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Spheres of Power - Divided Creation

Advice and Rules Questions

Can the smaller objects created be smaller than Small? Like, create a 5' by 5' and 1" thick square of wall as two steps down from Small? And would reducing it like that allow more objects of equal size for Divided Creation?

The idea is Create Materials with prerequisites + Expanded Materials to create slabs of iron to sell. But, iron is very heavy so I'd like to know if it can be made in smaller blocks that are more numerous than outright named as possible for better transportation.

Well, first of all, you're gonna need some way to make the objects permanent, since they usually only last as long as you concentrate (up to 1 min per caster level). The Create Materials advanced talent is probably the best option there, but your GM might not be allowing those. If you wanted to run a bluff, I suppose you could grab Lengthened Creation instead.... Anyway!

Presumably, you can create smaller items. The "Create" ability, which works with Divided Creation, says that creating things like candles is easy - and you're probably not creating chair-sized candles every time. XD

As a GM, I would run it as "yes, you can make smaller items, but each smaller item still counts as one small object for the purpose of determining how many you can make". In other words, no, you couldn't make a ton of extra items by making them all smaller than normal. That's a little too easy to abuse, see, with things like "massive but paper-thin" walls or "hollow" objects that allow you to create something far bigger than intended at a given caster level.

For the game in question, I'm the GM. I already chose to allow advanced talents under certain conditions, which these NPCs would meet. This is on a permanent basis, yes; I was planning on having them have all those talents.

Thanks for your insight about other abuses of that trick, I was on the fence, but now I think I agree that they should still count as a small at minimum (I was planning on just having this type of NPC making lots of small iron things sized for a forge - economic implications of that advanced)

Barring further evidence, then, I guess I'll need to come up with ways the smiths could cut the iron down to size, to make it usable.

Liberty's Edge

I agree that making smaller objects count as small for determining max number it probably wise. I did send the link to Adam Meijer to get his thoughts, but he is pretty slammed at the moment with trying to get stuff out. The ask me anything thread over on giant in the playground is a good place for questions like this as well. e-Anything-2

A lot of economic implications depend on how common such things are. Even one person who can essentially create endless amounts of a raw material is a pretty massive boon for a country - like, "get hired by the government to do that one thing" useful.

Unless you're waiving prerequisites (which is something, as GM, you could do), our NPC caster friend here has a minimum Caster Level of 10th, which means he's also at least Character Level 10 if he's a High Caster (and I'll assume he is), or noticeably higher if he's a Mid or Low Caster. Estimating Spell Points is a little harder, of course, since I don't know what tradition he has or anything, but even as an NPC, 14-20 spell points/day seems plausible. At 2 spell points a pop, that's at least seven creations of eight metal chunks per day, or 56 small objects' worth. On a yearly basis, that would be over 20,000 ingots' worth, more if they focused their talents on making things with stuff like the Extra Spell Points feat taken a few times. That's some serious industrial production right there, and more so if this NPC is fairly typical for your setting. XD I'd expect iron to be plentifully available and used in a lot of stuff around wherever that NPC was located.

Or, y'know, you could not worry too much about it. XD Maybe they "didn't feel like" being such an industrial workhorse and the nation didn't really need it, so the economic implications aren't too bad. You'd still probably have a fair amount of iron around, though. Basically, just dive as deep into the economic implications as you think will be fun and relevant for the players, and don't worry too much about trying to simulate a real economy. The game, uh, isn't really designed to do that. XD

james014Aura wrote:
Barring further evidence, then, I guess I'll need to come up with ways the smiths could cut the iron down to size, to make it usable.

Make cubes of ingots with thin connections between, like the way plastic pieces come in model sets. Then it's easy-enough to saw through the connections and/or bash the bars out of the cube. With a smaller surface area the bars are easier to melt down for whatever use you have for them.

I don't consider this using the "make multiple smaller item" cheat because you're just making materials, just in an easier-to-harvest form.

Ah! An excellent work-around. Thanks; that sounds great. (I think I'll require some level of craft to do that saw-off-able thing, though, as a balance.)

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