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Class features, Ever get jeallous of the other party members?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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The only time Clerics have had some life in them was 3.5..... and Paizo stomped that out double quick.

The word on the ITK grapevine is that Paizo has no intent on doing anything of significance with the class.

I'm always suprised that people are surprised by this..... look at the plethora of archetypes and options over the last 5 years that many classes have had.... Cleric has been made functionally redundant!

The vast majority of the cleric stuff released is just that.... stuff.

Look at Divine Anthology... classic example.... was there anything significant in there?... Noooo

So when a book called 'Divine Anthology' cant produce anything, you know the writing is on the wall!

Cleric = cob web collector


JTDV wrote:

Did someone say, "Cleric?" WorldsMostInterestingConfirmation

LOL. I'm in it for the role.

Clerics have never been memorable. Let me take you back...back in time...no, much further...yes to the three original classes. See the Rogue? You can't. It's not that she's hiding. It's that rogues weren't invented yet. But the cleric has always been there.

I dunno, they were pretty famous for awhile for being the 'C' in 'CoDzilla'.

Between channel energy, prepared spells, and domain powers, while they might not get the most abilities per level, all the while with a 3/4th BAB despite being a full caster, they tend to be pretty high in class flexibility with a ton to do each day. Sure, what they get isn't as easy to point to in a flashy manner, but 'more options every level plus increasing of prior ones,' makes them quite fun to play.

Clerics were dreadfully dull in 2ed and before, but they're just really flexible now and flexible is never dull (well, unless it's also weak, which they aren't). Sure, they may not be getting more specialties, but with so many viable options (plus we do get the occasional new subdomain), do we really need it?

Also I find domains more evocative than Wizard's arcane schools or fighter's feats.


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Clerics aren't weak, a well played one is actually very powerful.
Clerics can be very, very boring, especially since a great many tables demand that they be so. If your table demands a heal-bot and wonders why they have to twist people's arms to play one, you might have a problem, or you might even be the problem.

If you demand an optimal, sole focused healer, you darned well better be the one playing it.


D&D 2nd Edition actually had cool ideas for Clerics, with Specialty Priests. The implementation left something to be desired in terms of balance . . . actually in a way not unlike that of modern Pathfinder Cleric/Druid Domains, which don't give as much flavor.


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Daw wrote:

Clerics aren't weak, a well played one is actually very powerful.

Clerics can be very, very boring, especially since a great many tables demand that they be so. If your table demands a heal-bot and wonders why they have to twist people's arms to play one, you might have a problem, or you might even be the problem.

If you demand an optimal, sole focused healer, you darned well better be the one playing it.

Even if they demand a healbot, there are better ways of accomplishing this than by playing a Cleric, such as Oracle or Shaman, and they have more/better tools for the job than a Cleric does.

So really, even if their argument is "Cleric is a Healbot, and we want a Healbot," the problem stems from Clerics still lacking very boring options that other classes with identical roles aren't symptomatic of.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


Even if they demand a healbot, there are better ways of accomplishing this than by playing a Cleric, such as Oracle or Shaman, and they have more/better tools for the job than a Cleric does.

And here in lies the truth... the cleric is basically obsolete in PF.

Even the much maligned Rogue and Fighter are more relevant IMO... a well played fighter is worth their weight.


a cleric is far more than a healbot, even though it excels at healing, roughly on the same level as the oracle, though channeling is an excellent feature too, I think only life oracles are better healrs.


doc roc wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


Even if they demand a healbot, there are better ways of accomplishing this than by playing a Cleric, such as Oracle or Shaman, and they have more/better tools for the job than a Cleric does.

And here in lies the truth... the cleric is basically obsolete in PF.

Even the much maligned Rogue and Fighter are more relevant IMO... a well played fighter is worth their weight.

I think that's actually quite untrue? I've always considered clerics to be invaluable, even over other spellcasters and in ways other than healbots. While some of their mechanics are a bit 'boring', the same argument could be levelled at wizards for much the same reason. They have extremely similar mechanics with similar class features. The difference is only their spell lists, which generally have similar power with differences mostly down to what each one does in extreme corner cases.

