Apply the feat "Weapon Finesse" to combat manoeuvre?


Rules Questions


I think you do.

But it’s all in the wording.

Now this is a question that been ask before sorry to ask once more some post say you do some say you do not. So I post with I found in one place to get to bottom of this.

If a character using finesse weapon and has the “weapon finesse feat” do they add there Dexterity bonus to perform the maneuver

Key text *** “Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects.” ***

Supporting this point of view

from
Ref http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/combat.html

Performing a Combat Maneuver: When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action. Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll). If your target is stunned, you receive a +4 bonus on your attack roll to perform a combat maneuver against it.
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. *** “Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects.”*** These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.
Now I also found this on FAQ

from http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm

Weapon Finesse: If I have this feat, can I apply my Dex bonus to my combat manoeuvre checks instead of my Strength bonus?

It depends on what combat manoeuvre you're attempting. Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat manoeuvres in which you’re actually using a weapon to perform the manoeuvre, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses apply to the roll. Therefore, if you're attempting a disarm, sunder, or trip manoeuvre, you can apply your Dex bonus instead of your Str mod on the combat manoeuvre check (assuming you're using a finessable weapon, of course). For other combat manoeuvres, you use the normal rule for determining CMB (Str instead of Dex).

The Agile Manoeuvres feat applies to all combat manoeuvres, not just disarm, sunder, and trip, so it is still a useful option for a Dex-based creature that uses combat manoeuvres.


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If you have the weapon finesse feat, and are using a weapon that is compatible with weapon finesse, then you would gain the benefits of weapon finesse (i.e. you use your dex bonus instead of your str bonus) with any combat maneuver which uses that weapon.

By default those maneuvers that always use a weapon are trip, disarm, and sunder. At the GM's discretion other maneuvers can be ruled to make use of a weapon if the explanation makes sufficient sense (notably dirty trick maneuvers) and in that case they would use your dexterity bonus for CMB instead of your strength bonus.

If you want to use your dex bonus instead of your str bonus for, say, grapple maneuvers you will need the agile maneuvers feat (but not weapon finesse, since you don't grapple with a rapier.)


See this blog post.

In addition to what was said above, note that

Combat Maneuvers and Weapon Special Features wrote:
If you’re using a weapon with the trip special feature, and you’re attempting a drag or reposition combat maneuver (Advanced Player’s Guide 321–322), you may apply the weapon’s bonuses to the roll because trip weapons are also suitable for dragging and repositioning


Thank you copy of blog post add

Tuesday, September 27, 2011
Page 199 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook says, “When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.” That last sentence implies that some weapons apply their bonuses on combat maneuver checks, and some do not. So how do you know which weapons do? The answer depends on what kind of combat maneuver you’re attempting, and in some cases what kind of weapon you’re using.
Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses (enhancement bonuses, feats such as Weapon Focus, fighter weapon training, and so on) apply to the roll.
For other maneuvers, either you’re not using a weapon at all, or the weapon is incidental to making the maneuver and its bonuses shouldn’t make you better at attempting the maneuver. For example, just because you have a +5 greatsword doesn’t mean it gives you a +5 bonus on dirty trick checks (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide 320), and just because you have a +5 dagger doesn’t mean it gives you a +5 bonus on grapple checks. Of course, the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers, such as when using a sap in a dirty trick maneuver to hit an opponent in a sensitive spot.
There is a special exception to the above rules. If you’re using a weapon with the trip special feature, and you’re attempting a drag or reposition combat maneuver (Advanced Player’s Guide 321–322), you may apply the weapon’s bonuses to the roll because trip weapons are also suitable for dragging and repositioning (this also means we don’t have to add “drag” and “reposition” weapon properties to existing weapons).
Additionally, the polearm master fighter archetype (Advanced Player’s Guide 106) has an ability called sweeping fend that allows the fighter to use any spear or polearm to make bull rush or trip maneuvers. For the bull rush, this is a specific exception that overrides the general rule of “weapon bonuses don’t apply on bull rushes.” For the trip, the text as written is redundant because anyone can already use a weapon as part of a trip attempt, so giving the polearm master this ability has no effect. This ability needs to be updated as follows.
Update: On page 106 of the Advanced Player’s Guide, Polearm Master, Sweeping Fend ability, delete the second sentence. Replace the first sentence with “At 13th level, a polearm master can use any spear or polearm to make bull rush maneuvers, though he takes a –4 penalty on combat maneuver checks when making such attempts. When using a spear or polearm to make a trip maneuver, he treats these weapons as if they had the trip weapon feature.”
Sean K Reynolds
Designer


FAQ

Quote:

It depends on what combat maneuver you're attempting. Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses apply to the roll. Therefore, if you're attempting a disarm, sunder, or trip maneuver, you can apply your Dex bonus instead of your Str mod on the combat maneuver check (assuming you're using a finessable weapon, of course). For other combat maneuvers, you use the normal rule for determining CMB (Str instead of Dex).

The Agile Maneuvers feat applies to all combat maneuvers, not just disarm, sunder, and trip, so it is still a useful option for a Dex-based creature that uses combat maneuvers.

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