Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
I'm currently playing in a campaign using Automatic Bonus Progression. The GM admittedly has been having difficulty balancing encounters with the vast difference in AC between the party members. While the Cleric (that's me) and the Wizard have AC in the low 20s, the Ivestigator and I wanna say Psychic Warrior have high 30s and lows 40s of AC. I'm looking for feats and spells that could help bolster the AC game so enemies geared to the hits the tanks with 50/50 odds don't have a 19 outta 20 chance to hit the wizard and myself.
3.5 material is allowed.
Official Pathfinder is allowed.
and 3rd party is allowed after critique.
(also Ideas that dont' include AC but provide means to help mitigate how often we get thrashed are welcome as well.)
Instead of focusing on AC (which for some classes can be really difficult to max out), look at ways to gain miss chances. I dunno what level you're at, so I will have a hard time suggesting specific magic items.
However, Mirror Image should be a defensive mainstay for the wizard if he/she is regularly getting targeted with to-hit rolls. Spells like Blur, Displacement, Invisibility, etc. all give a miss chance. Coupling Mirror Image with Displacement makes someone really difficult to hit.
The Snake Style Feat coupled with a maxed out Sense Motive skill can be effective at negating one attack per turn.
Some spells grant DR like Stoneskin. Other spells force an enemy to make a saving throw if they wish to attack you, such as Sanctuary (though, you cannot attack and maintain the benefit of the spell; it's good if you're casting buff spells or summoning).
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
We kinda have a gentlemans agreement that I won't use sanctuary, at least not to the same degree I've proven I can use it. we're level 11 btw
You either play the AC game or bypass the AC game. Wizards generally don't play it. You stay away from enemies (flight or just be in the back) have good initiative to go first in fights to stay safe, and then if you want/need more protection you do mirror image or the likes.
Clerics play the AC game like any other. armor, shield, natural, deflection either from spells or items.
Sanctuary isn't usually considered an all powerful spell, you should perhaps revisit that gentleman's agreement.
I'm wondering why the difference is great between your cleric and the others. You should all have the same deflection, armor and natural armor, so the only difference should be dex and possibly a sheild bonus, I don't see how that can add up to a 20 point swing. Possibly you are going 2-handed reach cleric, but that strategy should lower the number of attacks against you (and is only a 2-point difference anyway).
All that being said, it is typical that by about your level hitting a wizard (without mirror image or blur) is typically a guarantee for the bad guys so that is within expectations of the game.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
I used heighten spell, spell perfection, and vows of peace and pacifism, result was a healer that couldn't be touched.
Ectolord wrote: I used heighten spell, spell perfection, and vows of peace and pacifism, result was a healer that couldn't be touched. That's distinct from casting Sanctuary, and even then, that character has so many limitations that it shouldn't be a problem.
Ectolord wrote: I used heighten spell, spell perfection, and vows of peace and pacifism, result was a healer that couldn't be touched. As a DM, in that situation, I'd just attack a different party member. Partly because I'm fine with PCs being able to do what they want to do, but also partly because it doesn't even seem very strong ... I mean, if you never do anything with your actions but heal, what motive do the enemies have to attack you? They can take you out of the fight just as easily attacking someone else.
In my case with my longest time spent (both in game and in real life) on a wizard his AC didn't climb much above 20-ish until he hit very high levels (17+). He avoided melee and used miss chances as his main protections. That and his Concentration (skill based 3.5 character) was through the roof. If you did get in close (or threatened to) you tended to eat some of his most potent spells pronto, his Concentration helping to ensure they were cast successfully.
As for Sanctuary I've only really used or seen it used "offensively" once. The room we had to enter was set up to allow a large number fighter types to use reach weapons to decimate anyone trying to enter with opportunity attacks. My cleric cast Sanctuary then proceeded to move across the room towards the far door/exit drawing a whole mess of AoO's. The few who made the Will saves were then easily handled by her AC etc. and allowed the rest of the party to move in and attack. Otherwise I'd revisit the Sanctuary spell to see if you are using it correctly or have a house rule in place making it unusually and perhaps more effective than intended. I would second Mr Justus that Sanctuary is unlikely to be considered by most to be overly powerful and problematical enough to warrant such a gentleman's agreement.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Asmodeus' Advocate wrote: Ectolord wrote: I used heighten spell, spell perfection, and vows of peace and pacifism, result was a healer that couldn't be touched. As a DM, in that situation, I'd just attack a different party member. Partly because I'm fine with PCs being able to do what they want to do, but also partly because it doesn't even seem very strong ... I mean, if you never do anything with your actions but heal, what motive do the enemies have to attack you? They can take you out of the fight just as easily attacking someone else. Oh I was the GM in the incident with sanctuary and I wanted them to keep their mitts off the healer for most the fight. (was running an evil game and foolishly let them take templates, Lich Werewolf etc. combat got really outta hand it's been a mess)
And I spend most if not all my spell slots on healing the HP tank (the psychic Warrior using Share pain) because the gm targets both the cleric and wizard because they are A. Easy to hit, and B. Half the damage they take bleeds onto the Psychic Warrior.
