Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
So now that the Healers Handbook is out on the d20psfrd I want to talk about the Sacrament Alchemist archetype. Mainly About Its Sacred Cognatogen. It trades out their Mutagen for the ability to gain the powers of the any one domain of the god you worship at any time. You also get Divinely Inspired Alchemy which lets you gain a discovery for a day at alchemist level - 2 when you prepare extracts in exchange for swift alchemy.
So what i want to know is what god and more generally what domains are worth taking for this archetype? I think this archetype could have a lot of versatility to it but I am not sure where to begin in thinking about it becasue of the large amount of domains and sub-domains. Also what discovery's are useful for taking advantage of the Divinely Inspired Alchemy ability?
Edit: I have no idea how linking things works so here is the link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alc hemist-archetypes/sacrament-alchemist/
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Since you not only lose mutagen but can't take it later, this is not a good archetype for a melee alchemist. Inability to take the normal cognatogen is also a bummer for a bomb-lobbing alchemist but it's less of a big deal for them, and the ability to take an additional flexible discovery may actually outweigh the cognatogen opportunity cost.
You only get one domain at a time, but get to pick a different domain each time you make your sacred cognatogen. That means you want a deity with at least one strong domain, but additional useful domains are also good. For these additional domains, powers that are situationally useful will be better for you than a typical cleric. Note that domain powers that affect spellcasting (like the 6th level Healing Domain power) do not by RAW affect your extracts, so those aren't useful unless you're playing in a home game with a permissive GM.
Liberation, Luck, Madness, Travel, Trickery, and Repose have some really nice domain powers.
Glory/Honour/Heroism are solid in an intrigue campaign, or as a situational choice for an intrigue adventure. Community can be useful - possibly more useful than for a cleric with Unity letting others take your saving throws. Reflex saves often catch several party members, and it's less likely to cause a party wipe than if everyone takes your bad Will save. Darkness could be handy. Restoration Subdomain's 1st level condition removal power is very useful at low levels (though again the high level Healing power is a waste).
There's probably some good subdomains I'm not aware of, and some domains that might be particularly useful to pick up situationally if you have a bit of warning (like Law or Chaos).
As usual, Desna is a top-notch deity for domains, with all three of Liberation, Luck, and Travel.
Sarenrae could be useful in the right campaign for Glory/Heroism, Restoration, and situational use of the Light subdomain (compared to the Sun domain it replaces a 1st-level power you can't use with one that's handy against mooks). It's also super easy to make a thematic Sarenite alchemist.
Lamashtu and Callistra both have two strong domains (Trickery/Madness and Trickery/Luck) plus some situational ones.
Cayden, Sheylyn, Abadar, Pharasma all have one very strong domain which makes them workable.
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Divinely inspired alchemy seems like it would be the most useful in days when you're not adventuring, allowing you to access a bunch of miscellaneous abilities that most alchemists wouldn't spend a discovery on. You could use alchemical simulacrum and alchemical zombie to create minions, diffusion to get more mileage out of your potions, poison conversion to make whatever type of poisons you want - even infusion to keep a couple of infused extracts on hand. But my top choices would be 1) spell knowledge, because it lets you access whatever sorcerer/wizard spells you feel like getting, and 2) tumor familiar, because the ability to summon a completely new, customizable familiar at the start of each day is just too awesome to pass up.
Now, here are my thoughts on the best domains to pick:
Animal (Feather): An alchemist with an animal companion is a wonderful thing, and Boon Companion raises it to full progression. Flanking buddy for a vivisectionist, bodyguard for a bomber - the possibilities are endless. Add in the ability to completely redesign your companion every day and some nice bonuses to Fly, Perception, and surprise round initiative, and this is a very solid domain.
Chaos (Demon): For melee fighters (aka vivisectionists). Swift action buffs are great for alchemists, because they don't interfere with your extract casting. This lets you add half your level to melee attack and damage for 3+Int rounds per day - a very nice substitute for mutagen. Plus the occasional anarchic weapon.
