Electrostatic field armor upgrade and unarmed strike


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

ELECTROSTATIC FIELD
This field over your armor grants you electricity resistance, and any creature that touches you or deals damage to you with a melee weapon takes electricity damage. The resistance granted and damage dealt depend on this upgrade’s type, as noted below.

So if you have one of these and hit people with an unarmed strike, do the take the electrical damage? I understand there is a difference between touching and being touched sometimes, but what about in this case? I could see this being very nice as a way to make unarmed strikes more appealing...


I would think so, honestly. They would still be "touching you" whether willing or not.


I think Tec's logic is sound, but from a balance perspective I'd be hesitant to put a potentially rather large DPS bonus on unarmed strikes. Let's see how it maths out?

Math:
Mk 3 is available on level 12, so we'll use a level 12 character.

Ulla the Unarmed Striker.
She has IUS, so she's hitting for 3D6 damage (10.5). MK III Electrostatic Field adds another 3D6 damage, so we're looking at 21 per swing. Weapon Specialization adds 18 damage*, so we're looking at 39 damage total.

*Note that I assume Ulla is using a race that provides a natural attack, such as vesk, Formian, Nuar Reptoid etc. This won't always be the case, but I try to use the "best-case scenario" so I can show the full potential. If Ulla were to procure a Ring of Fangs the gap would increase further, but I don't have access to the ring's statblock so I'll ignore it for the time being.

Ulla has spent one feat (for proficiency) and 35 000 credits on the armor upgrade.

There isn't a level 12 analog advanced melee weapon, so we'll use level 11 and level 13 weapons instead. Meet Larry & Garry:

Larry the Ultrathin-Longsword swinger.
His sword hits for 4D8 damage (18) baseline. His weapon specialization adds 12 damage, so we're looking at 30 damage total.

Larry (potentially) spent one feat (Advanced Melee Proficiency) and 26 300 credits on his sword.

Garry the Grindblade... Grinder? I got nothing.
His sword hits for 4D10 damage (22) baseline. His weapon specialization adds 12 damage, so we're looking at 34 damage total.

Garry (potentially) spent one feat (Advanced Melee Proficiency) and 45 700 credits on his sword.

Based on this math, I think that this armor upgrade would be imbalanced if it also adds the damage to unarmed strikes. However, it would be balanced if Ulla was playing a race without natural attacks or not using the Ring of Fangs. You could allow it, but with the caveat that the armor upgrades doesn't interact with those effects.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Followup question. What about someone healing them. I assume they aren't shocked via touching for a mystic heal?


Kudaku wrote:

I think Tec's logic is sound, but from a balance perspective I'd be hesitant to put a potentially rather large DPS bonus on unarmed strikes. Let's see how it maths out?

** spoiler omitted **

Based on this math, I think that this armor upgrade would be imbalanced if it also adds the damage to unarmed strikes. However, it would be balanced if Ulla was playing a race without natural attacks or not using the Ring of Fangs. You could allow it, but with the caveat that the armor upgrades doesn't interact with those effects.

I don't think you accounted for Unarmed Strikes having Archaic.


He did he specifically mentioned the assumption about choosing a playable race with natural weapons which makes them not archaic.

You’re worse at reading than I am ;)


Robert Gooding wrote:

He did he specifically mentioned the assumption about choosing a playable race with natural weapons which makes them not archaic.

You’re worse at reading than I am ;)

No, he didn't - he listed that for Weapon Specialization - but you are right that the races he lists also lose Archaic on their natural weapons (without gaining Analog, which only leads to more questions). Good catch.

This does imply a related question: how much should the answer rely on the creature's anatomy? Let's take the Nuar, which have the stupidest natural weapons of the list we're currently working with:

1) Their natural weapons deal Piercing damage, suggesting that they have to be the creature's horns - it hasn't got anything else capable of that, not even its teeth.
2) But they don't get the ability to deal unarmed strikes without using their hands without taking IUS. What the hell?

