Make the Most of the Drakerider Cavalier


Advice

Scarab Sages

Hello!

I've never played a melee character so I'm trying something new with my next campaign (My DM is story focused more than optimization focused, what happens happens but he's not necessarily out to kill us) and since dragons are a big part of the (homebrew) setting and I've always wanted to play a Dragonrider I decided on the Drakerider Cavalier.

Now I know that they are not popular, and are overall seen as pretty weak. I do know that once I suggested that the drake was an abandoned mutant dragon egg, i.e. the mother left it for dead because it was genetically wrong instead of being a true-bred drake, he changed the drakes stats and seems to be basing his stat and flight progression on something else, but I don't know what and I don't want to ask because story. The changes are basically his stats are higher and I don't have to take the flight-related Drake Powers (I do still have to take mount powers if I want to ride him)

That said, I don't know how to go about building the rider at all. The only thing is that she is an Elven Drakerider Cavalier, so the question is how do you go about making the most of the Drakerider Cavalier?

Shadow Lodge

So the first thing is... you sure you want an elf? Because a medium-size drakerider can't actually ride their drake until level 13. If you play a halfling or gnome instead you can start riding your drake at level 9.

Scarab Sages

For plot reasons yes, I'm basically putting myself in a bad situation and trying to make the best of it 8D


First problem; the drake won't be large size until level 13. Its mount ability requires the rider to be a size smaller than it, so unless you do something like get reduce person and permanency cast on your elf, that's as early as she can practically ride it - no undersized mount feat bypass.

Second: you lose a lot of the cavalier abilities. You keep the challenge, the order (albeit with limited choices) and a bonus feat each 6 levels, otherwise you're basically the NPC warrior class.

Third, if you're playing long enough to ride it from a low level, one build may be a problem - the drake changes from being a tiny creature which may be a useful scout but shouldn't fight in melee to the reverse. Your cavalier maybe changes from a footsoldier to cavalry.

Still, if you're willing to bite many bullets and accept that you won't ever be the most powerful character in the party, there are things you might do.

An archer is a reasonable combat style for anyone with full BAB, and transitioning to mounted combat only requires a couple of feats. Order of the Dragon works with a back line character directing others. The drake probably wants to be built as a melee BSF, without flight or breath weapon.

Alternately you might concentrate on the drake as scout and get it burrow or something, and use it as a flanking partner later until you could ride it. ACG Order of the Beast would let you buff it at level 8+. Obviously you'd be looking at some sort of melee build; be aware
that any other melee characters in the party will be better than you and maybe try for a combat style which the others don't, maybe a combat maneuver.


I couldn't bring myself to like or see any useful capabilities in having a drake companion.

Zero.

I can't fathom why someone would give up so many class abilities to have a crap thing that refuses to wear items, doesn't help you and you can't even ride until the game is basically over.

Scarab Sages

avr wrote:
Second: you lose a lot of the cavalier abilities. You keep the challenge, the order (albeit with limited choices) and a bonus feat each 6 levels, otherwise you're basically the NPC warrior class.

Honestly losing Tactician is my biggest hangup and I might be negotiating with my DM to get it back. Luckily this is a homebrew game and my DM is more about having fun than playing by RAW so this is a feasible option. I can probably get at least one of the lost abilities back.

Also there is no limit on my order, we're basically throwing out all the "fluff" from the drake.

avr wrote:
Third, if you're playing long enough to ride it from a low level, one build may be a problem

We're starting at 3rd level, no word on how far we're going to go (it pretty much depends on us really) but last game with this DM went from 1 to 16 and we're told this one will probably level a bit faster.

avr wrote:
Alternately you might concentrate on the drake as scout and get it burrow or something, and use it as a flanking partner later until you could ride it. ACG Order of the Beast would let you buff it at level 8+. Obviously you'd be looking at some sort of melee build; be aware that any other melee characters in the party will be better than you and maybe try for a combat style which the others don't, maybe a combat maneuver.

Honestly it can't be worse than my laster character, an Eldritch Scion magus when I could not for the life of me remember I had spell combat. I am not proud. I'm prepared to be out-damaged so I'm definitely looking at combat maneuvers, maybe a reach weapon and focus on trip. Those kinds of ideas are why I'm here.

Letric wrote:
I can't fathom why someone would give up so many class abilities to have a crap thing that refuses to wear items, doesn't help you and you can't even ride until the game is basically over.

