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I've never played or DMed an AP, and I'm looking for a best-of-Paizo classic save-the-realm AP. Preferably low on filler encounters meant to drain party resources, but I can always take those out if need be. I'll be running it with a dramatically different ruleset, so I'm not concerned about wonky encounters that may be problematic due to this or that quirk of PF's ruleset.
If an AP is particularly sandboxy or railroady, I'm interested in that too. I consider both styles to be entirely valid, and would love to have archetypal suggestions for both!
Thanks!
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It really depends. You have:
Rise of the Runelords, a "go off and kill the evil wizard awakening after thousands of years" adventure
Shattered Star, with the "recover the pieces of a destroyed artifact and reassemble them to save the world" theme
Alternatively, there's Giantslayer, with the classic "hunt monsters, take stuff" attitude
Or even Wrath of the Righteous, "fight back the demonic horde and save the entire planet with your anime-levels of power!"
It really depends on how you define "classic." In my mind, it's RotRL, but it's dependent on your definition of "classic"
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Rise of the Runelords is pretty classic, same with Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Skull and Shackles is classic pirates, with lots of additional support.
Kingmaker is a classic king Arthur sandbox. Great if you have some stuff you want to add into, especially fey.
Reign of Winter is a classic dark fairy tale on a railroad straight to WTF!ville.
Mummy's Mask is classic Mummy stories and movies.
Wrath Of The Righteous is classic save the world from a ravenous horde, also goes up to 20th level, Mythic Adventures not needed. I'm doing this one this summer as a Suicide Squad type situation.
Iron Gods is a classic story of awesomeness. And it's part of the current humble bundle. :-)
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It really depends on how you define "classic." In my mind, it's RotRL, but it's dependent on your definition of "classic"
Well I don't have much context for a definition, just a vague sort of perception of a platonic save-the-world/realm AP. Ideally I'd like to not only run it, but use it as a sort of template for writing my own extended adventures.
I can say that I'm not a big fan of steampunk, guns, or Cthulhu-type themes.
So...peer through your computer screen, deep into the depths of my soul, discern what it is I'm looking for, and then tell me. No problem? Thanks. ;)
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Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Wrath of the Righteous, and maybe Hell's Rebels seem to fit the idea you're aiming for, based upon my Totally Reliable mind-reading powers.
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Carrion Crown visits all the classic monsters of horror. The PCs race to stop an evil cult from releasing a power that can end the world of the living. Its a bit of a railroad, but in a good sense that the PCs have plenty of agency to uncover things in their own way.
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Well I don't have much context for a definition, just a vague sort of perception of a platonic save-the-world/realm AP. Ideally I'd like to not only run it, but use it as a sort of template for writing my own extended adventures.So...peer through your computer screen, deep into the depths of my soul, discern what it is I'm looking for, and then tell me. No problem? Thanks. ;)
Age of Worms, you are looking for the Age of Worms. It's 3.5 but it is the second AP that Paizo did when they were printing Dungeon and it is a classic.
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Iron Gods has robots and lasers galore-if that's not your cuppa (I like it fine) you're best off avoiding it.
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-- And is Iron Gods any good? I can't answer that, because I've only glanced at it. However, I have the strong impression that, as Adventure Paths go, it's considered pretty midlist -- not amazing, not bad. Which would make perfect sense from Paizo's POV. They wouldn't want to put one of the weaker, less popular APs out there (they're using Humble Bundle to try to attract more customers), but neither would they put one of their most popular best sellers up (would cost them sales).
Doug M.
Disagree. Iron Gods is one of the best. And it does make sense to put the best in the Humble Bundle because it makes people say "Wow! What other adventures do they have that I can buy?" They probably chose Iron Gods because it's a couple of years old now, and they always focus on sales of the current releases over older content.
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-- And is Iron Gods any good? I can't answer that, because I've only glanced at it. However, I have the strong impression that, as Adventure Paths go, it's considered pretty midlist -- not amazing, not bad. Which would make perfect sense from Paizo's POV. They wouldn't want to put one of the weaker, less popular APs out there (they're using Humble Bundle to try to attract more customers), but neither would they put one of their most popular best sellers up (would cost them sales).
Doug M.
Iron Gods is the opposite of a "classic" or traditional fantasy adventure, not necessarily strucurily speaking, but it involves many aspects that the OP mentioned that he dislikes. So I'd say it would be a bad suggestion here.
Also, a while ago there was a survey to rate the different APs among players and GMs, and if my memory serves me well, Iron Gods finished 2nd or 3rd in that survey, so categorizing it as a mediocre AP does a disservice to it.
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Iron Gods is excellent. A small notch behind CotCT and Hell's Rebels, but right up there with all the other great APs such as RotRL or RoW.
I disagree, I think it's slightly better than both of those. :-)
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What's not classic about it.
Expedition To The Barrier Peaks is considered a classic. :-)
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-- And is Iron Gods any good? I can't answer that, because I've only glanced at it. However, I have the strong impression that, as Adventure Paths go, it's considered pretty midlist -- not amazing, not bad. Which would make perfect sense from Paizo's POV. They wouldn't want to put one of the weaker, less popular APs out there (they're using Humble Bundle to try to attract more customers), but neither would they put one of their most popular best sellers up (would cost them sales).
Doug M.
Iron Gods has some really good stuff. But it has 2 problems:
One problem is that it's essentially broken up into a trilogy - save the town, rescue the princess, fight the big bad - which is a fine set, but it just doesn't mesh together right.
The second problem is that it's not bonkers enough. Numeria is basically the last bit of HEAVY METAL, with robot barbarians fighting cyborks. And, while it does have that stuff (primarily in Book 2), it kinda moves away from that in the later volumes. Which wasn't bad, but I wanted more of the laser-toting trolls.
That being said, there's some pretty fun stuff in there. Books 1 and 2 are superb, and there's plenty of fun bits in 4 and 6.
but back to the original question: I would suggest Rise, Curse, or Hell's Rebels, which appear to be the consensus top 3 or so APs, and certainly the most "Classic" in style and feel.
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Age of Worms, you are looking for the Age of Worms. It's 3.5 but it is the second AP that Paizo did when they were printing Dungeon and it is a classic.It starts with a long -- some might say overlong -- dungeon crawl. That's classic, fair enough.
But as a practical matter, you'd have to buy... what, ten back issues of Dungeon magazine? Twelve? They're available as pdfs for a few dollars each, so it's cost-competitive with other APs. And you get a bunch of other 3.5 adventures, some of which are pretty good. However, you'd have to juggle about twice as many pdfs, and there isn't all the support stuff (artwork, pawns, flipmats, etc.) that exists for the Paizo APs.
Doug M.
I don't think juggling PDF's is an issue, it's not as if the DM needs to focus on more than 1 PDF in a given gaming session on table top and PbP even on a daily posting rate runs at the speed of crawl.
It is classic for more than just the Whispering Cairn crawl. (I did not find it too long but I did cut back on some of the length of later crawls). It has iconic villains (Kyuss & Dragotha) and battles with many iconic monsters (Dragons, Giants, Undead, etc.).
As far as pawns I think it depends on gaming style. I rarely, if ever, use miniatures when I run table top and for PbP the pawns are not really useful when creating maps (at least I have not seen a need for them).
Still you are correct that the more recent APs have much more support and the OP would have to do some work if Age of Worms were to be set on Golarion.
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Mind-reading powers: ENGAGE~!
... by which I mean, I'm going to freely discuss every AP I've ever played and/or prepped and/or run, so.
And now here we go~!
- Rise of the Runelords
- This is a "classic" adventure, in which "many parts make a single story" - in each entry of the AP, you focus on a different location/region, although it's generally expected that you keep coming back to a few set places.
1 - Notably, you start in the small town of Sandpoint (your "home" of sorts), and solve problems there.
2 - Then, after solving a murder plot and haunted house issue, are expected to become sort-of established in the big city of Magnimar (where you're treated by some of the elite as a micro-celebrity for a short time, after your successes).
3 - Then <SPOILER!> (it's unclear if this is for a couple months or a couple of years).
4&5 - Next, <SPOILER!> and onto some trackless wilderness and the hidden bad-guy place there, another hidden place.
6 - And finally into a <SPOILER!> to face the final villain (who has been sort-of-kind-of-but-not-really seen "in-person" once in each AP entry so far, except the second and third one).
- Curse of the Crimson Throne
- In this, you are most always in a central location - the city - but your major objectives and scope continue to change with each entry (more or less).
1 - At first, you're expected to get petty revenge against a minor crook who's hurt the PCs.
2 - Once you do (for unrelated reasons), the city devolves into chaos as a plague grips the populace and political upheaval turn the place into madness; additionally, you have to chase down the <SPOILER!> and determine the truth around that event, followed by a {CUTSCENE} (tm) that caps the thing off.
3 - Because of the militaristic response to the political turmoil, several criminal groups attempt to claim power over either their part of the city, or the whole thing; in order to resolve a major political problem, however, you have to find a single man lost in the city's madness.
4 - After that, for <REASONS>, you learn that you must leave the city for a time to gain <PLOT DEVICE> to fix the problems; this comes in two parts - this one involves recruiting those normally foes to allies, and overcoming impressive trials to do so.
5 - The second part out of the city (the fifth entry) involves finding the actual <MACGUFFIN> in an ancient location in order to end the bad guy.
6 - Finally, return to the city, assault the layer of the big bad, and become the heroes the town needs, whether it deserves it or not. *cough*
- Council of Thieves
1 - You begin as a bunch of ne'er do wells and common citizens devoted to your city (if not your crown), who are recruited into a group that seeks to improve the lives of the citizens (though a prominent NPC makes it sound like you're going to rebel against the country; you are not, please communicate this to the players); you must rescue your boss, and earn a good reputation around town (generally, the reputation is earned for the organization you join, not you, personally; this is not made clear in-text, but is the only way you being secret, but earning fame could work). The worst thing you resolve proves to have hints of a greater conspiracy... sort of.
2 - In order to fix a problem in your city (the Shadow Plague), you must temporarily take on an acting career, to get invited to the Mayor's home, after which, you can wait until everyone is, uh, distracted... yes... and then go poking about at your leisure. You can find the information you're looking for, but also run into your second taste of the greater conspiracy noted in the first.
3 - After you get the MacGuffin from part two, part three has you use (and finish some stuff to get other issues) it to find the even greater MacGuffin; you will find a ghost-like entity, and evidence of dark work actively opposing your goals (though, if your PCs have done their jobs right, the opponent won't know who they are opposing, exactly... this is a little vague, though).
4 - The city explodes. Sort of. Well, one part of it does. Either way, the government collapses, its various factions stuck in squabbling, and people are in danger of being entirely wiped out. Instead of fleeing, the city needs saving - and it's up to you to do it. How? By dungeon-delving! You kill a super-powerful BBEG before it can regain its power, and destroy the city and all within it. Your cover is more or less blown, as a result.
5 - With the advent of your successes, it is proven you've a furious, tenacious foe. You must evade assassination, find new allies, use the MacGuffin you got in part three, and finally free the city from the Shadow Plague.
6 - The final plot has been revealed in the bowels of the city's depths! The city has thoroughly collapsed into chaos, and the government is pretty much entirely dissolved. Now you have to find the location of your ultimate foe, shut off the ability to conjure more <SPOILER!>, and engage in an epic final confrontation!
Kingmaker
- The ultimate sandbox adventure! You must carve out a new kingdom from the wilderness.
1 - Starting as a bunch of skilled folk with your own goals, you're hired as an adventuring company by charter to quell a bandit fort that's been causing problems. After you do so, the charter is enhanced: now you're to establish a new country out of the barren wilderness! (One of four similar charters in the broader region.)
2 - Your country faces its first major challenge, as a foe who resents your place organizes and strikes with several disasters looking like they'll add to your problems!
3 - The entire town of your fellow Charter-nation, Varnhold, has vanished! As adventurers, neighbors, and fellow rulers, it is now your responsibility to investigate the disappearance, and see if you can help people!