I think a fighter or rogue is only ever worth their weight if there is a cleric or another spellcaster keeping them up and running. There are innumerable instances in my time playing where it was the cleric who ended up saving the day and ensuring our victory or just making sure our adventure is a success. It was only a cleric that could do it, as well, since their niche spell preps were how we managed at all.


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A cleric can buff, blast, fight... quite a lot depending on domains.

If you *want* to play a healbot you can, but you have the options for so much more, even without losing your healbot capacity. Having a 'boring' option isn't the same as being boring when you have so many other options.


Merellin wrote:

So, This is just a random thread of no great matter. But, Do you ever feel jeallous of the other people in your party during level up when you hear what stuff they get on their class feature list? I kind of got today after our session. We leveld up and everyone was getting all these awesome class features every level! And I look at my Cleric and go "I get a 1d6 increase in Channel Energy every other level.."

I know I get spells and other stuff, And I like the class. I just got slightly jeallous of their class feature per level list.. xD

This sounds like a very odd question to me. Anyone who spends a few minutes can check all the class features. If I'm "envious" of something, I can just decided to pick that class. If I didn't pick that class, I did that on purpose.

Sure I wish alchemist or another class had a thing or two but that's what archetypes are for. "I want x but I picked y" is just odd.


Corvo Spiritwind wrote:
Merellin wrote:

So, This is just a random thread of no great matter. But, Do you ever feel jeallous of the other people in your party during level up when you hear what stuff they get on their class feature list? I kind of got today after our session. We leveld up and everyone was getting all these awesome class features every level! And I look at my Cleric and go "I get a 1d6 increase in Channel Energy every other level.."

I know I get spells and other stuff, And I like the class. I just got slightly jeallous of their class feature per level list.. xD

This sounds like a very odd question to me. Anyone who spends a few minutes can check all the class features. If I'm "envious" of something, I can just decided to pick that class. If I didn't pick that class, I did that on purpose.

Sure I wish alchemist or another class had a thing or two but that's what archetypes are for. "I want x but I picked y" is just odd.

I can see, "I want to do X concept, but the concepts for X don't have as many features as Y does...".

Though as mentioned, that's much more a fighter thing than a cleric (or any full or even half caster) for more.


^Arcanist and Witch let you pick quite a lot of options as you level up, in addition to all those spells . . . Until the Weapon Master's Handbook came out, a Fighter didn't have all that many more choices even if you give 0 weight to the spells, and even after the Armor Master's Handbook came out, the Fighter has only about 2X more choices even if you give 0 weight to the spells. And for practical purposes it is often less than 2X, because so many martial feats come in chains (sometimes anastomosing) that nickel and dime you to death. Granted, some magical feats do this as well (the summoning chain being the most obvious example), but those are easier to avoid if you want to.


It's an eay feeling to get. You're looking at your BAB and Fort going up one, and the GM's going through all the spells and bardic performances that the bard gets now.

Then you remember that there's that rage power you're dithering on while your bard's getting two mercy rerolls on his d8 HP that came up 1 ...


One thing that I have found immensely helpful for my Cleric is the feat Selective Casting. At this point, that is an automatic include for me. It allows me to heal up the party in the middle of a fight and then go back to whatever it is I want to do, whether that be meleeing, crowd controlling or blasting stuff.

Hmm, I just realized it requires charisma 13. I see that you realized the importance of charisma after making the character. It might be worth speaking to your gm to see if you could do a one time stat switch. It's irregular but from what you said, you didn't fully understand the class when you made the character. If you could I'd put the 10 on dex or int. Some gm's will say no but it's worth asking.

Also, I took create potion and it's actually been pretty great if you're really into crafting. It seems like you've gotten put in the "walking box of band-aids box" and the beautiful thing about Pathfinder and channel energy is that you can be freed from that. That said, if you're not allowed to retrain feats I wouldn't take it since you already have a crafting feat.

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