I'm notorious for taking the worse option because of fluff, honestly. And because I have a flexible GM who's willing to boost the terribleness of it, I don't have to take and Fly drake powers and he's boosted it's stats I just don't know what to yet. The only real "hangup" he's not re-doing is riding it at level 13, which I'm fine with because we'll probably reach that point and beyond in this campaign.


If you're focusing on trip and your drake can't fly then flying monsters are an achilles heel to you. An elven branched spear and weapon finesse is a definite possiblity if you go that way though. Don't dump strength entirely, you'll probably need to use a bow against those flyers.

Dirty trick is the standard answer for a combat maneuver that works on most monsters. It's often less effective but more reliable than trip. Any order with a melee attack bonus against your challenged target works, none are especially good.

I like the ACG version of Order of the Beast, but if you decide to do tripping and you can work with the awkward flavour then Order of the Seal would help.

Order of the Penitent makes a surprisingly good grappler, Order of the Hammer can do sundering or grappling but may not fit your concept well. Other combat maneuvers aren't especially supported by the orders.

Shadow Lodge

avr wrote:
If you're focusing on trip and your drake can't fly

OP says the GM is giving the flight powers for free, so the Drake will be able to fly.

Trip would still be a problem with flyers, though.

Do you know what the rest of the party is doing? Archery might not be a bad plan if you're the only ranged character.

Scarab Sages

avr wrote:
I like the ACG version of Order of the Beast, but if you decide to do tripping and you can work with the awkward flavour then Order of the Seal would help.

Huh, my last (short lived) Cavalier was Order of the Seal. Honestly it wouldn't even be that awkward of flavor, really. Dragons are supposed to be extinct.

Weirdo wrote:
Do you know what the rest of the party is doing? Archery might not be a bad plan if you're the only ranged character.

Mooncursed Barbarian, Goblin Vitalist, Human Bolt Ace Gunslinger, and an undecided, so I'm not the only ranged character.


I'd say you're better off with the Silver Champion Paladin. At least that archetype gets Mount as a bonus power.


A lot of people have pointed out the level you'd get to ride your Drake because of size. Undersized mount as a feat should work and you can retrain it after that.


Omnitricks wrote:
A lot of people have pointed out the level you'd get to ride your Drake because of size. Undersized mount as a feat should work and you can retrain it after that.

Keep in mind that undersized mount won't help the mount at all when it comes to load and encumbrance. Medium sized mounts take a major hit in payload capacity. You've got to factor in your weight, the weight of your gear, and of course the weight of the saddle and any barding you're putting on it.


Omnitricks wrote:
A lot of people have pointed out the level you'd get to ride your Drake because of size. Undersized mount as a feat should work and you can retrain it after that.

No, doesn't work. The drake won't accept a rider unless it's at least one size smaller, separate from the general mount rules which undersized mount modifies. It's implied that this is the drakes' psychology rather than physiology.


Actually reading the actual Drake entries on the srd, Drake's are absolutely horrible. Powers are lackluster and if the cavalier wants to ride it, it also has to spend one of the limited powers on the mount power which is so specific that undersized mount as a feat is still useless.

At the same time the Drake can't even use armor and is limited to one magic item.

And the cavalier also has to give up do much features just to get a terrible mount not equal the trade-off. (Your mount can't even fly with you on it unless you take the improved mount power above the mount power)

I think you are better off getting a vanilla cavalier or something and asking your gm if you can get a Drake anyway since it's a homebrew game. The archetype is really not worth it.

Shadow Lodge

There actually is some community homebrew I'd show your GM for the drakes - even if he decides he doesn't want to use it directly, it's a reference for what other people in the community feel is balanced.

RainbowMagicMarker wrote:
Mooncursed Barbarian, Goblin Vitalist, Human Bolt Ace Gunslinger, and an undecided, so I'm not the only ranged character.

Then a reach build sounds like your best bet to do something interesting in combat.

If you do go the elven branched spear route I'd get a Str 13-14 so you could Power Attack for decent damage. However if you're also wanting to do maneuvers as an elven cavalier you'll be feat hungry - taking Weapon Finesse slows down your ability to take Combat Reflexes and maneuver feats. I think whether you want the branched spear or a more traditional polearm (suggest ranseur or bardiche) depends on how good your stats are.

You probably want Dirty Fighting since it acts as Combat Expertise when qualifying for maneuver feats and improves your ability to perform maneuvers when flanking with the barbarian or at mid levels your drake.


My next dragon rider will be a halfling or gnome vigilante with the magical child archetype and a Pyrausta mauler familiar. Dragon riding at level 3!

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