We've got a Vesk Soldier in the party. Until I was doing some DPR calcs I didn't really think twice. His character, we trusted he knew how it worked.
Then things got complicated. He was using a Battleglove for 1.5×Str, cause that's how he thought it worked. Not the case, just heavy armor counts to modify his unarmed strikes.
This meant for the Armor Storm: Hammer Fist bonus, you have to be using unarmed. Which meant there is no Battleglove and therefore we can't put a fusion seal on his attack (see arguement I had prior for fusion seals on unarmed strikes since they have no gear level). There's another issue though now.
Hammer Fist says it can't benefit from other unarmed strike modifiers, such as Improved Unarmed Strike (a feat my Envoy Skyfire Centurion will be taking, so I can't give it to him and him benefit from Armor Storm). The Vesk Natural Weapons ability though raises questions.
So the main things to question:
Does Hammer Fist count you as armed to make Attacks of Opportunity?
If not, can a Hammer Fist Vesk benefit from the part of Natural Weapons that counts them is armed? (Or to word that differently, does Hammer Fist only disclude damage modifiers?)
If you made an Attack of Opportunity from Natural Weapons, should you use your unarmed damage or Hammer Fist damage?
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You may also want to refer the following link which may have (a little bit of) relevance:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v2me?Hammer-Fist-Weapon-Specialization#1
in it, the key SF designer says. "Besides, for any question, it should be clear you either treat it as an unarmed attack, or as a battleglove.
A soldier gets Weapon Specialization with it either way."
I can't find anywhere in Hammer Fist that says you're armed:
You treat any unarmed attack you make while wearing heavy or powered armor as being made with a battleglove (see page 187) with an item level equal to or lower than your soldier level, and you calculate damage for these attacks as if you had the melee striker gear boost (see page 112)... These unarmed attacks don’t benefit from other abilities that apply specifically to unarmed attacks (such as the Improved Unarmed Strike feat).
You're still making an unarmed attack, and from the rules:
Normal: You don’t threaten any squares with unarmed attacks, and you must have a hand free to make an unarmed attack.
Where are you getting armed as long as you have a hand free from?
Also, that link leads nowhere, but I get the idea.
If Hammer Fist cannot benefit from Natural Weapons counting as armed, then from what I understand of our party capabilities, things will look like this around level 6 with a Lend Expertise Improved Unarmed Envoy and the actual Melee Striker, as well as Natural Weapons and Hammer Fist. (Not including gear bonuses like personal upgrades)
Hammer Fist:
Unarmed Strike deals 1d4+(1.5×Str)+2+(Level) for a total of 1d4+14
AoO - No
Lend Experience (Improved Unarmed Strike):
Unarmed Strike deals 1d6+(1.5×Str)+(1.5×Level) for a total of 1d6+15
AoO - Yes
If Natural Weapons applies partially:
Unarmed Strike deals 1d4+(1.5×Str)+2+(Level) for a total of 1d4+14
AoO - Yes
If Natural Weapons specialization takes priority, but nothing else applies:
Unarmed Strike deals 1d4+(1.5×Str)+2+(1.5×Level) for a total of 1d4+17
AoO - No
If Natural Weapons fully applies:
Unarmed Strike deals 1d4+(1.5×Str)+2+(1.5×Level) for a total of 1d4+17
AoO - Yes
Now at level 8, Lend Expertise would increase damage die to 2d6, making it better by far, then level 10 Hammer Fist would become 2d8, 12 Lend goes to 3d6, 13 Hammer is 3d10. So there's back and forth depending on how much applies, however Attack of Opportunity is the big problem.
I didn't get thinking that much into it until Fugit brought it up. "Besides, for any question, it should be clear you either treat it as an unarmed attack, or as a battleglove. A soldier gets Weapon Specialization with it either way." Because yes, a soldier gets specialization either way, but the Vesk's unarmed is 1.5 specialization if it is unarmed.
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I can't find anywhere in Hammer Fist that says you're armed:
Owen also commented on that (or at least on the aspect that may be the most important):
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ujhx?Armor-Storm-Threaten
In that thread, he says: "Hammer Fist is intended to allow you to threaten."
It seams to me that a battle glove is:
- an unarmed strike (and can take advantage of feats/boons/etc that affect unarmed strikes)
- a melee weapon with which you are armed (but because Owen used "or" instead of "and", its not also an unarmed strike at the same time, pick whichever is better suited to each occasion. )
- never a natural weapon (a nuar's horn damage doesn't stack with its hammer fist damage, they are two distinct types of attacks)
Battlegloves aren't unarmed strikes. They don't benefit from unarmed strike modifiers. Everything else though you are correct.
And that really clarifies. Reading the full of everything (links did not work but copy-pasting the text did and I browsed).
Since the hammer fist counts as a battleglove it doesn't get the Natural Weapons specialization bonus, however it does threaten (something which should be added to the FAQ for the next book printing).
So the end result is the first two layouts I wrote.
Hammer Fist:
Unarmed Strike deals 1d4+(1.5×Str)+2+(Level) for a total of 1d4+14
Lend Experience (Improved Unarmed Strike):
Unarmed Strike deals 1d6+(1.5×Str)+(1.5×Level) for a total of 1d6+15
Which will lead to some cool synergy between my Centurion Envoy and our party's Soldier. Level ranges where I can give him my Improved Unarmed and jump his damage up in between the power spikes from Hammer Fist.
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Thank you. I should've embedded the text for the Armor Storm's"
and the Skyfire centurion's
as well as
Hammer fist may, at first glance appear to, on occasion, lag behind improved unarmed strike in raw damage, but it can also have a fusion seal on it that won't trigger with all unarmed strikes.
And, yeah, it looks like they changed how internal links work since last I linked to one. So like Isaac did, anybody else wanting to track the designers in these matters, just paste one of the following search parameters into the search field:
- Armor-Storm-Threaten
Hammer-Fist-Weapon-Specialization
Actually, a large part of the danage difference that allows Improved Unarmed to surpass Hammer Fist is just the Vesk Natural Weapons.
The +2 from having Hammer Fist and Melee Striker simultaneously will make it better in most cases.
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Hammer Fists can't have fusion seals.
"You treat any unarmed attack you make while wearing heavy or powered armor as being made with a battleglove."
"Treating" your fist as a battleglove is not the same as having a battleglove inventory item that can attach a seal to. The higher-end battlegloves require batteries, but you don't suddenly need to plug your wrist into an outlet to keep punching.
So when you aren't punching with it, it isn't a weapon that can hold a seal, and it takes 24 hours for a seal to take anyway...
My Armor Storm vesk will pick up Improved Unarmed Strike at 7th or 8th level (about the time it increases to 2d6) because that is about when the difference between Hammer Fist and Natural Weapons starts to lean towards Natural Weapons due to the 1.5x level modifier, though there may be a couple points where it swings back to Hammer Fist (perhaps at 13 when you get +1d6 with all armor-based weapons, including Hammer Fist).
The ability to make AoO attacks while your hands full is also a great reason to have Improved Unarmed Strike. You can have a longarm, heavy weapon, or sniper rifle and still smack someone as they walk past, or use an unwieldy weapon and still be able to AoO or Full Attack as needed.
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Hammer Fists can't have fusion seals.
"You treat any unarmed attack you make while wearing heavy or powered armor as being made with a battleglove."
I am aware of this, and did inform my Vesk partner when I found out (during an Operative arguement).
To the other point though, comparing Improved Unarmed to Hammer Fist. If your level 1 style was Armor Storm, your first gear boost is Melee Striker at 3, and you are a Vesk, it works out at follows.
Lvl 1-2 Hammer Fist (larger damage dice and weapon specialization hasn't kicked in)
Lvl 3 Hammer Fist (+1/2 level extra on specialization doesn't beat Melee Striker's conditional +2 for Hammer Fist specifically, and without Melee Striker Improved Unarmed will never compare)
Lvl 4-9 Improved Unarmed Strike (larger damage dice (which will go up twice before Hammer Fist raises once), and +1/2 level becomes comparable)
Lvl 10-11 Toss Up (Hammer Fist recieves a damage die boost at this point, resulting in higher max damage by 1 point, however Improved Unarmed is 3 points higher in min damage, so it's consistency over potential max, neither choice is wrong)
Lvl 12 Improved Unarmed Strike (larger damage dice)
Lvl 13-14 Hammer Fist (greater damage die, and Mobile Army kicks in)
Lvl 15 Toss Up (Improved Unarmed gets its damage boost, however it is 1 point of max damage behind Hammer Fist, the exchange being 6 points of min damage, so neither option is wrong)
Lvl 16 Improved Unarmed (max damage is tied and Improved Unarmed has the greater min damage)
Lvl 17-19 Hammer Fist (greater damage dice, placing the max damage so far ahead Improved Unarmed never really catches up)
Lvl 20 Just for comparison the two look, on a max Str build (+9 at lvl 20) as follows.
Hammer Fist: 5d10+1d6+13+2+20 Dmg = 41-91
Improved Unarmed Strike: 7d6+13+30 Dmg = 50-85
In conclusion, Improved Unarmed pretty consistently has better min damage, however after about level 10 (with a few exceptions) the Battleglove equivalent damage dice, with the extra from Mobile Army dominate what Improved Unarmed dishes out with its slow late game progression. However, both options are good.
If Armor Storm was your secondary fighting style, lack of Mobile Army would close the gap. Not taking Melee Striker would take 2 from Hammer Fist's side while draining 1/2 Str from the other, so higher than +4 and that would start making a bigger difference. Not being a Vesk you lose out on really one of the few things that make Improved Unarmed better in the 1.5×level...
Nuar are a great choice for Armor Storm, due to their Gore racial. If they take Blitz as their secondary style, at level 13 they can charge over difficult terrain and make a bull rush PLUS two Hammer Fist strikes, or make their natural weapons attack.
Nuar are a great choice for Armor Storm, due to their Gore racial. If they take Blitz as their secondary style, at level 13 they can charge over difficult terrain and make a bull rush PLUS two Hammer Fist strikes, or make their natural weapons attack.
Oh yeah, definitely. Same feature as the Vesk word for word so the above damage comparisons apply. Some levels Improved Unarmed is better, others Hammer Fist.
EDIT: The Formian and the Reptoid as well have the same benefit.
Nuar are a great choice for Armor Storm, due to their Gore racial. If they take Blitz as their secondary style, at level 13 they can charge over difficult terrain and make a bull rush PLUS two Hammer Fist strikes, or make their natural weapons attack.Oh yeah, definitely. Same feature as the Vesk word for word so the above damage comparisons apply. Some levels Improved Unarmed is better, others Hammer Fist.
EDIT: The Formian and the Reptoid as well have the same benefit.
Well, the Natural Weapons is the same, except that it specifies Piercing damage.
The Gore racial applies to charging without penalty, and upgrades if your class also gives you charge without penalty to being able to charge over difficult terrain.
So point Nuar, I guess. I was briefly tempted to make a Solarian Nuar with Stellar Rush just to capitalize on this.
It is a little silly that Nuar still need to have a hand free to use their unarmed attack without Improved Unarmed Strike, per RAW, but GMs are free to house rule that in their home games.
somewhat related question can unarmed strikes or Hammerfist powerfist benefit from Weapon fusions or fusion seals? ...bonus points what about a polyhand or Venom spur?
okay i saw up there someone said no fusion seal on hammerfist because there is no battleglove ..that's true but my thought is there is a suit of armor that is being used as effective weapon ...which is what makes something a weapon in a sense ...a suit of armor with a level ...one that will need to replaced as often as normal weapons making a player go threw all the normal hassle of transferring and replacing fusions
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The problem is armor does not fulfill the requirements for a weapon fusion, as they can only be placed on weapons. Armor plays by it's own rules being armor slots. Take note, there really isn't magic armor at all in Starfinder.
seems the answer in no on unarmed strike ...still wondering mostly about the venom spur and the polyhand ...which i guess is two questions ..enchanting its base form to make unarmed strikes with my 14level adamantium fist ...or turning it tool that is also a weapon like a sledge ...then slapping a fusion seal on it ....still does normal unarmed damage
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The venom spur is a point of concession. The polyhand is a tool, not a weapon. Thus not a target for a weapon fusion.