4 - Just as things seems to be settling down, a small town on your ever-expanding border calls for help! Barbarians and monsters are going to invade! This leads to a fight against an invading monstrous people, as well as and a counter-invasion (or, perhaps, liberation!) against those who orchestrated the assault against your sovereign nation in the first place!
5 - The last thing I've played! Betrayed by your own nominal allies, you are forced into a war (whether you want one or not!) and must not only defend the things you've acquired so far, but also take the fight to your enemy!
6 - I dunno, I've not played it, yet! And I'm not GM! So... mmmyyyysssstttteeeerrrrryyyyyy~!
Serpent's Skull
- This starts off as a wilderness survival, then turns into a road trip, then into a "camp and explore the ruins" and then something else altogether!
1 - Shipwreck! You were on the way to a southern nation and suddenly your ship was destroyed by... a freak accident? No! Betrayal! Either way, the PCs and a few survivors must band together to work at survival... and take down the treacherous murderer who nearly killed them all! Survive cannibals, disease, poisonous creatures, and primal monsters, as you uncover the lost secrets of an ancient civilization long hidden below.
2 - The secrets you learned last time are more than enough to make a massive career for any adventurer! It's time to gear up to find a lost city! Experience problems in an inhabited one, as rivals attempt to stop you, so they can get there first! Try to take risks and dangerous choices to beat your foes in a race to the ancient places!
3 - You've found it, at last! A city long relegated to legend, you now have acquired it and... it's a mess of dangerous things! Keep your camp and people safe as you slowly eke out clues and try to beat any rivals that managed to arrive, too! Danger and excitement awaits around every corner, as a city waits to be tamed, and... a new challenger appears! O.O
4 - You've found a lost little half-elf... a famous former adventurer?! From her testimony and the things you've seen, you need to find all the clues to the city's past, and how it was lost to the ruins of ancient times. Find all the clues, and open up <SPOILER!>
5 - You find yourself in an even more ancient city and with degenerate inhabitants afflicted by mutancy, cursed by fiendish bloodlines, or simply a powerful malevolence against evil forces! Navigate your way among the politics, to discover something that could alter the fate of the world!
6 - You have to stop the return into a destructive power that could threaten the entire world! Gather armies from your lost city, and face down the malevolence you've uncovered, in a near-repetition of an ancient hero from so long ago!
... aaaaaaaaaaand outta time!
... next time! :D
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You're going to love the last book of Kingmaker Tacticslion, just saying. :-)
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As I said, I hadn't read it, and was working off an impression. Obviously some people like it a lot. That said, as Gratz points out, it's probably not what the OP is after (even if it's pretty interesting otherwise).
Meanwhile, I'd be interested to see a link to the survey that Gratz cites. IMS there have been several over the years, and I haven't really kept up.
Doug M.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tiiz?Adventure-Path-Survey#1
The forum has a search function...
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Ah, but it can be soooo much work to actually type in what you're looking for and press enter...
But more seriously, there was no guarantee that the survey was on Paizo, and even if it was, looking through search results can be.... messy. It's much easier to ask for the person quoting the source to provide a link, especially if there were multiple similar sources, to make sure everyone's on the same page. It's the same reason your high school teachers made you thoroughly specify the exact source you were using for your report, and not simply say, "book about science."
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As I said, I hadn't read it, and was working off an impression. Obviously some people like it a lot. That said, as Gratz points out, it's probably not what the OP is after (even if it's pretty interesting otherwise).
Meanwhile, I'd be interested to see a link to the survey that Gratz cites. IMS there have been several over the years, and I haven't really kept up.
Doug M.
The forum has a search function...
(It also has url coding tags! ;D)
So guess who's got two thumbs and got so busy, he forgot to do more reviews?!
THIS GUY~!
... but now, at least, the OP has an AP, so I don't need to! W00t~!
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Mummy's Mask and Giantslayer are two my group and I are currently playing specifically because of their reach back to "classic" themes and style.
Here's hoping you enjoy!