1) Half Orc / Half Elf:
Can a Half Orc cast major mind swap on an orc?
Can a Half Elf cast major mind swap on an elf?
Can Either cast major mind swap on a human?
2) Half Elf - Dragon Soul Trait: "half-elves with this trait also count as dragons for the purposes of effects targeting creatures by type"
Does this mean a half elf with this trait could cast major mind swap on a dragon?
yes from the looks of it, but I highly doubt a GM would then allow you to keep your character should you succeed in this. It would be like willingly becoming Vampire, or Lycanthrope, the DM would then ask you to hand over your character and pretty much make them into a NPC for him or her to control.
On the flip side why stop at half elves, you could simply be a Wyvaran couldn't you and have the dragon type from the jump start.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/advanced-races-11-20-r p/wyvaran-17-rp/
yes from the looks of it, but I highly doubt a GM would then allow you to keep your character should you succeed in this. It would be like willingly becoming Vampire, or Lycanthrope, the DM would then ask you to hand over your character and pretty much make them into a NPC for him or her to control.
Doesnt that happen only because your mind becomes corrupted by vamprism / lycanthropy ? Why would a spell that specifically keeps your mind intact cause you to "lose control" of your character?
Given its a rules forum I'd like to know if there's a rule supporting this, or just your concern over the power level of a 9th level spell.
1) Half Orc / Half Elf:
2) Half Elf - Dragon Soul Trait: "half-elves with this trait also count as dragons for the purposes of effects targeting creatures by type"
Does this mean a half elf with this trait could cast major mind swap on a dragon?
No.
Target one creature of your same race
It doesn't say type. A Black Dragon can't swap with a Red Dragon using this spell, a "dragon undefined" can't swap with anything.
Secondly, even if it were type and not race, strict RAW Dragon Soul would let a dragon cast it on an elf with this trait, but would not let an elf cast it on a dragon. The elf has to be the target, not the caster, for the trait to kick in with the type substitution.
I don't have an opinion on the half-orc/half-elf/human/elf/orc stuff, I don't understand or care much about how the racial commonality stuff works there. It doesn't seem problematic, though.
Hmmm, good point, forgot dragon was a type not race.
Thanks Pseudo.
So q2 is no, but q1 is likely yes? (unless the GM gains control of your character... though I dont know why they would.)
I think so. Like lots of high level spells, it might serve some neat story purpose to bend the (sometimes vague) rules a bit, if your GM will go along.
I'm still not convinced you can divorce race and type that easily, race has always been a subject of subtypes usually, such as elf being a subtype usually applied to humanoids, yet it's distinctively different than drow, or orc all still humanoid, however dragons and other non humanoid creatures don't hold such distinctions, their type is their race. There is no racial difference between a True Dragon and a Wyvern, they are both Dragons. I guess what I'm saying is for non humanoids their type is their race.
yes from the looks of it, but I highly doubt a GM would then allow you to keep your character should you succeed in this. It would be like willingly becoming Vampire, or Lycanthrope, the DM would then ask you to hand over your character and pretty much make them into a NPC for him or her to control.Doesnt that happen only because your mind becomes corrupted by vamprism / lycanthropy ? Why would a spell that specifically keeps your mind intact cause you to "lose control" of your character?
Given its a rules forum I'd like to know if there's a rule supporting this, or just your concern over the power level of a 9th level spell.
It's more a point about how many GMs (myself included) wouldn't allow you to get such a permanent body upgrade. Just like even if I were running an evil campaign I wouldn't let you become a lich either (which is completely within the power of like a 10th level caster to do). Just because it can be done by the rules doesn't mean I as a GM am required to let you do it. Some options are just broke AF.
As a GM, I might let a character do something like this with the understanding that if successful the character becomes an NPC and no longer travels with the party.
It's more a point about how many GMs (myself included) wouldn't allow you to get such a permanent body upgrade. Just like even if I were running an evil campaign I wouldn't let you become a lich either (which is completely within the power of like a 10th level caster to do). Just because it can be done by the rules doesn't mean I as a GM am required to let you do it. Some options are just broke AF.
As a GM, I might let a character do something like this with the understanding that if successful the character becomes an NPC and no longer travels with the party.
I assume you're talking only about mind swapping a dragon, or is mind swapping, say, an orc, really that broken?
The orc/half-orc/human/half-elf/elf thing works, because half-orc count as being human and orc for their race for all effects, and the same for half-elves with elves and humans. If you can take alternate FCBs off another page, that's enough to mind-swap. A few specific aasimars, tieflings, and kitsunes would be vulnerable thanks to feats or racial traits, but they'd be vanishingly rare.
As mentioned, the dragon issue fortunately isn't one.
I'm still not convinced you can divorce race and type that easily, race has always been a subject of subtypes usually, such as elf being a subtype usually applied to humanoids, yet it's distinctively different than drow, or orc all still humanoid, however dragons and other non humanoid creatures don't hold such distinctions, their type is their race. There is no racial difference between a True Dragon and a Wyvern, they are both Dragons. I guess what I'm saying is for non humanoids their type is their race.
The only example of races normally being used as a rules concept is with the humanoid subtypes, which exist for balance reasons and because the vast majority of PCs are humanoids. From that we can infer that race = it has its own bestiary entry. As a GM it's pretty easy to say that this spell is intended to let you get a new version of the body you already have, not do an upgrade or sidegrade.
You'd think an evil, venerable Psychic would be happy just to go to the slave market and find a young, attractive, high physical stat body of his own race to move into, but no, they've got to looking to be a dragon or something similarly silly.
I assume you're talking only about mind swapping a dragon, or is mind swapping, say, an orc, really that broken?It's more a point about how many GMs (myself included) wouldn't allow you to get such a permanent body upgrade. Just like even if I were running an evil campaign I wouldn't let you become a lich either (which is completely within the power of like a 10th level caster to do). Just because it can be done by the rules doesn't mean I as a GM am required to let you do it. Some options are just broke AF.
As a GM, I might let a character do something like this with the understanding that if successful the character becomes an NPC and no longer travels with the party.
Dragons, or other things players typically wouldn't have access to. An orc is fine though.
I would even let you grab drow (probably wouldn't let you get drow noble though).
Dragons, or other things players typically wouldn't have access to. An orc is fine though.
I would even let you grab drow (probably wouldn't let you get drow noble though).
Heh, drow noble would arguably be a weaker choice than an orc
Orc: +4 str
Drow Noble: +4 dex, -2 con
Depends on how much you want that dex i suppose.