The venom spur is the one that i have trouble finding any real reason why i couldn't enchant it other than my dm said he would me use my unarmed damage with them and i don't wan't to try to get both...but not every one that gets one is a unarmed fighter..and that's more a house rule ....I'm wondering what the real rule is
I admit the polyhand thing felt like stretch but i like to be creative....here's another polyhand question ...any tool 8th level or lower what about tier 4 computer with all the fixings ..i'll have to have the rigger reload the programing every time i turn it into something else ...and i have no real use for it other than to use the hardened case to beat down doors i've failed to hack (i would need something more permanent to run equip and mostly i do the other sort of hacking anyway)
now that i think about it polyhand question further complicated by weapons with profession contractor and miner that say in there description that they are tools also
arc welders and sonic picks
sorry welders and seismic picks also a bunch of tool-weapons for profession dancer
actually picks are 2 hand scratch them ...others still work
but at this point i guess best left up to dm
You could reasonably run a game with a houserule to allow weapon fusions on armor, for hammerfist, without breaking the game. You would have to make rulings about how some fusions work, like called, in that application.
There is no "real" rule you could cite to be able to put fusions on these things, though. It's houserule and GM discretion or bust.
Powered armor would certainly count as a weapons for the purposes of fusions I would think.
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Powered armor would certainly count as a weapons for the purposes of fusions I would think.
Powered armor is not a weapon. It is armor. The damage it does replaces your unarmed attack, which is a basic weapon that doesn't have a level (and thus can't receive fusions). Weapons can be mounted on power armor, or even integrated into armor slots in light or heavy armor, and THOSE can have fusions, but the armor itself cannot.
Mind you, this is rules as written and for Society play. House rules and homebrew, well, go nuts.
Is there an official statement to that effect for Society play?
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Is there an official statement to that effect for Society play?
There doesn't need to be a specific rule for Society play. Weapons are weapons. Armor is armor. Weapon fusions go on weapons. Armor is not a weapon, therefore armor cannot have weapon fusions. Augmentations are not weapons, unless they integrate weapons from the weapon list. Therefore augmentations cannot have weapon fusions.
Not everything that does damage is a weapon, otherwise you would be able to slap a weapon fusion on a magic missile.
Is there an official statement to that effect for Society play?
No. But I would not expect many DMs to allow you to enchant your armor as a weapon.
With the Venom spur there is no language to indicate if it is a unarmed(or natural weapon) or a normal(integrated) weapon ...one would think its one or the other at least ...both have advantages....and there is no ruling on it that I've seen(if there is please link).......now as far as the polyhand i was leaning no until i realized they added weapons that are tools in the armory book (only one or two would actually work on the hand due to the polyhand's tool size limitation){welder 2d4 fire melee profession contractor)....whether or not you can turn the polyhand into that is more a matter of GM discretion(and not a stretch)...and at least in that form it would seem a worthy candidate for a fusion seal ....(also polyhand is obviously made to be used for more than toolkits it can make things up to level 8, and that take batteries to operate ....now a rifle is no ones version of a tool(other than in the MOST literal sense) but welders (and even sledges technical) literally and practically are...and much more so than many tech devices (if that's even the standard)....(LOL i worked for a concrete company for years ...sledge is not a tool just does not compute for me ...but that's more a me thing) ....as for the hammerfist armor enchant, its likely not by rules but honestly its not like its a powerfull weapon set or likely to be a powered armor users primary weapon....making more of a money sink than anything else (and those are good for the GM ... I guess maybe it would annoy some unarmed fighters ...but I'm sorta one currently, and i can have a ring of fangs so what do i care (our other vesk is armor storm though)
With the Venom spur there is no language to indicate if it is a unarmed(or natural weapon) or a normal(integrated) weapon ...one would think its one or the other at least
If it doesn't say either way, then it is neither. It gains no bonuses related to being a weapon. It also doesn't require proficiency.
now as far as the polyhand i was leaning no until i realized they added weapons that are tools in the armory book (only one or two would actually work on the hand due to the polyhand's tool size limitation){welder 2d4 fire melee profession contractor)....whether or not you can turn the polyhand into that is more a matter of GM discretion(and not a stretch)...and at least in that form it would seem a worthy candidate for a fusion seal ....
Keep in mind that a fusion seal must be in place for 24 hours before it works, and could fall off the moment the hand stopped being a weapon, depending on GM's interpretation.
okay as to the fusions seal limitations on a polyhand ...agreed .........if Venom spur does not require a weapon proficiency than it is a natural weapon and part of my body(see augmentations)which makes a viable candidate to use for a unarmed strike...quite possibly only at unarmed strike damage but if my unarmed bite does P/S (or P/S/B I'll have to look that up again) than why wouldn't a palm strike with a venom spur do B/P
okay as to the fusions seal limitations on a polyhand ...agreed .........if Venom spur does not require a weapon proficiency than it is a natural weapon and part of my body(see augmentations)which makes a viable candidate to use for a unarmed strike...quite possibly only at unarmed strike damage but if my unarmed bite does P/S (or P/S/B I'll have to look that up again) than why wouldn't a palm strike with a venom spur do B/P
Because the venom spur does not modify an unarmed attack, it is it's own thing.
Look its a "something".... a natural attack(which makes it a body part(which so does it being a augmentation)... or an integrated weapon....now when you make a unarmed strike with unusual body part(which there is gonna be plenty of in this game) it does the type of damage it logical would like S for a claw or P/S for a bite B for a tentacle,...and you can make unarmed strikes with whatever appendages you have you just can't use anything but a hand for combat maneuvers ....the only other thing i could think of that it could be is a touch attack and that seems 3rd most likely (although it never says more than "you can use to make an attack"...."it's nothing", is just unsatisfying...my brain won't allow it..... but if that is the ruling i would like to see it ...so again PLEASE LINK if anyone has it
the only thing i can think of that might keep it from being something i can unarmed strike with is it being a integrated weapon, if its not than it sort of defaults to being a body part like any augmentation
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It isn't an unarmed strike because it is it's own thing with its own rules, damage die, etc. Being a augmentation does not make it a body part. Bone Blades from Armory, are not unarmed strikes simply because they are an augmentation. They are their own weapon attack.
If you must classify the Venom Spur it would count as "Stinger". As it stands however, there is no ruling on how the Venom Spur interacts with anything because unlike the Bone Blade or other integrated weapons, "Stinger" is not a thing elsewhere in the book.
This means it does not have a level for determining whether it can have fusions or not, there are no rules stating if it makes you count as armed or not (as it takes a swift action to extend I would assume only count if "Stinger" is extended), and it is not classified as any type of weapon for Weapon Specialization or Weapon Focus. It is simply missing these pieces of information which makes it a unique case, being "nothing" as you put it, or its own thing.
Edit: And just to clarify, going up and down its entry, it is not classified as a natural attack either.
pg 208 first paragraph under augmentations "once installed they become part of you body" without language calling it a integrated weapon it defaults to that ...just like ultralight wings, just like prehensile tail, just like X legs with climbing claws.. I can use any of them to strike unarmed
pg 208 in core book that is
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pg 208 first paragraph under augmentations "once installed they become part of you body" without language calling it a integrated weapon it defaults to that ...just like ultralight wings, just like prehensile tail, just like X legs with climbing claws.. I can use any of them to strike unarmed
Okay. Ignoring that "part of your body" and "body part" are different things. A pacemaker can be part of someone's body, that does not make it a "body part" in the standard definition. I have two metal plates holding my mouth together, they've been in there long enough and not being removed that they are part of my body (probably deteriorating metal in my blood too after a decade), they are not a body part.
Ignoring that, the Stinger mentioned is /not/ an unarmed strike. This is important, for two reasons mechanically. The first, you cannot use it to make an unarmed strike. It cannot modify your unarmed strike. It gives you a Stinger and has its own attack rules. This is extra important for the second reason, because if is /was/ an unarmed attack it would be subject to feats and abilities that modify unarmed strikes.
Specific trumps general, and the spur is specifically a special type of attack, which unfortunately leaves it in a "nothing" limbo mentioned above in my last post.
No Venom spur doesn't give attack rules (which is the problem) it just says you make attack and the damage you do, nothing else we can't pretty safely assume they mean a melee attack but it doesn't even say if you add strength to damage,(bone spurs don't matter to this argument they clearly state what they are) but regardless the cybernetics and biotech that are body parts by the hint of being actual body parts (wings, x legs with climbing claws, extra arms, and palm spikes) are both part of the body and body parts and thus eligible for uses with unarmed strike ....and AGAIN IF THERE IS A OFFICIAL CLARIFICATION PLEASE LINK (or just tell me the name of the post) and to be honest this has degraded into semantics and I'm losing interest(until they change it)
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You implant a retractable stinger and venom sac into your hand. You can extend this stinger as a swift action but only while you aren’t holding anything in that hand. Attacks with your stinger deal 1d6 piercing damage and automatically inject venom into the target...
Sentences following this one detail the poison and are thus unrelated to the arguement at hand.
There is a reason I used the term "stinger", because that is what the attack is. To, again, reference the Bone Blade, which was pre-armory and in the Dead Suns AP (though I will still be referencing Armory as the more recent and thus more trustworthy source).
Bone blades are weapons built into undead arms that are then grafted onto their recipients. The blade can be retracted into the limb (making it impossible to notice without a careful inspection, scan, spell, or similar ability) or extended from the wrist for combat. Extending or retracting a bone blade is a swift action, and you can’t use the hand of the associated arm to hold anything or perform fine manipulation when the blade is extended. A bone blade cannot be disarmed, but it can be sundered. When you regain Hit Points (whether through first aid, magic, or natural healing), the blade regains the same number of Hit Points. If destroyed, a bone blade regrows in 24 hours.
Standard bone blades are one-handed simple melee weapons with the operative weapon special property. It is possible to have a more complex heavy bone blade installed, which changes the bone blade into a one-handed advanced melee weapon. These heavy bone blades are not operative weapons, but they deal more damage (see the Bone Blade table). There is no difference in cost between standard and heavy bone blades, but the decision between them must be made when the bone blade is installed and cannot be changed.
There is a lot of information here. Most notably, that bone blades use the same free-hand swift action mechanics as the stinger. Of import though is the bone blades are specifically referenced as one-handed simple or advanced weapons.
The venom spur was written around a year prior, and of special importance we have not had a reprinting of the Core Rulebook since last September as of this post. As a result the venom spur does not currently have classification and does require clarification because as currently without classification it is unclear whether things like Weapon Specialization apply to a venom spur.
However, one thing it is explicitly not is an unarmed strike, or unarmed strike modifier. Because we actually have an augment that does that and it reads as follows.
An enervating hand replaces a living hand with a withered extremity capable of draining the life essence of living creatures. As a standard action, you can make an unarmed strike with the enervating hand against a target’s EAC to deal the amount of damage listed for your necrograft’s model. You deal only the listed amount of damage (plus additional damage from the Weapon Specialization feat, if applicable), even if you have other abilities that increase your unarmed strike damage (such as natural weapons or the Improved Unarmed Strike feat).
And:
When you attack with this bioelectric organ implanted in the palm of your hand, your unarmed strike loses the archaic and nonlethal properties. You deal only the amount of damage listed for the augmentation’s model (plus additional damage from Weapon Specialization, if applicable), even if you have other abilities that increase your unarmed strike damage (such as natural weapons or the Improved Unarmed Strike feat).
Notice the very intentionally clear unarmed strike language with how the designers intend things to not work with unarmed strikes. And as additional evidence that this is still the case in the Core Rulebook, this whole thread was an original question on it from Hammer Fist, but here is more specific verbage from the only other hand-augmentation in the CRB.
The adamantine construction makes the polyhand extremely durable (see page 408 in Chapter 11 for more information about adamantine). This doesn’t change the amount of unarmed strike damage, no matter the form your polyhand is in.
If ot was intended to at all interact with unarmed strikes, the designers based on evidence would have stated so. The information on what type of weapon the venom spur is is missing, but it is explicitly not an unarmed strike, and cannot alter unarmed strikes in any way.
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Stingers are natural weapons.
Natural weapons and unarmed strikes are synonymous in Starfinder.
Ergo, the stinger is a natural weapon that can be used with unarmed strike rules.
This also clears up a lot of the issues as to what to classify it as and how it interacts with various rules of the game.
Seems simple enough to me.
Stingers are natural weapons.
Natural weapons and unarmed strikes are synonymous in Starfinder.
Ergo, the stinger is a natural weapon that can be used with unarmed strike rules.
Where can you find that the Stinger is a natural weapon in Starfinder? The only reference to natural weapons I have seen is a racial trait on 4 races, the Vesk, the Formians, the Nuar, and the Reptoids.
Starfinder has been deliberately restrictive to unarmed strikes, so if you can present that I would reconsider my stance.
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The interpretation that causes the least problems in a game, is likely the correct one. A stinger has always been classified as a natural weapon for as long as Paizo has existed. It has never once been classified as anything else in any game or product produced by Paizo.
