Magic Items and Light Spell Levels

[DiscOH]

For the purpose of interacting with Darkness (the spell), how do you determine the spell level of a magic item?

I'd assume that something that lists "light" as a creation requirement would only generate light as a 0-level spell. But what about magic items with no light spell requirements? Do you go off of the highest level spell requirement? The lowest? (CL/2)+1?

Here are two examples:
Tablet of the First Law

Glowing Gourd

[Gallant Armor]

Given that the illumination for those items is "like a candle" which is weaker than "like a torch" as is given by Light and Continual Flame, I would say it's equivalent to a 0-level spell effect at best.

[Jurassic Pratt]

Would you not just use the item's caster level to determine the effect?

[Samish Lakefinder]

Spell level is what is important when interacting with magical darkness.

[Dave Justus]

I believe that unless a magical item specifically says it will counter magical darkness or specifically says 'as the spell' it won't have any effect on magical darkness at all.

[DiscOH]

Dave Justus wrote:

I believe that unless a magical item specifically says it will counter magical darkness or specifically says 'as the spell' it won't have any effect on magical darkness at all.

Technically a magical item that generates light is a "Magical light source" and can potentially usurp darkness's area of effect. The same goes true for magical beasts that emanate light (Such as a zoog with spell sight). Supernatural effects are even explicitly calculated @ CL/2+1 for spell level interactions.

The point of this thread is to find out if there are any rules references stating something similar with magic items.

[Dave Justus]

Zoog's Spell sight explicitly says that it is normal light.

Magical light source can be parsed too ways.

1) A source of (magical light)

2) a (magical source) of light

Regardless of that though, if an item just says it emits light but doesn't have a spell level there is no way to determine that it can overcome any given magical darkness. Caster level is irrelevant, a 20th level wizard casting a light cantrip will not overcome darkness.

Basically the default is unless you have rules that specifically says something will do X, it doesn't do X, and a non-spell level light effect, whether magical in origin or not, does not overcome darkness unless it specifically says so.

[DiscOH]

Darkness wrote:

Nonmagical sources of light, such as torches and lanterns, do not increase the light level in an area of darkness.

Seems like a bit of a stretch to assume "Nonmagical sources of light" means "Non sources of 'Magical Light'".

Darkness wrote:

Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.

If you wanted to interpret this section like that though, it would imply magical sources of "Light" (the spell) are the only magical sources that Darkness can suppress.

[Dave Justus]

Let me rephrase.

The light spells and similar things are definitely magical sources of of light. In any sense you want to look at them.

What you are doing though it saying light generated by a magical item or supernatural effect is automatically a 'magical source of light' because it is magical. It is this usage that I'm disagreeing with.

As an example, the Zoog you pointed out specifically generated normal light, even though that generation is a result of a supernatural effect.

As I said previously though, that doesn't matter "Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness." If the light in question has no spell level, then it does not have a higher spell level than darkness.

[DiscOH]

"Normal light" is a mechanical word denoting light strength (as opposed to bright/dim light).

"Non-magical light" is a mechanical word denoting the source is mundane (or cosmic, in the case of "Ambient light").

I feel like claiming magical item effects have no spell level (not the same as 0-level) is going to create a lot of rules issues if applied unilaterally.