Hmm.. so I guess she counts as a level 1 wizard for the sake of setting the DC etc, but the actual feat 'Command Undead' should work off of her full level?
I'm not sure how this was intended to work. On one hand, if it only works at level 1 the whole game, it's pretty worthless as far as abilities go. On the other hand, if the exploit gives you both Channel Negative Energy and Command Undead as your full level, I think it's a bit too strong and completely misses the normal drawback of taking an arcane school in this way. It seems important to me that counting as a level 1 wizard without spending an arcane point should matter, to some degree at least.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this? I'm sorry it's holding up the game, but it actually does matter here. Heh.
Edit: Looks like I got Ninja'd lol. I think the best way to rule here is that you use your full wizard level for HD to control, but the DC is set as a level 1 wizard(per the Power over Undead ability) unless you spend a point to increase your level. Does that seem reasonable to you?
I'm not sure how this was intended to work. On one hand, if it only works at level 1 the whole game, it's pretty worthless as far as abilities go. On the other hand, if the exploit gives you both Channel Negative Energy and Command Undead as your full level, I think it's a bit too strong and completely misses the normal drawback of taking an arcane school in this way. It seems important to me that counting as a level 1 wizard without spending an arcane point should matter, to some degree at least.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this? I'm sorry it's holding up the game, but it actually does matter here. Heh.
So, I think the important line from Power Over Undead is this:
You can channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier, but only to use the selected feat.
Emphasis mine. (Basically she can't use Channel Energy for anything else.)
The other issue is that School Understanding mentions spending a point from the arcane reservoir to increase the duration, but that is basically Instantaneous for this ability. However this would also grant a second 1st level ability from the associated school. If that school were Undead and she gained the Bolster ability, that ability would normally be limited to that of a 1st level wizard, but would be boosted to having her Wizard levels count as Arcanist levels which would count as Wizard levels for the duration of the ability. (I think)
If it is a sticking point I'll re-work Cerise as a standard Necromancy specialist Wizard. Exploits are cool, but not at the expense of one of the core mechanics of her build.
One way or another, Cerise will be able to Channel at her full level, so you can move on with Gameplay while we figure this out.
I really don't mind re-working her if it turns out I read School Understanding wrong. I've played standard necromancers plenty of times and I like them.
I don't think it's really a matter of reading the ability wrong. It feels more like an oversight on the part of the designers. Trading the necromancy school to get exploits and then trading just one exploit for the best part of the necromancy school at full power feels a lot like gaming the system. If you're willing to rework as a necromancer, I'd be a lot more comfortable with that.
I'm definitely still open to more discussion on it if you want and I appreciate everyone's patience.
Oh, I admit, it absolutely is gaming the system. Trading Bolster and the higher level necromancy stuff for Exploits is a good trade. :)
No problem. I'll have a rebuild done tonight sometime.
I'm considering Pact Wizard as my rebuild, but it's sent me down an interesting theological rabbit hole.
As far as Outsider servants are concerned, what creatures serve Wee Jas? Nothing I can figure seems to make sense and nothing on the internet mentions it.
Here's what I know-
1. She's Lawful Neutral. Seems like her servants probably are too.
2. Her portfolio is Death, Law, Fire, Magic, and Secrets
3. She lives in the lowest level of Acheron, in a palace made of ice, at the very bottom of the river Styx.
Closest thing I can find in Pathfinder is probably Psychopomps, but they hate undead, and Wee Jas doesn't mind undead as long as they aren't the kind that damage or alter souls themselves.
Next closest are Devils. They're expressly evil though, and Wee Jas is not.
After that it's Inevitables, which doesn't seem quite right either because Wee Jas is a god of magic not tech or crafting.
Another possibility is Daemons, who are Neutral Evil and all about soul collection, but they're also about destroying souls, which is about as far opposed to Wee Jas as it gets.
Anyone have any ideas here?
Honestly, I think Rakshasa make a lot of sense given her focus on physical appearance and beauty (Vanity). I can't see any other residents of that plane serving her.
I found this excerpt from an old second edition reference.
