I'm with you in the camp that Bard's Lore Master ability means in combat, not all the time. But to be fair, I can see how a GM would think the opposite.
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Ran into the same exact thing at my FLGS. The GM inferred the exact same thing. In my case, I was Taking 10 untrained and a 10 wasn't good enough to know anything anyway, so I just let it go. I tried to talk with the GM during the break and he simply repeated the rule about the bard thing, but the conversation was amicable and he at least gave me the illusion that he considered that he might be wrong. I don't know if the GM every realized the correct rule (I think he did), but it was ultimately irrelevant for our scenario.I feel your pain.
Knowledge cannot be used untrained for anything that requires greater than a DC 10. So, if the DC was greater than 10, taking 10 wouldn't have helped an untrained character (maybe that's what you're saying happened and why it was irrelevant for your scenario.)
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"Taking 10: When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn't help."
It never says that you can't take 10 on a skill outside of combat in certain skills. It says when you are not in danger you can take 10. There is no exceptions listed...only that while in combat you can't take 10.
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I think the big common mistake most GM's (including myself once upon a time) make is the following:
When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10.
We assumed that if the task at hand was a dangerous task (like failure could drop you 1,000 feet into a crevasse) that constituted immediate danger or being distracted.
However, It is only if you are in immediate danger or distracted by something other than the task at hand.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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It never says that you can't take 10 on a skill outside of combat in certain skills. It says when you are not in danger you can take 10. There is no exceptions listed...only that while in combat you can't take 10.
It wouldn't list the exceptions there. For example, it doesn't list UMD.
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It wouldn't list the exceptions there. For example, it doesn't list UMD.
It never says that you can't take 10 on a skill outside of combat in certain skills. It says when you are not in danger you can take 10. There is no exceptions listed...only that while in combat you can't take 10.
If you can't Take 10 on a specific skill, it would be listed under that specific skill.
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It wouldn't list the exceptions there. For example, it doesn't list UMD.
It never says that you can't take 10 on a skill outside of combat in certain skills. It says when you are not in danger you can take 10. There is no exceptions listed...only that while in combat you can't take 10.the skill exceptions for individual type of skills would most likely be listed in each of the individual skills, like it is for UMD and for Swim in rough water. ... But sometimes things can be listed in obscure places in the many rule books we use.
Another one that I think is being done wrong in many cases is the use of Spellcraft with detect magic to determine the properties of a magic item. Detect magic requires concentration, so it would count as "distracted" - they are trying to do two things at once... and thus can't Take 10 on them. (IMHO)
I'd say that because Detect Magic and spellcraft go hand in hand the way they do, the concentration for DM wouldn't be a distraction to spellcraft. I'd allow the take 10 on that, though I've never actually seen people try it.
I'd say that because Detect Magic and spellcraft go hand in hand the way they do, the concentration for DM wouldn't be a distraction to spellcraft. I'd allow the take 10 on that, though I've never actually seen people try it.It wouldn't list the exceptions there. For example, it doesn't list UMD.
It never says that you can't take 10 on a skill outside of combat in certain skills. It says when you are not in danger you can take 10. There is no exceptions listed...only that while in combat you can't take 10.the skill exceptions for individual type of skills would most likely be listed in each of the individual skills, like it is for UMD and for Swim in rough water. ... But sometimes things can be listed in obscure places in the many rule books we use.
Another one that I think is being done wrong in many cases is the use of Spellcraft with detect magic to determine the properties of a magic item. Detect magic requires concentration, so it would count as "distracted" - they are trying to do two things at once... and thus can't Take 10 on them. (IMHO)
This is one that got codified more or less, during the Mythic playtest by Jason Bulmahn. It went more along with what Nosig was saying about the concentration being distracting.
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It wouldn't list the exceptions there. For example, it doesn't list UMD.
It never says that you can't take 10 on a skill outside of combat in certain skills. It says when you are not in danger you can take 10. There is no exceptions listed...only that while in combat you can't take 10.
From UMD "Special: You cannot take 10 with this skill. You can't aid another on Use Magic Device checks. Only the user of the item may attempt such a check."
It lists, under the skill, any special rules that differentiate that skill from normal usage. UMD lists an exception. Knowledge doesn't. You can't take 10 with UMD due to the exception. Knowledge you can take 10, no exception was listed.
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This is one that got codified more or less, during the Mythic playtest by Jason Bulmahn. It went more along with what Nosig was saying about the concentration being distracting.
Yep this is the rule with using detect magic and spellcraft, although I HATE it with a passion for slowing the game down with more bookkeeping.
You should be able to take 10 on knowledge skills outside of combat, assuming you are not in danger or distracted.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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This is one that got codified more or less, during the Mythic playtest by Jason Bulmahn. It went more along with what Nosig was saying about the concentration being distracting.
I really dislike this ruling. It slows down gameplay to a crawl when identifying magic items and doesn't improve the game in any way that I can discern.