Rapid Response and Power Armor


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Does the +10 land speed from the soldier's Rapid Response also increase the land speed of the soldier in powered armor, or just the soldier's un-powered land speed?

Scarab Sages Starfinder Design Lead

Powered armor has it's own speed, like a vehicle, which is separate from the character's speed.


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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Powered armor has it's own speed, like a vehicle, which is separate from the character's speed.

This leads to a couple of additional questions, if it is a separate movement speed like a vehicle. I think it makes it clear you can't use flight if you happen to be a Dragonkin while in Jarlslayer armor, for example.

Does the haste spell affect power armor speeds? My guess is yes, but you could also read the rules as haste affecting the character's movement modes and not the armor's.

Given it has its own separate movement mode, does that mean casting flight on character wearing powered armor like a Jarlslayer mean they still cannot fly, for the same reason a Dragonkin can't fly in it?

Can you use spell effects/supernatural abilities like Defy Gravity with powered armor. In the case of Defy Gravity, its not granting a fly speed, but letting you use your current movement speed to fly. Could a Solarian wearing a Jarlslayer power armor use a move action to activate Defy Gravity and fly their current speed (i.e. 20 feet from the Jarlslayer)?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, it definitely seems like effects that target the character for a movement change would have this same problem in powered armor.


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I’m not convinced that “Power armor has it’s own speed, like a vehicle” means that you treat the power armor like a vehicle. I mean, there’s no half measures, so you’d have to use the vehicle rules any time you wanted to walk around.

I would think that any mode of movement available to you, that is not shared with the armor, can be used as normal.

Following that, any mode of movement that is shared with the armor, uses the armor’s relevant speeds. From that, I would say that temporary enhancements, like haste, that take effect while the character is wearing the armor, would boost the armor’s move. Permanent enhancements to the character, like speed suspensions, would not work while wearing power armor.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Pantshandshake wrote:

I’m not convinced that “Power armor has it’s own speed, like a vehicle” means that you treat the power armor like a vehicle. I mean, there’s no half measures, so you’d have to use the vehicle rules any time you wanted to walk around.

I agree you don't use the vehicle rules for your movement in power armor, but if you are treating the character's move speed and the armor's move speed as distinct entities, then any change to the character's move speed (temporary or permanent) wouldn't affect the move speed of the armor (just like it wouldn't affect the move speed of a vehicle if the driver is targeted). You would need a spell or effect that targeted the speed of the armor to increase its speed.

Consider this case: You get haste cast while you are out of armor by a 10th level caster, so your land speed is now 60 feet. You take a round to climb into powered armor. You now have 9 rounds where your move speed is 60 feet ... but the armor's speed ignores your speed, so it can still move only at its max speed.

Given the above ruling, I can't figure out a solid rationale why the spell would work any differently just because it happens to be cast when you're in the armor. The armor is limited to the speed it can move, and no amount of fast moving by the individual in it can make it go faster than that.


That's fair.

What about gaining fly/climb/swim speeds, etc, in a suit of PA without a speed in those types of movement?

*Edit*

Something I thought of after posting. If that take on nothing modifying the PA's move speed is correct, did we just find a way to ignore the penalties for things like forced march? If the armor is doing my walking for me, I shouldn't be tired.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd be inclined against this. 8+ hours of moving my legs, even if the armor is doing the bulk of the muscle work, would still be pretty exhausting.

I'm also thinking that movement penalties due to encumberence (based on the powered armor's Strength) would apply, because it is the powered armor that is encumbered, not just the person in the armor.


What about the larger sized suits, where your character isn’t wearing the armor so much as sitting in a cockpit?

As far as encumbrance goes, I’d be ok with it, provided the armor’s bulk was discounted from the total carrying ability. And as long as nobody tries to figure out the bulk of the pilot.

It seems like we’re getting into a variation of the ‘do I take penalties for wielding medium sized weapons while piloting a large size PA’ thing.

Really, when we try to take rules that apply to characters and extend them to non-characters, things get weird.


Pantshandshake wrote:

I would think that any mode of movement available to you, that is not shared with the armor, can be used as normal.

Pantshandshake wrote:
What about gaining fly/climb/swim speeds, etc, in a suit of PA without a speed in those types of movement?

The issue I have with using your own movement if the armor doesn't have that mode, is it leads to weird situations where a Sarcesian in space flies faster in a Jarlslayer than they do in a Flight frame. It turns what is supposed to be an advantage (a flight speed) into a disadvantage (a slower maximum flight speed). Similarly for other characters with unusual movement modes.

By the rules, you can still use skills to climb or swim based on your current speed (i.e. 20 feet in a Jarlslayer climbs or swims at 10 feet per the athletic skill rules).

Similarly, depending on the wording of a spell effect, ability or augmentation, would determine if it applies to the armor or not.

Flight is clearly cast on a creature and gives it a fly speed. You can use that move speed with other actions (charge, move, spring attack, etc). While the spell is running, I don't see a difference between this flight speed and say, a Dragonkin's innate flight speed.

Defy Gravity is different, in that it doesn't give you a fly speed, but is a self contained supernatural power that costs a move action and that lets you "fly your speed" where speed is presumably one of your non-flying move speeds. In this case, your land speed would be replaced by say, the Jarlslayer's 20 foot land speed, and you have the option of flying 20 feet (or 30 if graviton attuned, or 50 feet if graviton attuned and have the Ultimate Graviton revelation).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I agree about Defy Gravity. I think you could restrict the usefulness of Haste and such when you're in powered armor, but still justify that Defy Gravity would apply to the powered armor you're wearing.

Of course, if I were running the game, I think I'd rule that Defy Gravity would also apply when you're driving a single-person vehicle, like an Enercycle, and give you the chance to make it fly for brief periods.

Wayfinders

Similarly haste improves modes of movement, if your PA is a mode of Movement it could work, couldn't it?

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