of admiration) of her sister. Not Elanna's beauty, but one of her other qualities.

She's certainly not frivolous, at least not in a comparative sense - the Lebeda family is thrifty. Offspring are raised with the expectation of delivering results and working towards achieving these results.

'Verik of Abadar' wrote:

Verik once again looks at Kesten, so neatly announcing the representatives with clear advanced knowledge of their arrival. Other than nodding and standing the customary amount of time for noble dignitaries, he says nothing, his face purposely impassive. The announcement of Zander Orlovsky, however, causes an eyebrow to raise, stirring shadowy memories in his mind from travels over a year ago.

Someone's quite uncharitable towards Kesten. Why can't he just be excited to surprise Jemini with her sister?

And Zander Orlovsky.

Well you know Verik can be wrong about a lot of things - the whole Brevian nobility thing is sticking in his craw right now and he may see shadows where there aren't any. He was quite taken by the Lebedas until the whole Vinodragov thing blew up at Jemini's failed resurrection. He may be cool to Kesten for a bit while all this goes on - err too bad someone like Tandlara isn't around to give Verik some needed insight on politics and loyalties!

I've forgotten who Zander directly told about his real name - Berrin, for sure. Taisper, maybe? He denied it when confronted by Jemini, and they haven't talked about it since.

Taisper overheard Zander and Berrin talking, but didn't understand the ramifications of what Zander said and just never brought it up. You can bet he's beginning to understand the ramifications now, though.

DMB has the right of it, Zander told Berrin and Berrin told Jemini who failed a sence motive check when Zander denied it (an aweful bluff check met by a worse sence motive check iirc).

DMB has the right of it, Zander told Berrin and Berrin told Jemini who failed a sence motive check when Zander denied it (an aweful bluff check met by a worse sence motive check iirc).

Phew -- was rereading the Chapter 1 bits to see if Verik was somehow aware of this conversation, but he can be blissfully ignorant. Carry on! (grabs popcorn)

I want to say that he told Tandlara as well, but I don't remember.

Now that was fun. I think social awkwardness wins out over rage in a face-to-face situation, even if its your own face. And instead Zander turns the rage upon himself, even though it is directed at his father.

Tandlara knows. She is the only one that knows the 'whole' story I believe. Berrin heard the name from Zander. And Jemini has heard it from Berrin and carries her own suspicions. And Taisper has overheard it too apparently.

I was at your funeral...

Oh, lol. Please, carry on.

Had a busy weekend (was a holiday weekend here).

Will post something tomorrow

HP for Oracle: 1d8 ⇒ 7

HP for Oracle: 1d8

Wow, Oracle of Battle eh? What's the Curse you're going to take for him?

Clouded Vision ;)

LOL!

Yup! Was a difficult choice, but consulted with the Boss on it and he agreed that seemed the best way to go. Will definitely provide some significant challenges for Akiros, but should also serve up some meaty RP oppourtunities as well.

Oh, and hey, while I'm here again, did you all roll for stats originally or use the point system?

If was rolling, would Akiros possibly get a chance to do that Barcus, as his stats were provided by the APG?

And if was point system, as an NPC originally, were his points on the same level as the PCs? And if not, could/should they be?

Something I've been wondering about for a while but kept forgetting to ask about till now.

Honestly not a big deal though, if the decision is made to keep him as he is, I'm fine to roll with that. Just thought I'd bring it up while I'm already in the midst of updating him to level 5.

EDIT: oh, and another craft request to add to the list Verik! Aa a thingy of CHR would be very helpful for Akiros as well, and since he's got the cash for it...actually, now I think on it, I'd rather that take priority over the belt of STR, if ya don't mind

EDIT: oh, and another craft request to add to the list Verik! Aa a thingy of CHR would be very helpful for Akiros as well, and since he's got the cash for it...actually, now I think on it, I'd rather that take priority over the belt of STR, if ya don't mind

Yep yep updated the crafting list for review below. Just to reiterate, I'm putting items on a list here so that DMB can give a nod on when it would be feasible for them to be crafted and available with respect to the story timeline, so don't deduct any cash yet :)

I put the charisma headpiece in place of the belt, but kept the belt as an option for you at the end of the list - if you don't want to spend money on both I'll remove it of course. Also, if you have an idea on what kind of headpiece (helm, hat, etc.) and any description on it we'll go with that, or if not I can make up something suitable.

awesome, thanks. Will come up with a description soon.

I hope you guys ain't waiting on Berrin to pipe in on this scene here, he's just background noise with what's going on...

He'll pipe in if I feel the itch. No itch so far...

I have been pretty swamped this week. I will post tomorrow and sunday. I will be out of town next monday through wednesday. I will be able to post a little though.

Working hard on a paper for my Homicide Investigation class. I have not forgotten you guys.

Ok Akiros is all done and Oracled up to level 5

If anyone notices any errors lemme know

I believe I'll have a dream sequence where he confronts his God, or vice versa, before his oracle abilities are fully granted him

You picked some third party spells. I haven't allowed any non-Paizo sources in, though DRA does in his games.

Other than that, I think it is fine. Battlecry seems a mite underpowered, though I suppose it makes sense from a roleplaying view.

Ah, that's right.

Dang it. Cuz actually All of his spells but one I think are 3-rd party. Mainly because none of the Paizo spells seemed to really fit his flavour, especially without stepping on the toes of the other three divine casters in the group.

Not trying to rock the boat or anything, but is there anyway we could allow them? They do all have handy links to their descriptions! If not, it's cool, but I'll have to do some serious rethinking of the spells, and perhaps the class it self.

And ya, Battlecry seems a bit weak with only one use a day especially (feel free to use your mighty DM abilities to change it if you feel it's needed ; ) but I was thinking that particularly in a army/large scale battle situation it might come in handy. But perhaps I should ask, are we likely to ever, or often be engaged in such?

EDIT: And just taking a quick peek at the other chaps again, never really considered it before, but the Revelations do seem quite a bit underpowered compared to, say, the Cleric Domain abilities, or the Oracle to the Cleric in general. Not complaining, just observing. I still like the idea of Akiros as a Battle Oracle.

You will be in a great many battle situations. Many. Some sooner rather than later.

I think the movement one would be a better pick, but that is just my opinion.

I'd prefer Paizo sources only. Keeps us all on the same page.

Oh and to answer your earlier question, Akiros has almost the right ability spread at 20 points. By our original creation rules, he should get 22. Which means he could bump Charisma by 1 and either Dexterity, Intelligence, or Wisdom by 1.

Ok, I understand (but Drat! Those were some nifty spells! By the way, personally I have no problem if you let Everyone use 3rd party stuff. just sayin' ; )

But back to the thinking/drawing board. I'll skim through the Very limited cleric/oracle spell list (its mainly the Orisons I speak of, I mean seriously, there's only 13 of them!!) and try and pick things that make sense for him but without stepping on too many toes. Apologies in advance though as I surely will crunch a few.

Oh and hey, you're right, I do like the surprising charge better. That had been my number 2 choice, but for some reason this time while finishing up my sheet when I glanced at it , I saw it as needing to be at 7th level to take it. If you don't mind, I'll switch.

Not a problem. Charge away.

It feels good to give the game some attention. While it isn't fun to type on the Kindle, sometimes the extra time to think really serves me well.

Once Steven gets back, I'll give Nikolai his own interaction. I still need his reaction to the charges levied upon him, which I am really looking forward to.

Have Jhod and Zander ever really interacted? I don't think so. Always good to have new interactions. I'm looking forward to a future interaction between Verik or Taisper and Kesten, who I have unfortunately underdeveloped.

Thanks re the points. I'll give him the Chr and 1 in Wis

Wow. Long post.

I'm going to follow dra's example and get a fresh pot of coffee before delving in...

Lol to you both, not sure you'll need a whole pot B, but hope it helps!

That. Was. Awesome. Sent shivers down my spine, just, awesome.

Heads up. I'm out of town till monday, internet will be splotchy at best but I hope to keep up. Feel free to DMPC Berrin till then Isaac, you know his as well as I do.

That. Was. Awesome. Sent shivers down my spine, just, awesome.

Hey thanks bro, I really appreciate that. Glad you enjoyed it. : )

Well we know what's going on with Akiros (wow) and Berrin (heh), but I'm waiting for the players' reaction for Jemini to her sister as well as Zander to Jhod. I can throw something in there that Verik has planned next, but really didn't want to push the timeline forward with these conversations hanging out there.

Zander will post tonight. Real-life too busy right now.

RL is a bummer sometimes isn't it :) I have a major project deadline in just under four weeks that time is moving way too fast on. I thought summer was supposed to be slower or something?

I study agriculture data, so summer is my busy period.