My lv8 wizard has 49 hp and 12 AC, he'd be hit by anything that tries and he doesn't have any defensive spells up like mirror image. But he's made it this far.
If you can count on your enemies not making a will save against a spell, Sanctuary is far from the most powerful choice out there. How about a hold person instead, and then you won't have to do so much healing.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Dave Justus wrote: If you can count on your enemies not making a will save against a spell, Sanctuary is far from the most powerful choice out there. How about a hold person instead, and then you won't have to do so much healing.
All the aforementioned stuff made sanctuary have a save DC equivalent to a 9th level spell with greater focus and perfection. with an extra like +8 roped in. most the of the party had to nat 20 or, heaven forbid use area of effect spells. (I had creamed the caster capable of this with the paladin that was teamed up with this healer.) They managed to dominate the healer's wizard companion, and used him to drop the sanctuary with dispel. but only after the paladin was dealt with.
Either way, the problem is that the two tank characters, one is a minmaxer. they try to act like they aren't, but they are. and because of this the GM feels they have to beef up EVERY encounter to contend with them, and it leaves cleric and wizard easily creamed if they even try to participate.
Mirror image, my buddy.
Also the cleric should consider Divine Metamagic Persist and buying a fistful of nightsticks. That would let him persist Shield of Faith and Ironskin. If he also picks up a shield, that's plenty.
It would also allow him to persist other stuff, but that's cheesy so don't.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Groundhog wrote: Mirror image, my buddy.
Also the cleric should consider Divine Metamagic Persist and buying a fistful of nightsticks. That would let him persist Shield of Faith and Ironskin. If he also picks up a shield, that's plenty.
It would also allow him to persist other stuff, but that's cheesy so don't.
Nightsticks? and I am planning on picking up a buckler, God's weapon is a spear so... two handed :P
(For point of Reference, I am palying a LG Cleric of Tsukiyo, the tian God of the moon, using the Darkness and Madness Domains.)
If your wizard is so far in the thick of things that he is getting attacked as much as your warriors, you done messed up. He doesn't need better AC, the group needs better field tactics. Your 30-40 AC characters should be serving as meat shields to your lower ac and hp characters so they can get their spells off without getting attacked to begin with. If they are running off playing hero and ignoring their team mates who are getting creamed because they aren't doing their job, your wizard is going to get killed no matter how many defensive spells and magical doodads you give him.
Groundhog wrote: Mirror image, my buddy.
Also the cleric should consider Divine Metamagic Persist and buying a fistful of nightsticks. That would let him persist Shield of Faith and Ironskin. If he also picks up a shield, that's plenty.
It would also allow him to persist other stuff, but that's cheesy so don't.
Wrong edition, friend.
Trying to balance AC is a mistake, IMHO.
All D20 games are built on the fact classes have vastly different stats, that no one is well defended against everything... so the players have to think about placement, about protecting the others, cooperation being not only a key to victory, but also to simple survival.
So not only you will struggle to achieve any relevant AC level, but if you succeed, you will kill a part of what make Pathfinder fights interesting.
If you feel your casters have too low AC it's normal. If you feel it's a true problem, it's because someone is not doing his job properly in the party.
Either the frontliner(s) forgot to keep (them-)himselves between foes and the party casters.... or the caster stupidly exposed himself.
POSITIONNING is one of the most important key of battle in Pathfinder.
A simple case of difference can wipe your party.
But if everyone think about their position, then, caster's AC is rarely an issue... well, perhaps in an ambush, but ambush tend to feature weaker monster to compensate the fact they strike at your weakness directly. So it's balanced.
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