Since you made the initial claim that it is not a natural weapon, I believe that the burden of proof falls to you. You've made some effort in this regard already with the polyhand quote, but I don't believe that proves much of anything, since the stinger--having logically and conceptually always been a natural weapon as far as Paizo's works are concerned--works with the unarmed strike rules just like any other natural weapon mentioned in Starfinder (except as explicitly mentioned in its text).
If that isn't enough to convince you, or at least see it as a possible alternative, then I'm afraid there is not much more I can do for you.
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It is not a natural weapon in the Pathfinder 1 sense. Natural weapon rules as a general are non-present in Starfinder, instead replaced with racial traits modifying unarmed strikes for the races that would have them. Likely for simplification of design (it was a mess in PF1).
Stingers in Starfinder are not "Natural Weapons", the racial feature in Starfinder synonymous with unarmed strikes. I use stinger as the term though in reality I am of course talking the Venom Spur, which is described as a stinger, or if we reduce it to what it is mechanically: "A one-handed weapon which requires a free hand to draw with a swift action, and deals 1d6 piercing damage. Creatures struck with this weapon must make a fortitude save or take 2d6 poison damage each round until they succeed at this save."
The venom spur, is also important. It is the only augment in the core rulebook that is a weapon. With that in mind, there is nothing in its sourcebook that it can be 1 to 1 compared against, and since said book is the first you cannot look at precedent since we did not receive any copy of the book in its playtest phase. This makes it difficult to point out obvious mistakes, however we can look forward to again find which information is missing based on future releases. Again I have shown the similarity to the Bone Blade in writing in Armory (though I lack the appropriate AP book to reference it in the Dead Suns AP to see if it was always written the way it is).
So I forsee them, when they have decided to have gathered all of the things which need changing in the CRB and reorganize the page layouts (since so much in the FAQs needs to be added, many page numbers will change and the layout will change a lot as a result) for the next printing, adding in the weapon information for the Venom Spur in. One-handed, probably simple Operative like the small bone blade which will directly answer pretty much all of the questions around it. Maybe with the Inject critical effect to increase the DC by 2 on a crit.
To put another thing into perspective, as mentioned the Starfinder team has been very careful with unarmed strikes not getting out of hand, to the point they aren't Operative (Finesse) like they have been in the past just to prevent Operative quad attack + Vesk Natural Weapons destroying the damage curve with 4 1.5× specialization attacks. If the venom spur violates the existing rules and is an unarmed strike somehow, it becomes a non-option. It makes every unarmed fighter better as it bypasses the nonlethal archaic drawback for unarmed strikes, and it would stack with both Natural Weapons and Improved Unarmed Strike, essentially adding for any unarmed fighter a 2d6 poison to their attacks. As well since the 2d6 would also be debatable with whether it is a damage modifier or not as a poison save, it would also apply with either of the two actual unarmed strike modifiers I quoted above.
Long story short: The basic layout of the spur resembles an incomplete bone blade much more than any unarmed modifier, and if it was an unarmed modifier it would shatter the balance that the Starfinder team has set out to achieve when it comes to unarmed strikes.
...and if it was an unarmed modifier it would shatter the balance that the Starfinder team has set out to achieve when it comes to unarmed strikes.
How so?
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...and if it was an unarmed modifier it would shatter the balance that the Starfinder team has set out to achieve when it comes to unarmed strikes.How so?
As stated above, the Starfinder team has been very deliberate in choices. If it were a modifier it would now stack with both Natural Weapons, AND Improved Unarmed Strike, or for any non the 4 Natural Weapons races, bypass all of the downsides of unarmed strikes.
You'd be looking at adding free poison to Hammer Fist for any Soldier on top of the new unarmed specific Soldier abilities.
For anyone with Natural Weapons, it becomes an [unarmed damage here since it can be modified]+Str+(1.5×Level) with a 2d6 per round poison.
For everyone else, with Improved Unarmed it bypasses the nonlethal and archaic qualities becomes a non-option as a weapon that scales at the same rate as the Dueling Sword (until extreme levels) but with free poison.
If it were an unarmed option, even with just CRB material they would have added the line from Hammer Fist "These unarmed attacks don’t benefit from other abilities that apply specifically to unarmed attacks (such as the Improved Unarmed Strike feat)."