My main point is that it makes no sense in the setting for only Nuar to be capable of having horns - basically, all you should need to do is ask your armorsmith for a Nuar-model helmet, and hey presto, your helmet should have horns exactly as sharp as a Nuar's. If Nuar can apply their horns with their helmets on, it must mean their helmets are sporting weapons as deadly as their horns. The other option is that they can't, and the helmet exposes their horns to attack, which has serious implications for combat in hostile environments.

Once we rule on that, we extend the same question to creatures relying on claws (Formians and Reptoids). Are the armor's gauntlets modified to be claw shaped - which should mean anyone can have them - or are they exposing the underlying natural weapon?

At least Vesk are just better at punching, so these questions don't arise, which simultaneously means we need to pay attention on the ruling. If armors expose natural weapons, they shouldn't need to for Vesk, making them better in hostile environments, and if they don't, Vesk natural weapons are the only ones where it's implausible to trivially build them directly into the suit.


I doubt it was intended to be used as a damage bonus on unarmed strikes.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

It was probably not intended to boost unarmed strikes. Conceptually, it would make sense for it to boost unarmed strikes. Mechanically, it doesn't.

The Electrostatic Field runs into a worse version of the same problem the Ring of Fangs has if you allow this. Ring of Fangs and Improved Unarmed Strike together outperform basically everything until around level 17, with the drawback being that it takes a magic item slot and can't use fusions. IUS with natural weapons and the electrostatic field outperform the RoF by a couple points, and while the combination has a higher up-front cost, you'd arguably want the field anyway for the energy resistance. It also takes an upgrade slot rather than a magic item slot.

Allowing electrostatic field to boost unarmed attacks means it would also apply to the Ring of Fangs, at which the combination has untouchable damage for most of the game and does not suffer nearly so dramatic a drop-off even at level 20.

Applying the electrostatic field damage to unarmed strikes would be sound conceptually, but not at all mechanically. Which is a pity, because I'd like to see something that makes unarmed strikes competitive as a primary damage source without being outright better.


baggageboy wrote:

ELECTROSTATIC FIELD

This field over your armor grants you electricity resistance, and any creature that touches you or deals damage to you with a melee weapon takes electricity damage. The resistance granted and damage dealt depend on this upgrade’s type, as noted below.

So if you have one of these and hit people with an unarmed strike, do the take the electrical damage? I understand there is a difference between touching and being touched sometimes, but what about in this case? I could see this being very nice as a way to make unarmed strikes more appealing...

As written, no. Any creature that touches you, not any creature you touch. Granted, common sense suggests that in order for them to touch you, you must be touching them, but that's not a rule mechanic, just something infered by common sense (which has no place in an RPG game system...).

It's like if you are kindly holding someone's hand, and you then decide to cast an offensive melee touch spell on them, you still have to roll to hit. Sure, you are already touching them, but that's not how the game works.

On a similar note, if touching was a two way street in Starfinder, you could cast melee touch and auto hit when they hit you with a melee touch (because you are both touching...).

xmiyux wrote:
Followup question. What about someone healing them. I assume they aren't shocked via touching for a mystic heal?

As written, if someone touches you for any reason (including to deliever a harmless spell), they take damage. If you are touching them them, they shouldn't take any damage.


I am going to use this and when the damage doesn't carry shout, "I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU, BECAUSE YOU AREN'T TOUCHING ME!"

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

That was what I was afraid on the healing thing. Honestly I will probably have to handwave that. Making it so healers take damage to try to heal the tank is goofy.

Then again, I am also firmly against needle rifles with health syringes in them dealing damage too. Dang it, we need Ana from Overwatch. :lol:


Been thinking about the healing and needle rifles.

A worthy note is that any Weapon with the "Venomous" fusion can, once per day, act as if it has the Injection Property. Level 2 fusion. Means your choices for delivery aren't just Needle weapons.

Community / Forums / Starfinder / Rules Questions / Electrostatic field armor upgrade and unarmed strike All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions