Here is, of course, the discussion thread.
Once everyone has checked in, we will go over some optional rules suggestions and see what everyone's thoughts on it are. I wouldn't mind getting the input of the understudys as well, but I don't require it.
Although I am an understudy, I figured I would post so that I have this on my list and can follow it. I would love to join this if someone drops out in the near future.
Thanks for the hard work of digging through all those applications.
Miraji/Tirion
No problem, I actually wanted the understudys to post here. It's something I'm trying out, considering the norm for PbP, usually within the first 3 months either a player or GM disappears. This way, instead of having to open a new recruitment, for however many are needed, I can just go to the understudys and have one person waiting in the wings.
Present and looking forward to the game
I will grab another brew at the bar and await my turn at the seas.
Congrats to those who got in. Just popping in to make it known that I am still very much interested.
Sounds good. I will dot the gameplay when you start it so that it appears on my list.
Thank-you kindly for the invitation. Ready to sail the seas with this fine crew o' folks.
Thanks for selecting me! - Bit sorry that Ally didn't get in too, but maybe she'll have a chance to join us later.
Lookin forward to floggin the oggin. (so to speak)
Looking at what is provided, and the gaps that would exist accordingly, I'm trading two of the understudys in who they replace.
Miraji is now the understudy of Kelly (both being support type builds)
Jensen is now the understudy of Balsooma (both being melee type builds)
I just realized that they worked together, but that the team would have extra melee if Kelly dropped, or extra support, less melee if Balsooma dropped. I hope this is not a problem for anyone?
Checking in, Aardvark DM thanks for inviting me, I'm looking forward to the game.
Now that I have at least the four primes, I wanted to discuss some rules I'm toying with.
First, I had mentioned giving Leadership for free at 9th level. The way I see it, the Paizo AP's offer many good and viable NPC's. Cohorts will be selected from one of these NPC's, RP'd by me, but if you so wish, may be controlled by you (their leader) in combat. All followers will be NPC classes, and have very little game activity. This is a throwback to the older days, where reaching 9th or 10th level found many classes with followers.
Second, may be a bit different. Given that PbP's tend to be long and slow, I would like to speed up saves. Instead of you or I posting an effect, and then waiting for the other to roll for the results. I would like to use the 4E attack/defense style for saves. So, if your saves are:
Fort +2
Ref +4
Will +6
and your DC's are 13 for 0th, and 14 for 1st
They would instead be:
Fort 12
Ref 14
Will 16
Attacks +3 for 0th and +4 for 1st
Let me know your opinions.
I know I am an understudy, but I am confused as to what you mean with the saves/attacks above. I have never played 4ed. Played D&D, AD&D and PF - missed all the 2ed, 3ed, 3.5 etc.
So, Miraji, for example has saves of +3, +2, and +6. And the DC's of her spells are 14 for 0th level, and 15 for 1st level.
If I cast a spell from an enemy, and the Will DC is 14, I would wait for the player to post a roll with their modifier. In Miraji's case 1d20+6. If they are reversed, Miraji instead has a hard set Will Defense of 16, and the enemy casting the spell has to roll to hit that defense. Since they are using a DC 14 spell, they would instead roll 1d20+4, against Miraji's set defense of 16.
What this does, is allow both players and myself, to not have to wait for the other roll to post the results, or flavor the effect.
I control the enemy, they cast on Miraji and roll the spell attack. Knowing Miraji's defense, I don't need to wait for her to post just to see if there's an effect or not. At the table there is no delay, but in PbP every spell becomes a delay waiting for the roll.
I like the sound of the attack/defense saves. Almost anything that speeds up play is beneficial in my opinion.
How do you handle perception checks? There are some DMs who role them along with sense motive and bluff checks in order to keep the players in suspense, so to speak.
Since I have been playing 4th most recently anyway and am used to using defenses vs saves, I have no problem using that system.
I'm not a huge fan of the static defence system in 4E, but I can see how it will speed up pbp play. Sounds good to me.
For the checks of unknown success, there are two ways. If the player actively decides to use a skill, they roll at the time of declaration and RP accordingly.
I don't trust him, I'm going to use Sense Motive 1d20+4
I search the room, Perception 1d20+2
But when those rolls come back as 6, you feel that you can't find any holes in the story, or that you searched your best. And if you try to stealth with a 3, you think you are the quietest thing since sliced bread... yeah, I guess sliced bread is quiet.
Now, when something is in the backdrop that you are unaware of, I intend to roll. Pretty much is just Perception.
You make sliced bread sound menacing. I can't wait to see how you spin tales of adventure.
Please remind me if you plan to use maps or just descriptions. Either one works for me.
The changes sound very solid for this type of setting, are the dc's and free leadership the only changes you are considering?
Doesn't seem to change the odds so looks good to me.
Any other changes? Are we using the Peg legs & Eye patches rules?
Wrong alias...
Yes I use maps, religiously, as I'm a visual person and as a player I spend more time asking where everything is than if there was just a map. Because of that, I find them very useful.