Destruction (Rage): Admit it: you've always wanted to play a vivisectionist with rage. Well, now you can - no dipping necessary. This archetype gives you not only rage, but a 3+Int/day half-level damage bonus and eventual rage powers.
Fire (Smoke): Fun for fire bombers - once you get fire resistance, you can detonate at close range with impunity. Plus the occasional smoke cloud to hide in while you toss your bombs.
Glory (Heroism): Another great swift action buff, but this one buffs your entire party and applies to pretty much everything. When you add in the ability to make your party awesome at Charisma-based checks, this one is a real team player.
Knowledge (Memory): This domain's a solid choice for clerics, but for alchemists it's an absolutely perfect fit - and the cleverer the better. It gives you eight additional knowledge skills on an Int-based class with 4+Int skills per level. You can reroll any knowledge check (or let others do so) with an insight bonus equal to your intelligence that stacks with the Int bonus you already get. And then there's the divisible rounds-per-level clairvoyance/clairaudience that's useful enough to justify a domain choice all by itself.
Luck (Fate): This one's good for pretty much everyone, alchemists included. Buff your allies with rerolls or force your enemies to fail their saves when it really matters against your debuffing bombs.
Liberation: Another old standby. Who doesn't want a condition-removal aura and freedom of movement whenever it becomes helpful?
Plant (Growth): Sure, you have enlarge person on your formula list, but you definitely can't cast it as a swift action. Just grab a longspear and an extract of long arm and be that reach alchemist of your dreams. Plus a little bit of damage against melee attackers.
Scalykind (Saurian): A great alternative to feather for anyone who wants their alchemist to have a pet dinosaur - and let's face it, who doesn't? This also combines very nicely with the half-orc Beast Rider feat, expanding your companion options and bringing you up to full effective level. You also get a random fascinating gaze attack.
Travel: This domain can be incredibly convenient for bombers and melee fighters alike. With a +10-foot movement speed, free action difficult terrain negation, and move action teleportation, alchemists have never been more mobile.
War (Tactics): Not only does this give you a swift action quasi- martial flexibility to boost your combat performance, it lets you (or your most supportive or rocket-taggy ally) roll twice on your initiative rolls and take the highest result. A useful domain to have.
Water (Flotsam): This domain is not so much tactically useful as it is ridiculously fun, especially for someone specializing in alchemical items. Want a potion? A poison? A bucket of acid? Just reach into the water and pull it out. The only limit is your imagination.
You could also pick an animal or terrain domain from the list available to druids and "other nature-themed classes with access to domains."
Cave: Darkvision and tremorsense. Not too exciting, but not too shabby either.
Crocodile: This is the one the vivisectionists have been waiting for. Not only do you get a handy dwarf caiman familiar for a stealth bonus and a flanking buddy, you get several bonus sneak attack dice above and beyond the rogue-like progression of the vivisectionist. Add in other sources of sneak attack like the sense vitals spell or a rogue variant multiclass, and things will get very deadly, very quickly. Sap Master and sniper goggles, here we come.
Desert: Free action concealment for the miss chance and potential for stealth (and sneak attack), plus you get to bind genies.
Eagle: Particularly good for ranged alchemists: the hawk familiar and the attack roll bonus are nice, but evasion is the real prize and alchemists have plenty of in-class flight capabilities to make use of it.
Plains: Pounce!! Sure, it's only a couple of times per day, but it can be really helpful to let the melee types close in on the first round of combat. Sort of a consolation prize for not being able to take beastmorph. Unfortunately, the other ability will be useless to you unless you're a preservationist.
Plane of Earth: Another one that's all about the mobility. Difficult terrain bypassing on stony ground can be handy, if situational, but the swift-action earth glide is pure gold and very hard to come by otherwise.
Plane of Fire: A real winner for any crazed firebombers out there. You don't just gain fire resistance that stacks with any from your race, you can share that resistance with allies for hours at a time to soften the pain of any erratic throws. And your eventual fire elemental familiar can just stand there and take it.
Vermin: Boosted initiative, familiar, and tremorsense. All pretty consistently useful things to have.