Wee Jas prefers to summon lawful dragons (primarily blue, green, emerald, and sapphire breeds, although her influence extends to bronze, silver, gold, and steel dragons) and lawful undead (wights, wraiths, spectres, mummies, and ghosts) to do her bidding and act as her representatives. The tasks she sets for these creatures cannot violate their alignment. She also numbers among her extra-planar servitors fiends (primarily abishai, erinyes, hamatula, and osyluth baatezu, but sometimes arcanaloths, never tanar'ri); einheriar (fallen Suel soldiers and wizards); imps; maelephants; maruts; aasimars; noctrals; and observers
Wow, that's a pretty wide list. It's a bit hard to make that work with the Pact Wizard's ability.
A pact wizard enters into a bargain with an extraplanar being in order to gain increased wizardly powers. At 1st level, he selects a patron belonging to one specific subtype of outsider for which there exists an improved familiar option. The pact wizard can select a subtype of outsider even with a diametrically opposed alignment; in this case, the patron being offers the pact in an attempt to tempt or redeem the pact wizard. A pact wizard whose alignment shifts away from the chosen outsider subtype, who grossly abuses his familiar or any outsider of the chosen subtype, or who commits egregious acts against the alignment of the patron loses all the benefits of this archetype (but keeps the additional opposition school) until he receives an atonement.
my plan was to form a Pact with Wee Jas through one of her powerful servitors, and have my familiar eventually become that servitor's type of Improved Familiar.
It sounds like Imp is probably the closest fit. Any objection to that?
Sounds good to me.
It's a ways off, but I'm thinking of something like a mini-Erines who was depowered as some sort of punishment and is earning back her status. Vain, arrogent, spiteful, but very helpful in spite of that.
For right now she'll start out as a very mouthy raven.
Got beat up at work the past few days but I'm off today so I'll get a thorough post in at some point.
I hadn't forgotten about the owlbear but I was waiting for it to get into trouble until an opportune moment. lol
Oh, I hadn't forgotten it either ;) No worries about work... I completely sympathize there, plus I'm getting over the flu.
Percival, you around?
Percival, you around?
He hasn't posted in any of his games since Monday. Maybe the server updates broke something in his bookmarks?
I tried contacting him with no luck. I hope he's alright.
I won't have time to post until tonight but the zombies are going to reply, sort of.
:)
Advanced Warning: Tomorrow is both of my kids birthdays, so I probably won't be able to make a post. Also, Saturday is their birthday party, so I probably won't be able to post that day either.
Thanks!
I just noticed the color tags work on my PC but not on my phone. Are they working for you guys?
I just noticed the color tags work on my PC but not on my phone. Are they working for you guys?
Not working for me, I keep seeing the code.
Nope. They don't work for me on my phone or my laptop
Aww but it's so pretty on my PC, dang!
Ok I'll go back to normal text.
The next post requires a good bit of setup. I'll have time to put it together tomorrow night.
Also, it's been three weeks since Percival's last post. I plan to bot him in combat without rolling dice, I'll just narrate his actions etc.
That said, I don't feel that comfortable roleplaying the character as I'm not sure I'd do him justice, so I want to move him on from the story once we get clear of the observatory.
Did we want to discuss whether to try to find a replacement or continue with 4 players, assuming he's not coming back?
Should we wait longer?
I hope Percival comes back. It's odd for him to have dropped entirely off the boards. That has me concerned that something happened to him. I don't like the idea of writing him out of the story completely. My recommendation would be to come up with a way to get him out of the party but with the possibility of returning if if he returns to the boards.
I think the 4 person group we have now is fine. I think all our party roles are filled. I vote no on finding another player.
Chaetris: That's a valuable rug, let's keep it clean.
Pythia: *dumps everything onto the rug*
My recommendation would be to come up with a way to get him out of the party but with the possibility of returning if if he returns to the boards.
I'll think on ways to make that happen. Seems like a smarter way to go.
I also hope he comes back. If we can keep things flowing well enough with 4, I'm fine with that plan.
I'm ok either way. For the time being he could simply wind up staying in town. Possibly his dad getting hurt in the mine or ill. He'd probably spend some time helping family.
Unless we find that we need more damage output, we can probably manage on our current party. But long term we may find that another set of hands would be useful.
Chaetris: That's a valuable rug, let's keep it clean.
Pythia: *dumps everything onto the rug*
Yup. And that's why we love her. :)
Yup. :)
Hahaha.
I'm lucky you guys all seem to have a good attitude about her. I'm sure she'd drive some players crazy.
Nope, Pythia's fun.
FYI to the group, I've been having some unexpected 12 hour work days in the middle of OutPost starting and some other personal stuff. I'm definitely around, just a bit more strapped for time than I'd like.
I'll get combat started tonight. It'll be... interesting :)
Dun dun dun...
Been sick. Will get an update in the morning.
Ok hopefully I didn't miss anything. Kael, you can use the same roll you had before for your attack if you want.
Ok, paralyzed. That definitely sucks. Not many options.
Produce Flame is a Spell Like Ability, so I can activate it while paralyzed. I have no idea if I can actually use it though. The spell description notes that the balls of fire are "thrown" which seems to imply movement of some kind. I'm not sure though. Can Cerise launch fireballs from her hand without moving her hand?
I can also still Channel, so if Phee dies I can try to take control of other undead.
You could definitely activate the Produce Flame effect for use later, but it specifically works like a thrown weapon. Heh.
I guess you could release Phee and try to control one of the closer ones but I'm not sure if that's a good idea. :)
No. The marbles will probably keep the other two zombies locked down for another round or two. I have faith that the group can handle the rest of them. I'll just sit here with my hands on fire and glare really hard.
I had a post all set up... then forgot to post it. If need be, my action is going to take a 5' step and swing at the big zombie with the roll I made, cursing at Pythia's tactics and making a note to make some drawn instructions for her.
Careful with that. She might start drawing you her own instructions. Then nobody wins.
I think she's doing pretty damned well for a drunk prostitute/seer whose first brush with danger was yesterday! Haha.
Huh. I think you guys might be in trouble.
I'll get Percival involved.
Also, if you guys do decide you do want a 5th person, I'd recruit that person via invitation rather than open recruitment and I'd be open to 6 players if Percival returned.
I mention this only because we're seeing firsthand the downside of a smaller group. Lol
Well, a timely withdraw until Kael stops running might be in order. This seems like another one of those "tough fights."
I wouldn't mind a fifth / sixth. 5 does seem to be the magic number in PBP to keep things rolling without getting bogged down, but keeping a spot open for Percival if he comes back sounds good. There is going to be some attrition over time.
SOmeone's going to have to drag Cerise. :)
If a tactical retreat is the plan, Percival is in a good position to do that. Is everyone on board with that plan?
Also, anyone else want to chime in on adding someone? I have a player in mind but would also be open to suggestions.
A retreat might be a reasonable time to bring someone in.
I don't think we meant retreat and leave. I think we meant retreat and regroup before coming back in once Kael comes back and Cerise isn't paralyzed.
Filge is down a couple spells and we aren't badly hurt. This is a great time to keep the pressure up.
I’m on board with bringing in a new player. As for a tactical regrouping, that may be harder than it sounds. But I’m up for it. If Percival grabs Cerise, I can nudge Pythia.
I thought about having Phee try to switch tactics, but even if it wanted to, which I'm not sure it did, it would have a very low chance of success. So I just had it continue following your initial instructions.
Retreat is a bit more complicated now, but I think still possible. And returning immediately might work. Kael could potentially make pretty quick work of the encounter if he rolls well.
Yeah, we've pretty much botched this one up from the beginning. Letting a wizard get round after round of spells off with no one moving to get close or box him in was a big mistake. As is not having anyone with a ranged weapon ready actions to shoot him when he starts casting. Even a tanglefoot bag would have helped here.
Considering that the dice really haven't been on our side this fight it's possible good tactics wouldn't have saved us ayway.
Well, looking at the DCs, Kael had roughly a 25% chance of making his save, so I'm glad he got hit with the Fear and not the Blindness. We had some tactical errors and fought from a disadvantageous position against a stronger and numerically superior group of foes. We can try to work on tactics later, but the retreat is probably the best move.
Kael can probably carve through the remaining zombies pretty quickly, which have been the only things to only do damage so far.
Makes Kael a "I am the tank. If you see me running, please try to keep up. It shouldn't be too hard, I only move 20'" sign to put on his armor.
Chaetris' action were to take place before Pythia's attack, would she run instead?
I think if you stay, you might die.