Yes, Ciara, thanks for the reminder. I would like to use the Peg Legs & Eye Patches rules. Having a nice simple rule for longer lasting effects due to massive damage (instead of just insta-death which I never used), is a nice addition. I wouldn't mind a more extensive table for it, but for trying it out the small table works.
Jensen, I would go for the understudy, and if not available I would allow any of the others to make a character to fill the role. Each understudy is set to fill the gap left by the original. If they are in another role, they aren't filling that gap and the delicate balance is off. But, for sticking around, they would get the first offer before I went to recruitment.
Sounds good.
I have no problems with the changes and using the Peg-legs and Eye-patches rule. Look forward to the game starting, even if I'm not in it.
Ok, I think I understand the system. I am sure I will figure it out after the first few rolls.
There is one other houserule I've used since early 3.5, and have included it in another PbP I'm running, but I think the players forget more often than not.
I've always hated the "I can't even fail on a 1 to make my ... check, so there's no point in rolling." Because of that I instituted a Crit/Fumble effect to skills. Basically, a twenty adds an addl +10 to your total, and a 1 means -10 to your total. Having a +15 Stealth, and rolling a 1 would be a total of 6 (1+15-10), or having a +2 Perception and rolling a 20 would be a total of 32 (20+2+10).
Basically it allows a somewhat equivalent power to the d20 on skills as it does for almost any other d20 roll. So, you could make the crazy good Knowledge: Arcana, OR maybe even fall from the easy Climb.
If the numbers are too steep, we could use it at +/- 5 instead, or just avoid it altogether.
That sounds fine to me. I wonder if I will continue my trend of bad skill checks that I have in my other PbP.
I like that implementation more than some of the houseruled "20 is auto-success 1 is auto-failure" rules I've seen. Means that your skills still factor into the success or failure of the check, rather than every roll having a 10% chance to ignore your character's abilities in favour of luck.
i agree with balsooma. Though I would argue starting it at -/+ 5 and upping it at a later point to -/+ 10. Just a thought, feel free to shoot it down.
I love the concept, though I also am not sure of the scale, +/- 10 seems like it basically makes auto success/fail, whereas scaling it back to 5 seems to leave the skill a bit more relevant. Then again, I'm also used to 4E number ranges, so maybe 10 would work better in PF. What does everyone else think?
Either way I am in favor of the rule regardless of the total.
+10 allow even a low level character to succeed on some mighty tough checks with a 20. If you roll a 1, you are likely to fail anyway in most circumstances. -10 only really comes into effect on small or tiny characters with a cloak of elvenkind resulting in a +25 stealth. The -10 would mean that the opponent would at least have a shot.
Personally, I would consider the +/-10 to be in the character's favor as it gives the ability to make otherwise impossible checks. DC30 when you only have a +9 on the Knowledge skill or something.
Just my 2 cents as a backup.
I've used a similar house rule before and found it works really well. You can still take 10 or 20 when you've got time in most cases to ensure that you don't fail an easy check when you're not in combat after all.
Also, Yay for the Peg Legs & Eye Patches rule!
Yes, Ciara, thanks for the reminder. I would like to use the Peg Legs & Eye Patches rules. Having a nice simple rule for longer lasting effects due to massive damage (instead of just insta-death which I never used), is a nice addition. I wouldn't mind a more extensive table for it, but for trying it out the small table works.
I might be able to dig out an old crit table if you want?
I might be able to dig out an old crit table if you want?
Yes, Ciara, thanks for the reminder. I would like to use the Peg Legs & Eye Patches rules. Having a nice simple rule for longer lasting effects due to massive damage (instead of just insta-death which I never used), is a nice addition. I wouldn't mind a more extensive table for it, but for trying it out the small table works.
Could do, though I think the advantage the Peg Legs & Eye Patches table has over a generic crit table is that all the injuries feel very piratical in nature. Whenever I think of pirates there's at least one of the crew with an eye patch or a peg leg and plenty of scars. :D
Whenever I think of pirates there's at least one of the crew with an eye patch or a peg leg and plenty of scars. :D
That's what I'm here to help end, with a bit of proper medical care, those scars, patches, and peg legs should be a thing of the past.
As an aside, scarring and other lasting effects from the various sword, claw, bite, burn, acid, and many other wounds that adventurers accrue over the course of mere DAYS of adventuring, after a few days rest or a couple of cure spells, or in the case of 4E a night’s sleep, everything is right as rain they are good to adventure and scoff at death another day. Where are the lasting effects? IRL a simple sprained ankle can lay up someone for weeks, a broken collar bone can be debilitating for just as long. A strained or torn ACL can put you down for MONTHS. Yet knocking on deaths door a few days rest puts the adventurer back to full killing potential.
I've heard the "It's magic," argument since magical healing could account for speed and totality of recovery, but I still find that a bit hard to chew. Anyone else have any thoughts on this matter??
Jensen, I thought of scaling it with level, but no matter when you scaled it, there would be an instance where you were so good, then all of a sudden you get worse for 5 levels until you even up that gap with ranks. Even if you did it at 10th (when most skill bonus feats have the 10 ranks for a +2 bump), it would still leave a trained person dropping 3 points worse.