Wolf: This domain makes an alchemical trip build surprisingly viable, with a free Improved Trip and the ability to add your Int bonus to attack rolls (including combat maneuver checks) whenever you're flanking your enemy. Combines well with the vivisectionist archetype and/or the tumor familiar discovery.
Finally, you could select an inquisition from the list available to inquisitors and any "other domain-using class"
Anger: Another way to get rage! You get about as many rounds as the rage subdomain, and you gain the ability two levels earlier. Unfortunately, you never get any rage powers, but you do get a free attack once per day against an enemy who hit you.
Black Powder: The bonus Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) and Gunsmithing could definitely help with alleviating the stress of a feat-heavy firearm alchemist build. This would work nicely with the grenadier archetype and/or the explosive missile discovery, so you can infuse your bullets with alchemical items or bombs.
Chivalry: You get a mount - not as powerful as the feather or saurian domain animal companions, but it doesn't need a feat to be boosted to full level progression, and it could be quite useful for getting around.
Clandestine: Stealthiness galore. The standard action invisibility is a bit too unwieldy to be very useful in combat, but it would definitely help with emergency escaping or sneaking around - as would the ability to reroll stealth and other crucial skill checks several times per day.
Conversion: Several inquisitions let you add your wisdom bonus to social skills, which for the sacrament alchemist becomes your intelligence bonus - instantly turning you into a wonderful face. With conversion you get Int in place of Cha to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate, plus a 1 minute/day dominate person.
Heresy: Int in place of Cha for bluff and intimidate, rerolls on bluff, diplomacy, and stealth, and 1/day bestow curse.
Persistence: +10 foot movement speed as a swift action gives a nice boost to your mobility, Step Up as a bonus feat helps melee alchemists deal with casters and ranged attackers, and versatile swift action condition removal can save your life in an emergency.
Politics: Getting to add your Int in addition to Cha makes you the king of bluff and diplomacy, and the 1/day commune could be very handy.
Redemption: Making all your natural weapons merciful is perfect for a Sap Master vivisectionist, and the skill bonuses will certainly come in handy.
Reformation: Everything you need for a social alchemist: Int in place of Cha for diplomacy, intimidate, and perform (oratory), rerolls for those skills, and charm person several times per day.
Tactics: Giving up your turn to grant an ally a round of haste is almost never going to be worth it, but at 8th level you get to add your intelligence bonus to the initiative checks of your entire party.
Zeal: If you're going to be fighting lots of enemies from one religion, favored enemy will be incredibly useful, whether you're fighting with weapons or bombs. And automatic emergency healing is crucial when you're going to be in the thick of combat.
I doubt that the animal companion domain options would work out. You're only under the effect of the divine cognatogen for 10 mins per level, and animal companions are not instantaneously summmoned out of the ether. You have to go and recruit them.
supervillan wrote: I doubt that the animal companion domain options would work out. You're only under the effect of the divine cognatogen for 10 mins per level, and animal companions are not instantaneously summmoned out of the ether. You have to go and recruit them. You might be able to just bring the type of animal you want around with you, then drink your sacramental cognatogen to enhance it into an actual animal companion. Depends on the GM.
A preservationist alchemist with the void/dark tapestry domain seems like it might work.
Healing/medicine isn't an option for power, but it could be very appropriate for an alchemist who's into healing. Or strangely appropriate to a vivisectionist...
Eww, missed that bit about being unable to take the Mutagen/Cognatagen in my PDF on the read through. They really didn't want you using those discoveries for what they were made for, huh?
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
One thing i've noticed is that this archtype stacks with both Wasteland Blightbreaker from the same book and the Chirurgeon archetypes. You still get to keep bombs too. So you could make some sort of ultimate healing alchemist with the healing domains while still having some decent combat capablities
Edit: Actually think about it now on this combo the best uses for domains are to help suplement your combat and buffing since healing is covered by the other two archtypes really well.
Dr. Dre, the Restoration subdomain is very useful for condition removal, but otherwise this archetype doesn't actually have a lot to offer an alchemical healer.
Avoron, good point about downtime uses of the archetype and that you can take Inquisitions.
I am very skeptical of the melee domain powers' ability to make up for mutagen.
Avoron wrote: Chaos (Demon): For melee fighters (aka vivisectionists). Swift action buffs are great for alchemists, because they don't interfere with your extract casting. This lets you add half your level to melee attack and damage for 3+Int rounds per day - a very nice substitute for mutagen. Aside from the super short use (4-6 rounds per day for most vivisectionists), this isn't a better damage boost than mutagen until level 6, you're losing access to feral mutagen, and it doesn't give you the defensive bonuses that mutagen does (natural armour and at high levels Dex and/or Con).
Avoron wrote: Destruction (Rage): Admit it: you've always wanted to play a vivisectionist with rage. Well, now you can - no dipping necessary. This archetype gives you not only rage, but a 3+Int/day half-level damage bonus and eventual rage powers. You get rage at 8th level, which leaves you under-buffed for quite a chunk of your career. Then it's only available for a round per level. And once you hit 12th level (4 levels after rage becomes available) greater mutagen becomes available for +6 str, +4 con, and +4 natural armour, which is better than standard rage by +2 con and +6 AC. You don't get access to rage powers with level prerequisites, which gives you access to only a handful of worthwhile powers and the powers you do get work at half your level, so superstitious caps out at +4 instead of +7 for a barbarian. That is a handy saving throw bonus - but a bomber alchemist can also benefit from improved saves so it's not a great argument for a melee build.
Avoron wrote: Anger: Another way to get rage! You get about as many rounds as the rage subdomain, and you gain the ability two levels earlier. Unfortunately, you never get any rage powers, but you do get a free attack once per day against an enemy who hit you. Earlier is good, but you're still hurting for lack of mutagen for 5 levels and in the long run I'd rather have superstition than the extra attack.
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Now, I could see these domains working (1) for a reach alchemist who wants to beef up their melee a bit more but who can still bomb effectively when the melee buffs run out or aren't worth spending (2) in a campaign where you actually do only have a couple of rounds of combat a day, especially if you get warning before a combat encounter and especially if your deity has at least one solid non-combat domain you're using regularly.
Looking at example deities/concepts...
A changeling Sacrament Alchemist of Gyronna would be neat. Racial claws, natural armour bonus, and hulking changeling's melee bonus gives you back some of what you lose with Mutagen and Feral Mutagen. With Witchborn you get a racial Int bonus. You get the Demon Domain, the Rage domain at high levels (if you expect a longer combat or one that will make use of a particular rage power like superstition), and Madness for its 1st level utility power out of combat.
Andirifkhu gives you Demon, Luck, and Trickery and is thematically appropriate for a vivisectionist, particularly if you use a kukri.
As a non-evil option... Gorum is probably your best bet. Glory is useful for social scenes, which in a social-heavy campaign makes this a better plan than mutagen. On the combat side you have Tactics (low levels), Anger inquisition (levels 6-12) and the Rage domain (levels 8+). I still don't like not having an attack bonus until level 6, but for a reach build or if you start at higher levels it's probably OK.
Rezzing this thread to point out that, while the loss of the mutagen does suck (and I agree, why did they make it a standalone discovery only to deny it to everyone?), they do get an additional, fluid discovery in exchange for Swift Alchemy, a really minor class feature. I think that power bump might help balance it some (for example, if your GM lets you take Mutagen as a discovery).
tynansdtm wrote: Rezzing this thread to point out that, while the loss of the mutagen does suck (and I agree, why did they make it a standalone discovery only to deny it to everyone?), they do get an additional, fluid discovery in exchange for Swift Alchemy, a really minor class feature. I think that power bump might help balance it some (for example, if your GM lets you take Mutagen as a discovery). When they say "He treats his alchemist level as 2 lower for the purpose of this discovery." do you take that meaning as far as qualifying for the Discovery itself or the power level of the discovery?
Not to mention the archetype has a line saying they can NEVER take Mutagen or Cognagen....
I'm eyeing Sivanah https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Sivanah
For a Kitsune SA. Some good combat and RP options.
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