Ciera, I've never been a big fan of crit/fumble tables. The best one I remember ever seeing was the old Dragon mag Good Hits and Bad Misses, and even then it still fell into the same trap of having too many ill-fitting results. I think the Peg Legs and Eye Patches one is just good enough to fit the flavor of the theme, without going too far with it. Also, by adding to massive damage instead of crits, it is most likely going to come up less often.
Kelly, it does break the verisimiltude to some extent, but is where it starts to get into the gamism side of things. I know there have been people with houserules for serious injuries, and I believe game systems (Rolemaster? I'm not sure), but it ends up being a drag. Not a lot of people want to RP the 3 weeks of bed rest to get over the back injury, or the week of a vile flu.
All that being said, it really ends up being a matter of flavor on whether the character wants scars or not. I'm fine with magical healing knitting bone, or patching gaping wounds, but for some reason I do still feel there should be some leftover scars. I'm not sure why.
Since the houserules have been discussed, and I think mostly agreed upon, we have:
Free Leadership at 9th
Peg Legs & Eye Patches
Crit/Fumble skills with +/- 10
Static Saving Throw defenses/Spell DC attack bonus
I intend to have the starting post up tonight, but before I do, I want to add a little insight.
This adventure's beginning 1/3 starts out with two things that the players need to bear in mind.
1st, The captain and some of his crew are in the positions they are in for a reason. If they couldn't handle a few unruly swabs, then they would have been overthrown a while ago. There's a reason the crew mostly does what they are told.
2nd, the time on ship is somewhat sandboxy, allowing for plenty of time for PC/NPC interactions. There will be days when nothing special happens, don't let that bore you, and use it like being given free time to accomplish personal goals when possible.
Checking in as understudy. The weekend took me off me usual posting schedule. Congratulations to the A team. Considering the strength of the field, I am honored to have made the B team.
The rules changes and additions all look good to me.
Best of luck to the current cast.
Aye aye cap'n - (can't wait to start!)
...and I believe game systems (Rolemaster? I'm not sure)...
Rolemaster was the first game system I ever played, on and off for a large number of years. I have done my time with systems where a string of horrible dice rolls can end with your character needing to lay up for a few months to recuperate from the broken bones they suffered. That is, unless you had a healer who - if they happened to have the right spells learned (Bone Law for bone damage, Nerve Law for nerve damage, etc), could take your injuries from you, as they themselves would heal slightly faster.
I quite like the unrealistic nature of D&D/Pathfinder: it lets you concentrate on the adventuring/pillaging/plot at hand. I can understand if you were to run a really gritty, survival-based system that long-lasting injuries would be interesting, but otherwise, they tend to be stumbling-blocks in plot progression which neither the players nor the DM want to deal with.
I'm onboard with all those houserules. Looking forward to getting underway.
Kelly, it does break the verisimilitude to some extent, but is where it starts to get into the gamism side of things. I know there have been people with houserules for serious injuries, and I believe game systems (Rolemaster? I'm not sure), but it ends up being a drag. Not a lot of people want to RP the 3 weeks of bed rest to get over the back injury, or the week of a vile flu.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating getting away from the current way D&D works, frankly its part of the allure of game, if every little battle required weeks of convalescing, and every encounter in a brothel required a string of saves vs the clap, the game would be that much worse for the ware. Its just one of those things that has always been in the back of my mind, especially anytime I make up a character with healing abilities.
All the house rules look great, I am very excited to get underway, sounds like I best get a good nights rest, but first I need to go checkout that noise in the alleyway, its sounds like someone might need some help.
well best of luck to the A team, and Kelly break a leg... ha ha.
Actually Jensen, I switched it above somewhere. You want Balsooma to break a leg.
Miraji is the one that wants Kelly to break a leg.
I mean... those are the one you are wishing the best of luck.... yeah, that's it... all the luck.
You want Balsooma to break a leg.
The only legs I'll break will - hopefully - be those of my enemies.
Game is started HERE
I will update the Houserules in the Campaign tab
Also, there is vital information on day-to-day operations aboard ship in the campaign tab. You should become at least familiar with them.
ah yes I forgot about that change, Balsooma, break many legs...
ah yes I forgot about that change, Balsooma, break many legs...
With humans, I'm limited to just the two. Perhaps if we find some spiders, or some centipedes, then my leg-breaking can ascend to new heights.
I meant to add this but forgot. The man with the whip is the one pictured on page 5 of the Player's guide.
That was an impressive set of rolls, Kelly. 3, 4, 2, 3? You really didn't want to climb that rigging.
Also, Aardvark, I just realised that Balsooma is lacking components for his spells. Bless requires a divine focus (my suggestions for this would either be his sword, or the tattoo on his chest, unless you have other ideas), and Shield of Faith needs a holy text. For this could I add a copy of Besmara's Code to his items? I assume it'd be with the rest of the gear that was taken from us.